Dalpa files Furlough Grievance....

[Networ-King]

aca,

Nice post.......

I'll agree to disagree with the General.

Nuff said...................

 

[General Lee]

Acarpe,

I am sorry that you are furloughed and absolutely want you to come back as soon as possible. (Even Networ-king) I gladly pay the Cobra and wish I could do more. I know that the No Furlough Clause hasn't helped much and I am angry too at Delta management and wish things could get back to normal right now.
I try to stay positive and know that things can only get better---but I too (like Networ-King) watch Dalpa and hope they do the right thing for all of us. I would not vote YES for anything that would keep the furloughs out longer---and I think a lot of our pilots think the same way. Retirements are on the way(atleast 200-300 more as the Gatt rate rises), which will help and hopefully the grievance will come to fruition and 250 will also return. I also look forward to meeting you and even Networ-king, although he might slug me first.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NYRANGERS]

Hey General,

I thank you for the support as do most Delta furloughees'. All we can do is our best.

As for network-king,

I think he is the same guy who was furloughed from Indigo and has posted only negative stuff on the DALPA board. If it is the same guy it's no wonder.....he is a D.B. He can only hurt the plight of the furloughed guys. All it takes is this one D.B. and it can turn the good will of the DALPA pilots against us. Please know there are soo many greatful furloughed Delta pilots out there.

NYR TK+~150

Hopes KA gets hired at Jetblue and poisons their airline insted of ours. Although I am pretty sure they are not looking for the kind of "positve" attitude he espouses.

 

[General Lee]

NYRANGERS,

I hope all of you get back to Delta or wherever you want to be. If he dreams of Jetblue, then I hope he gets it. I can understand his frustration (sort of) and I hope there are better times for all of us ahead.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[maddog]

OK General and all the delta boys,

It is not rocket science here...The same ALPA crap that has destroyed the careers of US Airways and United pilots has reached your doorstep!!! There is no stopping this giant wave of alpa concessions. Alpa has become a laughing stock. US Airways has about 254 grievences against the company now. So grieve Dalpa grieve...ain't gonna do a thing! United alpa has told its members to expect many more furloughs (1000's more). To think you are going to be immune to this would be very niave. The company will get whatever it wants in the long run and little alpa will do nothing except GRIEVE and steal your money. D alpa will protect all those in the top 1/3 seniority...you just watch. US Airways started down this road first and United, American, Northwest, and Delta will follow in suit...

Kool-Aid still taste good?

maddog

 

[Networ-King]

Ranger,

You are absolutely right about the Indigo thing, but I never posted anything negative on the DALPA forum about them. I just answered questions that people had and told the truth. At first it was a great place to work, but the management was x- AMR and..... well there is a reason why they stayed in business for only 6 months. Go to the fractional forum and check it out...... you'll see that all I did was inform everyone of what was going on and towards the end is when all the truth came out. You'll see a progression of Indigo's demise, from positive to not sure to hopelessness. Just the facts.

D.B.? huh...... you just keep holding your breath for ALPA to save us. I hope to god that I end up wrong in this whole thing. Delta was my dream job, until our management showed their true colors. The only thing Im looking for is a good place to hang my hat and not be stepped on anymore. DALPA and Delta management have done everything, but the right thing. for their people. Read maddogs post and maybe it'll start to sink in that ALPA really cant do much when the sh!t hits the fan. Grieve baby grieve..........254 and counting for US Air huh? wow.......

As far as my "positive" attitude? You have no clue. And your right, if jetblue called, I'd head over there in a heartbeat and not think twice, because they don't treat their people like Sh!t. Its not all about the money, and after ALPA "renegotiates" with management in pay, workr rules, staffing, etc........ it'll be interesting thats for sure.

Lets just wait and see what DALPA does with FM 2 and what kind of "conditions" they base the recalls on this time.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Ranger,

You are absolutely right about the Indigo thing, but I never posted anything negative on the DALPA forum about them. I just answered questions that people had and told the truth. At first it was a great place to work, but the management was x- AMR and..... well there is a reason why they stayed in business for only 6 months. Go to the fractional forum and check it out...... you'll see that all I did was inform everyone of what was going on and towards the end is when all the truth came out. You'll see a progression of Indigo's demise, from positive to not sure to hopelessness. Just the facts.

D.B.? huh...... you just keep holding your breath for ALPA to save us. I hope to god that I end up wrong in this whole thing. Delta was my dream job, until our management showed their true colors. The only thing Im looking for is a good place to hang my hat and not be stepped on anymore. DALPA and Delta management have done everything, but the right thing. for their people. Read maddogs post and maybe it'll start to sink in that ALPA really cant do much when the sh!t hits the fan. Grieve baby grieve..........254 and counting for US Air huh? wow.......

As far as my "positive" attitude? You have no clue. And your right, if jetblue called, I'd head over there in a heartbeat and not think twice, because they don't treat their people like Sh!t. Its not all about the money, and after ALPA "renegotiates" with management in pay, workr rules, staffing, etc........ it'll be interesting thats for sure.

Lets just wait and see what DALPA does with FM 2 and what kind of "conditions" they base the recalls on this time.

Fair enough, I wish you the best and I hope to see you (and me) back at Delta soon.

I guess we will have to see what happens with the TA talks, but if we are sold down the river like the AMR guys I'll be right behind you with the charge. (love the run on sentence).

I know it sounds crazy, but I think we are going to be alright. I don't see what is happening to U, UAL and AMR happening to us. It's pretty bold of those AMR guys to offer up someone elses job to protect what they have left.

All the best and beers for everyone when the recall starts.

NYR

 

[General Lee]

Maddog,

According to our Contract Delta has to repond in 60 days and have a ruling within 90 days. We won our last furlough grievance, and stopped them at 1060. Then the war hit, and we lost 250 more. But, the grievance process worked. ALPA does not have to give a dime to Delta if they don't want to, and LEO admitted that. IF they ask for too much, our negotiators were instructed to walk away and say, "See you in May, 2005". That would start atleast 2 more years of negotiating. The way I see it, we could offer them 10-15% and some other small items like a cut in per diem etc, and then say--"We will offer this but you must give us 2 more years on our contract....take it or leave it ($200 or more million in savings per year..) Would they take $200 million a year in savings or say no? They would take it---they have a $1billion debt payment due in 2005---and they haven't gone to the other employees yet. We have the upper hand because we don't have to do anything until 2005, and then drag it on through 2007. But, we will chip in probably to help pay off the debt payment, but with something in return. We are not in any shape close to AA and UAL, and we will still be the highest paid by far. We will probably give in a little to more 70 seaters for ASA/Comair, and maybe agree to a 100 seater--but that is unclear at the moment. We shall see, and we hope Dalpa leads us in the right direction. (We HOPE) And, I don't see more furloughs on the horizon due to the fact that Dalpa just filed a grievance to get back 250 furloughs on the same day it announced that they would open the contract. That wouldn't make sense---grieving 250 to come back and then allowing more to go.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skykid]

General, I love your optimism but I have to respond to what you are pushing about early retirements. People in their 50s (that is young) who make lots of money, don't retire early. Congress, the president, or whoever is trying to address the gigantic pension deficit crisis is powerless to change this. The people you fly with who say they will retire early because the job has changed and its no fun anymore or they better leave while the leaving is good, are lying. they might leave 2 or 3 months early, but that is not going to ramp up the hiring dept. I hope I get to eat these words, but I doubt it.

 

[General Lee]

Skykid,

Most of the guys I have been talking to are leaving two to three YEARS early. (And not just because they had to fly with me) There are quite a few guys leaving that are in their early 50's---not only guys that are 59 1/2. Anyone who has more than 25 years at Delta is eligible for full retirement. Way back when they hired only guys younger than 30. That would make anyone over 55 eligible for FULL retirement. We have (or had before this started) over 1500 guys older than 55. Sure, some are ex-Western guys who need to stay in, and some Pan Am people, but there are a lot that are looking to go. The retirement seminars are apparently very hard to get into. A lot of the guys see that the future probably will not be as fruitful as the last 3 years, and their retirement is based off of their BEST 3 years----not last 3. IF someone was a 737-800 Capt for atleast 3 years, he will get 60% of his Capt pay (per month) for the rest of his life, plus his lump sum. Not bad, and a lot of guys are looking at it. Also, the guys I have talked with are sick of the TSA, and checkrides when they could be on the golf course. There might be a slight penalty to retire early, but the low Gatt rate means a larger lump sum, and the Gatt rate has NEVER been this low. I read on the Dalpa net that September might be a large retirement month, and the ATL crew lounge has lots and lots of retirement pictures, and the INTL crew lounge has more. This might help out a lot with the furloughs coming back. ( I said MIGHT)

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Networ-King]

General,

Not to get into a pissing match with you again, but I think your missing maddogs point completely. He's not saying that ALPA won't try....... 254 grievences...... they are trying, but its all for nothing. They can't do jack sh!t, isthe point he's trying to make. DALPA also didn't do a bit of good with the first grievence......... with that recall condition, which is never going to happen because of mainline downsizing. Thats why I've gotten so frustrated with ALPA. If they had an ounce of power then DALPA would not have started the negotiations UNLESS the 250 guys were brought back first. Then and ONLY then they should have started talking to management. Force Manuer........ Iraq War....... Furlough 250..... Iraq war over......no more force manuer.......... still 250 guys on the street. HHMMMMMM this is the reason why Im so bitter at ALPA. They talk the talk and thats about it........... so let em grieve all they want and lets see what kind of conditions the new arbitrator sets on the new recalls. I keep hoping that Im wrong.......... and trying to stay positive while sitting back and watching this happen time and time again for almost two years is impossible.

 

[General Lee]

Networ-King,

Believe me, I am not an ALPA lover always. I have seen some things that are ridiculous. But, there is not much we can do about what an arbitrator decides. You are right, the RPM thing the arbitrator set on the grievance we won was not very good, but it did stop the furloughs, so it was a half win. The War emergency furlough will be repealed and won, but you are right, we do not know what conditions will be set. Overall, Delta will decide when to bring back the majority of the furloughs when they want to. (Unless the arbitrator this time says differently) But, if we did not have Dalpa or they did not file grievances, we would be up $hit creek. the company would have furloughed 3000 by now and transferring everything to the regionals. That is the truth, Dalpa is a necessary evil and it is better than no protection. Atleast they filed for a grievance this time, because if they had not, I would wonder what they were planning. By filing one this time, it sort of sent a message that extra furloughs probably will not be in the cards, but who knows? I hope they recall everyone eventually.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[m80drvr]

Hey networ-king

Dude great posts. Right to the point

I cannot believe that there are so many naive pilots that think ALPA will save jobs. If Leo and the boys want less pilots they will get less pilots. period They will do it and tell alpa to file a greivence. Or better yet they will file chapter 11 and do what they want. I cannot believe that anyone thinks that Delta will be different cause Dalpa is going to greive this. I almost laughed myself out of my chair.

Hey General, Ask the 700 furlough protected USAir pilots what Alpa has done for them lately.



Hey King I'm mixin a vodka tonic as we speak where the hell are you.

DP

You know who this is

 

[General Lee]

DP,

USAir and Delta's situations are totally different. ALPA caved on yours because they HAD to. Delta is not even close to the same dire straits as your USAir was before Chap 11. We also won the last grievance, and we will ultimately win this one because the War is over, and the loads are back. Any arbitrator will see that, and Delta only has 60 says to respond and 90 total until the hearing I believe. Atleast Dalpa filed it, I was getting worried there for a bit. Naive---my a$$.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CU@OSHKOSH]

Leo

Regardless of what Dalpa is or is not trying to do, management needs to step up to the plate. Which is not going to happen. If Leo was any kind of a leader, morale would not be in the crapper. Do you think SWA, AirTran, JetBlue have happy, productive employees because they have such wonderful unions? Those airlines are doing well because their LEADERS have a clue about being leaders, and it shows in their workforce morale and in the financial bottom line.

The best thing we could do at DAL is push to replace current management. We already have a first rate pilot group, let's get the same in the management area!

IMHO