Dalton Departure - TEB

[GIVDrvr]

Although our ops manual allows our pilots the discretion to accept or decline the Dalton Departure, no captain in our flight department will fly it.

GV,
I am curious what specifics are cited by your collegues as reasons for declining to fly the procedure

 

[GVFlyer]

GV,
I am curious what specifics are cited by your collegues as reasons for declining to fly the procedure

1. Lost communications procedures.

2. 500 foot vertical separation from large/heavy aircraft descending into Newark.

3. Inability of ATC to provide IFR separation from other aircraft.

4. Lower than normal operating altitude for turbofan aircraft (regardless of what FAA pubs say very few pilots actually operate a turbojet) at lower than normal airspeed.

Additionally, although it hasn't happened to anyone we know at Teterboro, each of us has had an experience like a recent one we experienced departing Thermal, CA VFR where we unable to pick up an IFR clearance until hitting the Arizona state line. For us, a similar delay in getting a clearance would not be a desirable outcome in New York airspace. Regarding IFR clearances, the Dalton Departure states "Expect" which is substantively different from "Shall" or "Will".

Empirically, not accepting the Dalton Departure has not caused us any perceptible delays - some other guy will normally accept it. Regardless of Teterboro Tower's ominous tones about delays for aircraft that refuse to depart VFR, I have repeatedly been cleared out IFR on the Teterboro Five immediately following a jet flying the Dalton.


GV




~

 

[Jurasic jets]

The Dalton 19 is not published in the NOS charts however it is published in the "green AFM", it is a VFR procedure not an IFR one hence where it is located. We fly it on a regular basis, when available, we have never had any trouble getting the IFR, and lost comm in a modern era jet is not really a big concern as we have more radios and electricity than we know what to do with.....

 

[sleepy]

The Dalton 19 is not published in the NOS charts however it is published in the "green AFM", it is a VFR procedure not an IFR one hence where it is located. We fly it on a regular basis, when available, we have never had any trouble getting the IFR, and lost comm in a modern era jet is not really a big concern as we have more radios and electricity than we know what to do with.....

So true, with three generators, 2 VHF and 2 HF radios I am not really concerned about lost comm. I guess if you lost comm you could re-enter the VFR pattern at TEB and await your light gun signals to land. That would be fun.

 

[Raskal]

So true, with three generators, 2 VHF and 2 HF radios I am not really concerned about lost comm. I guess if you lost comm you could re-enter the VFR pattern at TEB and await your light gun signals to land. That would be fun.

LOL, light gun at TEB...that would rock! Do you think they even know where the thing is? I also wonder, is it possible to flash signals with an attitude?

 

[sleepy]

LOL, light gun at TEB...that would rock! Do you think they even know where the thing is? I also wonder, is it possible to flash signals with an attitude?

It would just be easier to call them on the phone.

 

[Raskal]

It would just be easier to call them on the phone.

Yeah, but I fly hawkers so if an Airnet guy called they'd put me on hold...

 

[GVFlyer]

It would just be easier to call them on the phone.

We actually did that in a GIII.

The trip was from Tampa to Panama City, Panama. About an hour out of Tampa, the guy in the right seat slid his seat back and in so doing drove an improperly installed completion screw into a major wiring harness below the floorboard. All EFIS displays, NAV and COM radios and IRS's went South immediately.

Worse yet the alerting system gave indications of things that weren't happening, such as right engine fire and left main gear down.

A reciprocal heading got the jet back to Florida, but what to do next?

The answer was descend and call 911 on a cel phone. The 911 operator patched the call to approach control for the NORDO arrival. The gear was blown down, care was taken with failed anti-skid braking on an overweight airplane and a successful outcome was achieved.

GV

 

[drinkduff77]

Yeah, but I fly hawkers so if an Airnet guy called they'd put me on hold...

LOL. this is funny because I used to fly for airnet

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Hey GV, I'm asked about the Dalton when I pick up my clearance. As I understand it, we are assigned a taxi time based on our Dalton status. Are you saying that they let you (non-Dalton) taxi out along with the rest of us, and that you get almost the same takeoff time? If so, this is the best TEB departure scam since WHITE intersection.