Dalpa files Furlough Grievance....

[Networ-King]

Gman,


Tisk tisk man....

You need to start rolling your happy smoke, cause the bong tokes are really fuc*ing you up man. Ease up a bit on the old brain cells man and enjoy your flying at Delta, cause it aint gonna last long.

And to the freak that said that this is only a job..............

I don't remember your profile, but it would appear from your moronic statement that you havent had to work hard at all to get where your at. There is one saying that I believe makes alot of sense.....

If you have an ounce of pride left after you got your job at a major, then you went about it the wrong way.

To alot of us its not just a job, its a dream that came true and 9/11 screwed it all up. Hey it happens.....but when people start defending organizations that keep fuc*ing their members,(Insert ALPA here) well that kind of bothers me and yes I will speak my mind.

Hey Gman,

You never did say what your position was at the all mighty best of the best airline....... TK+what?

 

[stillaboo]

General wote:

You obviously don't understand the rules here.

I did, but my brain was out to lunch when I posted. I have deleted the post b/c it was totally wrong.

-Boo!

 

[rjcap]

stillaboo,

You can post anything you want all day long.

Just keep that avatar.

Any chance you can make that thing bigger ?

 

[General Lee]

Networ-King,

I just loved your hilarious statement:

"I don't remember your profile, but it would appear from your moronic statement that you havent had to work hard at all to get where your at. There is one saying that I believe makes alot of sense....."

I am done being nice to you---dumb a$$. I tried to show that I actually care about the furloughs and your plight, and that I feel like Dalpa is trying to help get you back under these terrible circumstances. But, you are so bitter, and I am sick of being nice to you. So, I didn't work hard to get to where I am at? How do you know? I worked very hard for many years getting paid crap flying Brasilias. Oh, but you worked a lot harder--give me a break. A lot of this industry is luck, and you didn't get some with Delta. What else do you want me to do for you? I am paying for your Cobra (and I voted YES recently to extend it), and I call Dalpa often asking for updates and give suggestions. What else can I do for you? You really need to work on your networking skills, they $uck. And you know what, I probably didn't include all of the aircraft I have flown on my description on the left---unless you think I soloed in a Brasilia.


Bye Bye---General Lee TK+2900-3000 (Not exact for a reason)

 

[Heavy Set]

Networ-King,

I thought your post was over the line. I think you misread General Lee's statements - he has never been boisterous like you imply. I have been impressed with his concern for the Delta furloughees - no once can deny that he hasn't been anything but supportive for the furloughees - including yourself....

I have appreciated your funny posts in the past, but your last few have been way off base. Hey, I hope you enjoy Jetblue, but try not to slam your supporters at Delta...

Time for a slight attitude correction....


My 2 cents.

 

[Vortilon]

It IS just a job

Allright I'll bite. You are right. I didn't work hard at all to get to Delta, in fact when I was born I was naturally selected to be hired. My parents were rich and purchased my seniority number and bought me some block time in a Lear. Everything else just fell into place.

Give me a break. Yes, it was a dream come true to get hired at Delta. My wife (also born with a silver spoon entitlement to a major airline job from birth) was also hired by a major at about the same time. We both had it made and were looking into buying a large house and starting a family. We were well on our way to bringing in a quarter mill in 2002 the way things were going. Until,of course, 19 idiots decided to slit the throats of her coworkers and fly their plane into the World Trade Center. My wife used to fly the 767 and was on reserve that day and I thank God every day she wasn't called, as selfish as that is.

The point I am trying to make to you is that we were living a dream too and it all came crashing down around us. Before we knew it we were both out of work and were stuck in our crappy apartment. But were we just going to sit around and feel sorry for ourselves until a recall someday. Absolutely not. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't upset for a while but life goes on. We both got other jobs, bought a more modest house and are enjoying every moment we get to spend together. We're still working on that family thing. There are about 10,000 pilots out there with similar stories and I'm sure they are all rags to riches to rags stories.

By the time I retire, (hopefully at 60), I'll have spent 36 years in this business. Thats a good 5-8 presidencies, probably about the same amount of contract negotiations, probably have 2 more recessions coming and perhaps another furlough and maybe even a merger or three. Other than the occasional ALPA vote or national election, I'll have very little control over the external events in life that affect my job. Even so, I refuse to sit around and worry and point fingers and blame everyone for my situation.

Being furloughed is not the worst thing in the world to happen to you and you can't get so upset with all these big consipiracy theories. If you are so ungrateful for the support you get from Delta or ALPA, feel free to resign from ALPA. When you go back you can just be a non-member. You might as well resign from Delta while you are at it because I don't know how you'll be able to stand being in a cockpit with those guys...the way they turned their back on you. And why don't you just start paying the COBRA payments yourself too.

Quit feeling sorry for yourself....or do it for a little while longer, I don't care but at some point you have to move on. Who you work for or used to work for does not define you as a person nor should that dictate your hapiness. Don't sweat the small stuff....and by the way...its all small stuff.

 

[Networ-King]

General,

You need to read my post again before you start talking out of your a$$. That quote was for Vortilon and not you. He is the one that said its just a job, and I was too lazy to look at his back ground, MY BAD, I'll try to post using smaller words when it pertains to you. I appreciate the COBRA vote, but I don't use it, because my wifes health insurance kicks the sh!it out of Deltas health plan even when I was on line, but the chance of having it is still appreciated. You can stop being nice all you want, I don't care, but sooner or later you have to stop drinking the koolaid and turn to reality once in a while. This whole thing isn't against the pilots group, its against the morons fu*king up all of our careers. And if Delta didnt have a closed shop, You'd bet your a$$ i'd be a non-member. So come up for air once in a while from the koolaid pool man, being positive is one thing, but you go way over board with all this crap ALL THE TIME. Get a grip......


Vortilon,

I should have checked your background before I said what I said to you. Apperantly you knew that quote was for you........ I too have moved on and found other flying jobs, but this whole corrupt management and bullsh!t alpa crap just gets me going, and I try to stay out of it, but happy go luck here keeps posting stupid sh!t, as if a grievance means anything....... or a no furlough clause means anything........ yeah RPM's, 4 months, great first grievance, lets see what alpa can come up with now after they sell the rest of the farm. Sorry to hear that you and your wife both lost your jobs, at least mine is still working. Its still interesting that you would say that this is only a job, after working that hard to get to where you were......... I do find that interesting. Oh well.....different strokes and all that.......

 

[Heavy Set]

Networ-King,

Your response was to a "G-Man"---and that doesn't sound like Vortelon. Next time, make sure you label it correctly. It seems to me that General Lee was an advocate for your cause. You don't want to lose that, regardless of your situation.

 

[Networ-King]

Heavy Set,

I believe your mistaken sir...... re-read my post GMAN is pretty self explanitory, but I will use the proper name from now on. Go down a paragraph or two and you'll see......

"And to the freak that said this was only a job"

That was not to the general.................so all in all...... I will claify my posts a little bit better, but I still think that the general needs to come up for air from the Koolaid pool from time to time and get a good dose of reality. JMHO

 

[acarpe3448]

Hey General Lee!

Thanks again for your support for the furloughed Delta Pilots. I read these posts everyday and as you can imagine I get very pi$$ed off at some of the remarks. A few weeks back you and I decided that it was a waste of our time to carry on the RJDC, and Comair hiring Delta furloughed pilots threads. There were several pilots out there who just could not understand what they were trying to do. It's is a waste of your time, and probably gives you a headache reading surplus' posts. I think you should do the same thing here. You are wasting your time trying to convince these guys about ALPA's objectives at Delta as well as all other airline pilots they represent. Network King has his views and we have ours. I don't think we should keep baching him because he is obviously pissed off at being furloughed and just does not see where ALPA is making any difference in his life. I can relate to what he is saying, I just have not seen ALPA do anything to help out with our furlough problems, or contract negotiations at all the regionals. I would write this one off as just being frustrated over the whole thing. My furlough has hurt bad, it has wipped me out money wise, as well as emotion wise. I appreciate your positve attitude Gneral Lee, and I look forward to meeting you when we do get to come back to work. By the way, Thank You for my insurance, my family could not afford it without you guys.

 

[Networ-King]

aca,

Nice post.......

I'll agree to disagree with the General.

Nuff said...................

 

[General Lee]

Acarpe,

I am sorry that you are furloughed and absolutely want you to come back as soon as possible. (Even Networ-king) I gladly pay the Cobra and wish I could do more. I know that the No Furlough Clause hasn't helped much and I am angry too at Delta management and wish things could get back to normal right now.
I try to stay positive and know that things can only get better---but I too (like Networ-King) watch Dalpa and hope they do the right thing for all of us. I would not vote YES for anything that would keep the furloughs out longer---and I think a lot of our pilots think the same way. Retirements are on the way(atleast 200-300 more as the Gatt rate rises), which will help and hopefully the grievance will come to fruition and 250 will also return. I also look forward to meeting you and even Networ-king, although he might slug me first.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NYRANGERS]

Hey General,

I thank you for the support as do most Delta furloughees'. All we can do is our best.

As for network-king,

I think he is the same guy who was furloughed from Indigo and has posted only negative stuff on the DALPA board. If it is the same guy it's no wonder.....he is a D.B. He can only hurt the plight of the furloughed guys. All it takes is this one D.B. and it can turn the good will of the DALPA pilots against us. Please know there are soo many greatful furloughed Delta pilots out there.

NYR TK+~150

Hopes KA gets hired at Jetblue and poisons their airline insted of ours. Although I am pretty sure they are not looking for the kind of "positve" attitude he espouses.

 

[General Lee]

NYRANGERS,

I hope all of you get back to Delta or wherever you want to be. If he dreams of Jetblue, then I hope he gets it. I can understand his frustration (sort of) and I hope there are better times for all of us ahead.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[maddog]

OK General and all the delta boys,

It is not rocket science here...The same ALPA crap that has destroyed the careers of US Airways and United pilots has reached your doorstep!!! There is no stopping this giant wave of alpa concessions. Alpa has become a laughing stock. US Airways has about 254 grievences against the company now. So grieve Dalpa grieve...ain't gonna do a thing! United alpa has told its members to expect many more furloughs (1000's more). To think you are going to be immune to this would be very niave. The company will get whatever it wants in the long run and little alpa will do nothing except GRIEVE and steal your money. D alpa will protect all those in the top 1/3 seniority...you just watch. US Airways started down this road first and United, American, Northwest, and Delta will follow in suit...

Kool-Aid still taste good?

maddog

 

[Networ-King]

Ranger,

You are absolutely right about the Indigo thing, but I never posted anything negative on the DALPA forum about them. I just answered questions that people had and told the truth. At first it was a great place to work, but the management was x- AMR and..... well there is a reason why they stayed in business for only 6 months. Go to the fractional forum and check it out...... you'll see that all I did was inform everyone of what was going on and towards the end is when all the truth came out. You'll see a progression of Indigo's demise, from positive to not sure to hopelessness. Just the facts.

D.B.? huh...... you just keep holding your breath for ALPA to save us. I hope to god that I end up wrong in this whole thing. Delta was my dream job, until our management showed their true colors. The only thing Im looking for is a good place to hang my hat and not be stepped on anymore. DALPA and Delta management have done everything, but the right thing. for their people. Read maddogs post and maybe it'll start to sink in that ALPA really cant do much when the sh!t hits the fan. Grieve baby grieve..........254 and counting for US Air huh? wow.......

As far as my "positive" attitude? You have no clue. And your right, if jetblue called, I'd head over there in a heartbeat and not think twice, because they don't treat their people like Sh!t. Its not all about the money, and after ALPA "renegotiates" with management in pay, workr rules, staffing, etc........ it'll be interesting thats for sure.

Lets just wait and see what DALPA does with FM 2 and what kind of "conditions" they base the recalls on this time.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Ranger,

You are absolutely right about the Indigo thing, but I never posted anything negative on the DALPA forum about them. I just answered questions that people had and told the truth. At first it was a great place to work, but the management was x- AMR and..... well there is a reason why they stayed in business for only 6 months. Go to the fractional forum and check it out...... you'll see that all I did was inform everyone of what was going on and towards the end is when all the truth came out. You'll see a progression of Indigo's demise, from positive to not sure to hopelessness. Just the facts.

D.B.? huh...... you just keep holding your breath for ALPA to save us. I hope to god that I end up wrong in this whole thing. Delta was my dream job, until our management showed their true colors. The only thing Im looking for is a good place to hang my hat and not be stepped on anymore. DALPA and Delta management have done everything, but the right thing. for their people. Read maddogs post and maybe it'll start to sink in that ALPA really cant do much when the sh!t hits the fan. Grieve baby grieve..........254 and counting for US Air huh? wow.......

As far as my "positive" attitude? You have no clue. And your right, if jetblue called, I'd head over there in a heartbeat and not think twice, because they don't treat their people like Sh!t. Its not all about the money, and after ALPA "renegotiates" with management in pay, workr rules, staffing, etc........ it'll be interesting thats for sure.

Lets just wait and see what DALPA does with FM 2 and what kind of "conditions" they base the recalls on this time.

Fair enough, I wish you the best and I hope to see you (and me) back at Delta soon.

I guess we will have to see what happens with the TA talks, but if we are sold down the river like the AMR guys I'll be right behind you with the charge. (love the run on sentence).

I know it sounds crazy, but I think we are going to be alright. I don't see what is happening to U, UAL and AMR happening to us. It's pretty bold of those AMR guys to offer up someone elses job to protect what they have left.

All the best and beers for everyone when the recall starts.

NYR

 

[General Lee]

Maddog,

According to our Contract Delta has to repond in 60 days and have a ruling within 90 days. We won our last furlough grievance, and stopped them at 1060. Then the war hit, and we lost 250 more. But, the grievance process worked. ALPA does not have to give a dime to Delta if they don't want to, and LEO admitted that. IF they ask for too much, our negotiators were instructed to walk away and say, "See you in May, 2005". That would start atleast 2 more years of negotiating. The way I see it, we could offer them 10-15% and some other small items like a cut in per diem etc, and then say--"We will offer this but you must give us 2 more years on our contract....take it or leave it ($200 or more million in savings per year..) Would they take $200 million a year in savings or say no? They would take it---they have a $1billion debt payment due in 2005---and they haven't gone to the other employees yet. We have the upper hand because we don't have to do anything until 2005, and then drag it on through 2007. But, we will chip in probably to help pay off the debt payment, but with something in return. We are not in any shape close to AA and UAL, and we will still be the highest paid by far. We will probably give in a little to more 70 seaters for ASA/Comair, and maybe agree to a 100 seater--but that is unclear at the moment. We shall see, and we hope Dalpa leads us in the right direction. (We HOPE) And, I don't see more furloughs on the horizon due to the fact that Dalpa just filed a grievance to get back 250 furloughs on the same day it announced that they would open the contract. That wouldn't make sense---grieving 250 to come back and then allowing more to go.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[skykid]

General, I love your optimism but I have to respond to what you are pushing about early retirements. People in their 50s (that is young) who make lots of money, don't retire early. Congress, the president, or whoever is trying to address the gigantic pension deficit crisis is powerless to change this. The people you fly with who say they will retire early because the job has changed and its no fun anymore or they better leave while the leaving is good, are lying. they might leave 2 or 3 months early, but that is not going to ramp up the hiring dept. I hope I get to eat these words, but I doubt it.

 

[General Lee]

Skykid,

Most of the guys I have been talking to are leaving two to three YEARS early. (And not just because they had to fly with me) There are quite a few guys leaving that are in their early 50's---not only guys that are 59 1/2. Anyone who has more than 25 years at Delta is eligible for full retirement. Way back when they hired only guys younger than 30. That would make anyone over 55 eligible for FULL retirement. We have (or had before this started) over 1500 guys older than 55. Sure, some are ex-Western guys who need to stay in, and some Pan Am people, but there are a lot that are looking to go. The retirement seminars are apparently very hard to get into. A lot of the guys see that the future probably will not be as fruitful as the last 3 years, and their retirement is based off of their BEST 3 years----not last 3. IF someone was a 737-800 Capt for atleast 3 years, he will get 60% of his Capt pay (per month) for the rest of his life, plus his lump sum. Not bad, and a lot of guys are looking at it. Also, the guys I have talked with are sick of the TSA, and checkrides when they could be on the golf course. There might be a slight penalty to retire early, but the low Gatt rate means a larger lump sum, and the Gatt rate has NEVER been this low. I read on the Dalpa net that September might be a large retirement month, and the ATL crew lounge has lots and lots of retirement pictures, and the INTL crew lounge has more. This might help out a lot with the furloughs coming back. ( I said MIGHT)

Bye Bye--General Lee