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DAL to recall all furloughed pilots
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ilinipilot
Barely awake in Training
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jarhead
master of my domain
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Tuesday, May 4, 2004
Delta to recall laid-off pilots
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By James Pilcher
The Cincinnati Enquirer
Delta Air Lines and its pilots union have agreed that rising passenger traffic has reached a level that triggers the recall of more than 1,000 furloughed pilots, officials said Monday night.
"We will be meeting this week to determine the timing and the pace and the logistics of this," Delta spokesman John Kennedy said.
The 1,060 pilots were laid off after the Sept. 11 terror attacks sent the entire industry into a tailspin - and despite a "no furlough" clause in the contract with the Air Line Pilots Association.
An independent arbitrator subsequently decided that if passenger traffic reached a certain point - matching or exceeding pre-Sept. 11 traffic for a four-month period - pilots should be gradually recalled.
The financially ailing airline's traffic for the four months ending in February narrowly exceeded the pre-Sept. 11 level. The union Friday asked Delta to begin recalling furloughed pilots.
Delta employs nearly 8,000 pilots, including nearly 800 at the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport - the Atlanta-based airline's second-largest hub.
Kennedy would not say how long the recalls might take. But such an action could take months or years.
Meanwhile, talks between the union and management have stalled over pay cuts and concessions to address Delta's continuing multimillion-dollar losses.
---
Cox News Service contributed. E-mail [email protected]
Delta to recall laid-off pilots
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By James Pilcher
The Cincinnati Enquirer
Delta Air Lines and its pilots union have agreed that rising passenger traffic has reached a level that triggers the recall of more than 1,000 furloughed pilots, officials said Monday night.
"We will be meeting this week to determine the timing and the pace and the logistics of this," Delta spokesman John Kennedy said.
The 1,060 pilots were laid off after the Sept. 11 terror attacks sent the entire industry into a tailspin - and despite a "no furlough" clause in the contract with the Air Line Pilots Association.
An independent arbitrator subsequently decided that if passenger traffic reached a certain point - matching or exceeding pre-Sept. 11 traffic for a four-month period - pilots should be gradually recalled.
The financially ailing airline's traffic for the four months ending in February narrowly exceeded the pre-Sept. 11 level. The union Friday asked Delta to begin recalling furloughed pilots.
Delta employs nearly 8,000 pilots, including nearly 800 at the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport - the Atlanta-based airline's second-largest hub.
Kennedy would not say how long the recalls might take. But such an action could take months or years.
Meanwhile, talks between the union and management have stalled over pay cuts and concessions to address Delta's continuing multimillion-dollar losses.
---
Cox News Service contributed. E-mail [email protected]
General Lee
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This is great news, but nobody said ALL of them would be brought back at once. It would be nice, but doubtful. They are supposed to meet this week to discuss the recall rate---and it will be nice when they are all back---but it still may take awhile. I hope this forces them to the table again and hopefully we can hammer out a deal that is good for all of us.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Bye Bye--General Lee
jarhead
master of my domain
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This trigger for recall presents some very vexing problems for the airline. It (the trigger) was based on the number of pax returning to Delta flights from pre 9-11 levels. It would make more sense to me if it were based instead, upon revenue returning to the airline. With the price of tickets so depressed, the cost to run the airline is too large to sustain the current payroll, let alone take in another 1060 pilots. We will have to wait and see what kind of a recall schedule is put forward. Somehow, Delta (and all the other Legacy Carriers as well) need to figure out how to get a higher paying client back into the seats.
I don’t have the answers; I’m no airline exec. But maybe a more ‘premium’ ride, (more space between seats), full service fare to include restaurant quality meals, a super friendly staff from top to bottom at all levels of the company that the public comes in contact with. The airlines can’t do much about the hassle factor at the security areas, as that is under government control and regulation, but maybe an aggressive lobbying effort by the executives to get a “trusted traveler” program initiated where people have been pre-screened can bypass the very onerous, time consuming check in through security.
Also, along with the need to increase the revenue per ticket, major cost reductions also must take place. The airlines cannot continue in this continual loss mode year after year. They have to return to profitability if they are to survive, and there is not much time left to do that.
Below is pasted an article by the Associated Press today, where some airline CEO’s discuss this situation, among them being Gordon Bethune.
Some airlines heading for failure, CEOs say
Associated Press
May 4, 2004AIRLINES05
FORT WORTH, TEXAS -- The chief executives of three major airlines predict some carriers will fail as the industry deals with a long slump.
The CEOs of American, Continental and Southwest airlines didn't identify the likely losers nor predict when they might collapse.
But Continental CEO Gordon Bethune said ``there is no reason to have six hub-and-spoke carriers.'' Bethune said even some low-cost carriers -- who have performed better recently than traditional airlines -- could fail.
American CEO Gerard Arpey said airlines are squeezed by competition in the form of low fares and high costs.
Southwest CEO James Parker said while some carriers may fail, they could be replaced by new entrants, leaving the skies as crowded as before.
The three made their comments before the Society of American Business Editors and Writers meeting in Fort Worth, Texas.
I don’t have the answers; I’m no airline exec. But maybe a more ‘premium’ ride, (more space between seats), full service fare to include restaurant quality meals, a super friendly staff from top to bottom at all levels of the company that the public comes in contact with. The airlines can’t do much about the hassle factor at the security areas, as that is under government control and regulation, but maybe an aggressive lobbying effort by the executives to get a “trusted traveler” program initiated where people have been pre-screened can bypass the very onerous, time consuming check in through security.
Also, along with the need to increase the revenue per ticket, major cost reductions also must take place. The airlines cannot continue in this continual loss mode year after year. They have to return to profitability if they are to survive, and there is not much time left to do that.
Below is pasted an article by the Associated Press today, where some airline CEO’s discuss this situation, among them being Gordon Bethune.
Some airlines heading for failure, CEOs say
Associated Press
May 4, 2004AIRLINES05
FORT WORTH, TEXAS -- The chief executives of three major airlines predict some carriers will fail as the industry deals with a long slump.
The CEOs of American, Continental and Southwest airlines didn't identify the likely losers nor predict when they might collapse.
But Continental CEO Gordon Bethune said ``there is no reason to have six hub-and-spoke carriers.'' Bethune said even some low-cost carriers -- who have performed better recently than traditional airlines -- could fail.
American CEO Gerard Arpey said airlines are squeezed by competition in the form of low fares and high costs.
Southwest CEO James Parker said while some carriers may fail, they could be replaced by new entrants, leaving the skies as crowded as before.
The three made their comments before the Society of American Business Editors and Writers meeting in Fort Worth, Texas.
Gumbydammit
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- Feb 14, 2002
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If the DALPA can't hammer out a deal on getting all 1060 back on mainline flying SOMETHING now (meaning cutting a scope deal to fly 70/100 seaters AND give pay concessions) then you guys need your own union...you have the company over the barrell in every possible way right now. If there is no deal, everyone loses....if a deal to preserve pay and scope and leave your 1060 out on the street is made your union will be divided forever. Now is the time to get it right for both sides...
spanky2
For God, Family, Country
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ADG and other inquiring minds,
Delta had/has 2 groups of furloughed pilots.
FM I group total is 1060, began on Nov 01 due to 911 and ended in Jan 03 by order of the arbitrator, Mr Bloch, when he said the conditions for furloughing no longer existed. He then set in place the RPM trigger based on RPMs equalling or exceeding the same RPM figure prior to 9-11-01for a rolling 4 month period. This trigger has been met with the Mar 04 RPM data. Waiting to begin recall.
FM II group totalled 250 more pilots and began in Apr 03 thru Jun 03 due to Gulf War II, SARS, blah blah, blah. These pilots were recalled in Oct thru Dec 03 by the company because "it was the right thing to do" blah, blah, blah. ALPA filed a grievance and this issue is still unresolved. Many think the company recalled FM II group prior to a judgement cause they were gonna lose the fight in court...and could still lose. Issue being they should have never been furloughed and ALPA wants these piltos "made whole"... back pay, returned to seat, etc. Of the 250 pilots recalled, about 55 or so are still unassigned as of today.
Delta had/has 2 groups of furloughed pilots.
FM I group total is 1060, began on Nov 01 due to 911 and ended in Jan 03 by order of the arbitrator, Mr Bloch, when he said the conditions for furloughing no longer existed. He then set in place the RPM trigger based on RPMs equalling or exceeding the same RPM figure prior to 9-11-01for a rolling 4 month period. This trigger has been met with the Mar 04 RPM data. Waiting to begin recall.
FM II group totalled 250 more pilots and began in Apr 03 thru Jun 03 due to Gulf War II, SARS, blah blah, blah. These pilots were recalled in Oct thru Dec 03 by the company because "it was the right thing to do" blah, blah, blah. ALPA filed a grievance and this issue is still unresolved. Many think the company recalled FM II group prior to a judgement cause they were gonna lose the fight in court...and could still lose. Issue being they should have never been furloughed and ALPA wants these piltos "made whole"... back pay, returned to seat, etc. Of the 250 pilots recalled, about 55 or so are still unassigned as of today.
To Jarhead
Hey Jarhead:
I am a furloughed Delta pilot waiting on the recall. You have no idea how this industry works based on your comments. Why don't you go on over to the AOPA website where you belong - you are out of your league here .... you have no business making such comments with your inept qualifications.
A contract is a contract!!!!!!
Hey Jarhead:
I am a furloughed Delta pilot waiting on the recall. You have no idea how this industry works based on your comments. Why don't you go on over to the AOPA website where you belong - you are out of your league here .... you have no business making such comments with your inept qualifications.
A contract is a contract!!!!!!
BoilerUP
Citation style...
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2auburn,
Since I'm a youngin' trying to learn a little about this industry, why don't you educate me on how it works. I sympathize with your position as a furlough, but I don't see anything in jarhead's post that flies in the face of good common sense business practices. DAL may have the same passenger loads as before Sept. 11th, but with lower fares, they are pulling in less revenue.
You are right, a contract is a contract, and you DO have a right to be recalled. However, every single DAL stockholder should be asking the same question that jarhead did - can the company afford this, even if its contractually required? I guess we'll soon find out.
I'm glad the 1060 are coming back. I hope DALPA and mgmt can work out an agreement soon, otherwise all the 1060 may have to return to is a Chapter 11 proceeding.
Since I'm a youngin' trying to learn a little about this industry, why don't you educate me on how it works. I sympathize with your position as a furlough, but I don't see anything in jarhead's post that flies in the face of good common sense business practices. DAL may have the same passenger loads as before Sept. 11th, but with lower fares, they are pulling in less revenue.
You are right, a contract is a contract, and you DO have a right to be recalled. However, every single DAL stockholder should be asking the same question that jarhead did - can the company afford this, even if its contractually required? I guess we'll soon find out.
I'm glad the 1060 are coming back. I hope DALPA and mgmt can work out an agreement soon, otherwise all the 1060 may have to return to is a Chapter 11 proceeding.
jarhead
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Sorry 2auburn, but you have no idea of what my "qualifications" are to post on this forum. Which of my posts upset you so much? The one that had three CEO's of large airlines commenting on the airline industry, or the ones that call on my background in business, where I state that a business can't continue to take huge loses, and not reverse it and go bankrupt.
I'm afraid you're the one who has no idea of what's going on, or you just choose to be the ostrich, and bury your head in the sand, and scream "a contract is a contract" Without modifications to that contract, you'll all be on permanent furlough, as your employer will go the way of Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, et. al, and just cease to exist.
I'm afraid you're the one who has no idea of what's going on, or you just choose to be the ostrich, and bury your head in the sand, and scream "a contract is a contract" Without modifications to that contract, you'll all be on permanent furlough, as your employer will go the way of Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, et. al, and just cease to exist.
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jarhead
master of my domain
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JJJ
You are probably correct with that logic, but it wouldn't do much for gaining market share from the LCC competion out there. I could use the same logic in reverse. Reduce every fare to 10 bucks round trip to anywhere in the country. EVERYONE would fly Delta, and you'd have the market cornered. You'd need to quadruple the size of the fleet, and hire 25,000 more pilots to work at Delta. Problem is, (obviously), wages would be less than a beggars, no one would sell fuel to the company, and you'd be hard pressed to lease any aircraft and hire mx to maintain them.
The company must be able balance cost with revenue available, and somehow, the customer must be made to feel he's getting something extra from Delta vs JetBlu to spend the extra money for a ticket. That's the challenge.
You are probably correct with that logic, but it wouldn't do much for gaining market share from the LCC competion out there. I could use the same logic in reverse. Reduce every fare to 10 bucks round trip to anywhere in the country. EVERYONE would fly Delta, and you'd have the market cornered. You'd need to quadruple the size of the fleet, and hire 25,000 more pilots to work at Delta. Problem is, (obviously), wages would be less than a beggars, no one would sell fuel to the company, and you'd be hard pressed to lease any aircraft and hire mx to maintain them.
The company must be able balance cost with revenue available, and somehow, the customer must be made to feel he's getting something extra from Delta vs JetBlu to spend the extra money for a ticket. That's the challenge.
jarhead said:
Funny thing, all those carriers kept getting massive concessions from labor and they still were liquidated. As it turns out, poor management decisions are far more costly than labor. Modifications to labor contracts ultimately seem to play a small part in an airlines long term survival.
DAL's pilot costs are about $1.5B out of a total cost structure of about $14B. You could cut pilot costs in half and save about 6% in overall costs, or you can increase revenue. In this cyclical industry that seems to be happening today. CAL just reported an increased RASM of about 4.5% on just over a 13% increase in capacity for April. If DAL manages to increase it's capacity and simultateously increase it's revenue per available seat mile like CAL did than perhaps things are beginning to turn around.
Just as a side note, DAL's 1st quarter results did show over a 4% increase year over year in revenue, a reduction in unit costs of about 3.5% and DAL finished the quarter with $300M more in unrestricted cash than they had last year. DAL still posted a loss for the quarter, in large part due to voluntarily prefunding non pilot pensions to the tune of $325M, but overall the performance year over year is moving in the right direction. Most analyst are not predicting CH11 for DAL anytime soon, but obviuosly DAL isn't out of the woods yet.
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jarhead
master of my domain
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FDJ2
Taking your statements at face value, and for the sake of discussion, assume everything you state is valid.
The 'problem' being mainly caused by bad management, how does the company get rid of the inept management? Where would the company go to find management that makes good decisions? Is it the stockholders who have elected incompetent people to sit on the BOD? And has the BOD, who was put in place by the stock holders, put poor people on executive row?
My recollection of history shows me an awful large percentage of people who have run airlines (CEO's) have been scoundrels and opportunists. I am wondering why such a disproportionate percentage of airline executives seem to be such 'bad seeds' Any thoughts about that?
Taking your statements at face value, and for the sake of discussion, assume everything you state is valid.
The 'problem' being mainly caused by bad management, how does the company get rid of the inept management? Where would the company go to find management that makes good decisions? Is it the stockholders who have elected incompetent people to sit on the BOD? And has the BOD, who was put in place by the stock holders, put poor people on executive row?
My recollection of history shows me an awful large percentage of people who have run airlines (CEO's) have been scoundrels and opportunists. I am wondering why such a disproportionate percentage of airline executives seem to be such 'bad seeds' Any thoughts about that?
SoBeFlyer
Member User
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"No one person is an airline. An airline is a team. It must be friendly, courteous, cooperative, efficient, and bound as closely as a devoted family."
"The quality of Delta's service...will determine who gets the business."
- C. E. Woolman, Delta Air Lines Founder, President, & Chairman
... of course he was management, and you're not supposed to trust management and what they say, right?
"The quality of Delta's service...will determine who gets the business."
- C. E. Woolman, Delta Air Lines Founder, President, & Chairman
... of course he was management, and you're not supposed to trust management and what they say, right?
bafanguy
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I doubt C. E. Woolman ever envisioned what has become of the airline industry in the last 20 years or so. His understanding and wisdom are more suited to a time we'll never see again. I wish it could be as simple as when he ran things.
P.S. Dave Garrett was the last one you could "trust".
P.S. Dave Garrett was the last one you could "trust".
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Re: FDJ2
Two quotes from the book "Hard Landings" the epic contest for power and profits that plunged the airlines into chaos might shed some light on the airline CEO.
" The men who run the airlines of America are an extreme type; calling them men of ego would be like calling Mount McKinley a rise in the landscape. Airlines demand a single strategic vision, lest the delicate choreography of airplanes, people, timetables, and finance breakdown. The airlines attract and promote executives obsessed with control, who flourish at the center of all decision making."
"the same overweening ambition that drives so many executives to the top also assures their failure; that when executives form emotional attachments in business, whether to people, markets, or machinery, they deprive themselves of their best business judgment; that those who know an an industry best are the most likely to take for granted, and ultimately ignore, its most inviolate principles; that although the rebuke may be slow in coming, greed , in the end, is almost always punished; that economics, in short, overpowers ego."
My take on this is that it takes a certain personality type to rise to the top of the executive suite of such a fiercely competitive industry. In an ironic twist, the ambition, greed, ego and singleminded determination to win that so many top executives possess in this industry both lead to their success and may ultimately lead to their failure.
jarhead said:
Two quotes from the book "Hard Landings" the epic contest for power and profits that plunged the airlines into chaos might shed some light on the airline CEO.
" The men who run the airlines of America are an extreme type; calling them men of ego would be like calling Mount McKinley a rise in the landscape. Airlines demand a single strategic vision, lest the delicate choreography of airplanes, people, timetables, and finance breakdown. The airlines attract and promote executives obsessed with control, who flourish at the center of all decision making."
"the same overweening ambition that drives so many executives to the top also assures their failure; that when executives form emotional attachments in business, whether to people, markets, or machinery, they deprive themselves of their best business judgment; that those who know an an industry best are the most likely to take for granted, and ultimately ignore, its most inviolate principles; that although the rebuke may be slow in coming, greed , in the end, is almost always punished; that economics, in short, overpowers ego."
My take on this is that it takes a certain personality type to rise to the top of the executive suite of such a fiercely competitive industry. In an ironic twist, the ambition, greed, ego and singleminded determination to win that so many top executives possess in this industry both lead to their success and may ultimately lead to their failure.
to jarhead and boilerup
we as pilots have almost no control over management..... to make smart business decisions i.e. yield control, marketing, executive bonus, etc.
all we can do is hold them to the contract we both signed, which will in turn motivate them to make smart business decisions, return to profitibilty, and please the shareholders
if we do not hold them to a set standard all accountabilty will be lost, and the profession will never be restored!!!!!
we are just trying to protect what others have worked hard to create for me, you, or anyone else who wants a career as a MAJOR airline pilot
we as pilots have almost no control over management..... to make smart business decisions i.e. yield control, marketing, executive bonus, etc.
all we can do is hold them to the contract we both signed, which will in turn motivate them to make smart business decisions, return to profitibilty, and please the shareholders
if we do not hold them to a set standard all accountabilty will be lost, and the profession will never be restored!!!!!
we are just trying to protect what others have worked hard to create for me, you, or anyone else who wants a career as a MAJOR airline pilot
Re: to jarhead and boilerup
The problem is that the DALPA contract does NOT encourage DL to make good decisions....in fact it has just the opposite effect.
DALPA's contract with DL encouraged management to go on the massive RJ buying binge. DALPA's contract gave the 70 seaters to DCI when they should have gone to mainline. These contractual provisions are a large part of the reason so many DL guys ended up on the streets after 9/11. Their own contract made it happen.
2auburn said:
The problem is that the DALPA contract does NOT encourage DL to make good decisions....in fact it has just the opposite effect.
DALPA's contract with DL encouraged management to go on the massive RJ buying binge. DALPA's contract gave the 70 seaters to DCI when they should have gone to mainline. These contractual provisions are a large part of the reason so many DL guys ended up on the streets after 9/11. Their own contract made it happen.
MedFlyr,
At least our last contract put some limits on 70-seaters. I wish the limit was 0 but I guess that didn't happen. Its too bad the major airline pilots completely missed the boat on RJs back in the 90s. (I was more concerned with ground reference maneuvers in 172s at the time). Hopefully we've gotten better at forecasting threats to our jobs. Unfortunately with 5-7 years between adjusting contract language it sure is hard to respond effectively when something is exploited. I'm not sure why none of the majors wanted to fly these aircraft (50 seat jets)...even if the forecasts of their popularity/feesability were low. An airplane is an airplane and it brings jobs. Anyway....
I was looking through one of my "history of Delta Air Lines" books last night and saw a picture of the DC-9-10. 65 Seats. Delta bought a bunch of them and it was a mainline plane.
How'd that change in 30 years?
At least our last contract put some limits on 70-seaters. I wish the limit was 0 but I guess that didn't happen. Its too bad the major airline pilots completely missed the boat on RJs back in the 90s. (I was more concerned with ground reference maneuvers in 172s at the time). Hopefully we've gotten better at forecasting threats to our jobs. Unfortunately with 5-7 years between adjusting contract language it sure is hard to respond effectively when something is exploited. I'm not sure why none of the majors wanted to fly these aircraft (50 seat jets)...even if the forecasts of their popularity/feesability were low. An airplane is an airplane and it brings jobs. Anyway....
I was looking through one of my "history of Delta Air Lines" books last night and saw a picture of the DC-9-10. 65 Seats. Delta bought a bunch of them and it was a mainline plane.
How'd that change in 30 years?
601Pilot
Well-known member
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- Nov 29, 2001
- Posts
- 338
"How did that change?"
DAL pilots got greedy. I bet there are plenty
of DAL DC-3 pilots turning over in their graves
because the DAL pilots outsourced the flying for
up to 70 seats. It looks to me that the DAL
pilots have focused on the middle and upper tier
aircraft the last 20 years and not concerned
themselves with the lower end. This was evident
in the creation of Delta Express in the 90s.
Thanksfully, they fixed that in the next contract.
I think they would have to give up alot in order
to bring the RJ flying under the DAL pilots.
I don't think they are willing even if they could
convince management.
DAL pilots got greedy. I bet there are plenty
of DAL DC-3 pilots turning over in their graves
because the DAL pilots outsourced the flying for
up to 70 seats. It looks to me that the DAL
pilots have focused on the middle and upper tier
aircraft the last 20 years and not concerned
themselves with the lower end. This was evident
in the creation of Delta Express in the 90s.
Thanksfully, they fixed that in the next contract.
I think they would have to give up alot in order
to bring the RJ flying under the DAL pilots.
I don't think they are willing even if they could
convince management.
skydraulic
remember
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g159av8tor
Chicago Style
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"Delta Air Lines and its pilots union have agreed that rising passenger traffic has reached a level that triggers the recall of more than 1,000 furloughed pilots, officials said Monday night.
"We will be meeting this week to determine the timing and the pace and the logistics of this," Delta spokesman John Kennedy said.
The 1,060 pilots were laid off after the Sept. 11 terror attacks sent the entire industry into a tailspin - and despite a "no furlough" clause in the contract with the Air Line Pilots Association."
Somebody has to fly the 328s when ACA is released from DCI. Seventy seaters weren't good enough, but the 32-seat Dork is mighty fine. Just joking.
I've got good friends on furlough there, glad to see they'll be back sooner than later. DALPA has much clout and is respected in the ALPA community. They are the epitome of what a cohesive group can accomplish when competent chiefs lead and trusting, educated indians follow.
Tailwinds...AJR
"We will be meeting this week to determine the timing and the pace and the logistics of this," Delta spokesman John Kennedy said.
The 1,060 pilots were laid off after the Sept. 11 terror attacks sent the entire industry into a tailspin - and despite a "no furlough" clause in the contract with the Air Line Pilots Association."
Somebody has to fly the 328s when ACA is released from DCI. Seventy seaters weren't good enough, but the 32-seat Dork is mighty fine. Just joking.
I've got good friends on furlough there, glad to see they'll be back sooner than later. DALPA has much clout and is respected in the ALPA community. They are the epitome of what a cohesive group can accomplish when competent chiefs lead and trusting, educated indians follow.
Tailwinds...AJR
The book doesn't cover that...but that's a great question though. Its more about the routes & airplanes and personalities leading the company. There's a good picture of a much younger Gerald Grinstein when he was CEO of Western. A lot of parallels to today's situation. (Company not doing well, needing concessions, business plan needed tweaking) Consolidation occured after Western got their conessions and improved business plan into place. Merely history or foreshadowing? Only the shadow knows!
I think ALPA has been at DAL since the 40s but I'm not positive. I think ALPA & DAL enjoyed a pretty congenial "gentlemen's agreement" relationship until the 80's. All of the connection carriers currently in use were started in the early to late 70s and were used to feed DAL. Metros, Bandits, Saabs, Brasilias, etc. This book was written pre-RJ and talked about the MD11 being the airplane to take DL to the next Milennium. I guess technically he was right but not much past that.
The Delta group was looked upon as a bunch of push-overs by ofther ALPA groups for a long time but that's certainly not the case now. I think as a union, though, we're a fairly level headed group and have stuck a good balance and approach things in a more businesslike fasion as opposed to a militant, emotional stance. Heck, it was only a few years ago that DALPA did their first informational picketing. That was a huge deal.
I'm sure there are others more versed in DALPA/DAL history than I am....I'm just a newbie.
But I wouldn't be so quick to call the DAL guys greedy when it came to outsourcing. The entire major airline industry dropped the ball on this one. A lot more of us would be working for majors and having nicer lives if they hadn't. Just think maybe the pay would be similar to current regional rates but you'd have duty rigs, more years towards your retirement, we wouldn't be fighting over scope clauses as much, more stability, better benefits, more of a defined future....I could go on & on.
After we achieve a goal we tend to forget where we came from and what we've left behind. How many of you flying as RJ FOs keep up with the latest and greatest affecting pay and working conditions for Flight Instructors and Charter Pilots. How many of you sitting in the left seat of the CRJ cared about fighting for EMB120 payrates on your latest contract? I have plenty of friends at COEX who were happy to see the "all jet fleet" come about, later to watch COEX furlough after 911 and bring in other airlines to fly 1900s and EMB120s. Suddenly those airplanes didn't seem to shabby any more, especially if you were close to being out the door and out of a job. We all have been guilty of short-sightedness...you can call it greed but I think its more of forgetting where you came from.
I think ALPA has been at DAL since the 40s but I'm not positive. I think ALPA & DAL enjoyed a pretty congenial "gentlemen's agreement" relationship until the 80's. All of the connection carriers currently in use were started in the early to late 70s and were used to feed DAL. Metros, Bandits, Saabs, Brasilias, etc. This book was written pre-RJ and talked about the MD11 being the airplane to take DL to the next Milennium. I guess technically he was right but not much past that.
The Delta group was looked upon as a bunch of push-overs by ofther ALPA groups for a long time but that's certainly not the case now. I think as a union, though, we're a fairly level headed group and have stuck a good balance and approach things in a more businesslike fasion as opposed to a militant, emotional stance. Heck, it was only a few years ago that DALPA did their first informational picketing. That was a huge deal.
I'm sure there are others more versed in DALPA/DAL history than I am....I'm just a newbie.
But I wouldn't be so quick to call the DAL guys greedy when it came to outsourcing. The entire major airline industry dropped the ball on this one. A lot more of us would be working for majors and having nicer lives if they hadn't. Just think maybe the pay would be similar to current regional rates but you'd have duty rigs, more years towards your retirement, we wouldn't be fighting over scope clauses as much, more stability, better benefits, more of a defined future....I could go on & on.
After we achieve a goal we tend to forget where we came from and what we've left behind. How many of you flying as RJ FOs keep up with the latest and greatest affecting pay and working conditions for Flight Instructors and Charter Pilots. How many of you sitting in the left seat of the CRJ cared about fighting for EMB120 payrates on your latest contract? I have plenty of friends at COEX who were happy to see the "all jet fleet" come about, later to watch COEX furlough after 911 and bring in other airlines to fly 1900s and EMB120s. Suddenly those airplanes didn't seem to shabby any more, especially if you were close to being out the door and out of a job. We all have been guilty of short-sightedness...you can call it greed but I think its more of forgetting where you came from.
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