DAL to convert 787 to 777 orders WSJ

[ACL65PILOT]

Don't worry, ACL is on other boards telling everyone about the "good" news coming on Tuesday. You know, the news right after DAL announced "reductions". Sounds to me like he's getting a bit worried.

Worried, nope. I am quite happy with the case we presented to the arbitrators.
As for the good news, it has nothing to do with the SLI

 

[nwaredtail]

"There ISN'T ANY." That is a great quote. As an illustrious DC9 Captain, do you say that on the crackling PA to the folks "Folks, we are looking for gates, but right now THERE ISN'T ANY."

Anyway, our main deal with facing reductions was to tear apart your assertion that the fleet snapshot should be done on Jan 1st of 08, instead of our actually giving you July 1st (should have been DCC though), and that showed a LARGE reduction in your fleet and manning requirements. The fleet differences between Jan 1st and July 1st are pretty large, and they should count. Your silly assertions that people were "talking" about the merger (even though the merger itself was stopped once due to future mangement disagreements) before it was officially announced is ridiculous, and we did spend a lot of time on that topic, which will be rewarded. You know, I seem to recall a possible story RA might have told somebody about a time when he may have been sitting on the toilet back in 2002, and might have thought to himself, "NWA and Delta would be a good combo.....?" Why didn't you guys use THAT date instead of Jan 1st? You could have included your DC10s back then, and maybe the old Republic Convair propliners.... Classic. We did focus on reductions, now didn't we?


Bye Bye--General Lee

So after deflecting, diluting, avoiding, etc., you can't just answer the question?



Here it is again for you:
Name any arbitration cases that discussed parking a fleet in the future. There must be some, geez, the Zoomies spent days and tens of thousands of dollars discussing it.

P.S. Don't answer a question with a question. Chicks do that.

 

[nwaredtail]

Worried, nope. I am quite happy with the case we presented to the arbitrators.
As for the good news, it has nothing to do with the SLI

Never said anything about the news on Tuesday being about the SLI, it's more about the reductions in my opinion.

 

[Truckdriver]

Never said anything about the news on Tuesday being about the SLI, it's more about the reductions in my opinion.

Yeah, that's when we'll hear of the reduction in 50-seat flying and the shifting of more DC-9's to E-175's. Probably also get the official announcement of the 787 replacements and the parking of the 747-200's.

 

[Fly4hire]

Yeah, that's when we'll hear of the reduction in 50-seat flying and the shifting of more DC-9's to E-175's. Probably also get the official announcement of the 787 replacements and the parking of the 747-200's.

I believe that the arbitrators can only use facts as of the hearings, not after they close. I would think orders derived for the combined post merger group from another groups pre-merger orders should be credited as if they were assets of that pre-merger group, and allocated on some refined ratio (similar to the 757/767 carve out). I'm sure DALPA thinks differently. As DALPA will surely attempt continued land grabs of the NWA pre-merger positions this likely require a post merger interpretation hearing.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yeah, that's when we'll hear of the reduction in 50-seat flying and the shifting of more DC-9's to E-175's. Probably also get the official announcement of the 787 replacements and the parking of the 747-200's.

Getting warmer. It is my understanding that the bulk of the reduction will come from DCI. Not to say that there is not some mainline pull down as well.

 

[General Lee]

I believe that the arbitrators can only use facts as of the hearings, not after they close. I would think orders derived for the combined post merger group from another groups pre-merger orders should be credited as if they were assets of that pre-merger group, and allocated on some refined ratio (similar to the 757/767 carve out). I'm sure DALPA thinks differently. As DALPA will surely attempt continued land grabs of the NWA pre-merger positions this likely require a post merger interpretation hearing.

That includes the fact that Delta is just "thinking" about changing the 787s to 777LRs right now. Nothing official. So, as of right now, NWA has overstaffed it's airline planning for 787s to start arriving next July. And as far as land grabs go, your outdated computer model with slots allocated for planes that do not or will not exist is a great example of just that. And I still have questions on why you have guys who retired over 1 year ago still on your seniority list, when someone told me you get updated lists twice a year? Why would someone still be on there over a year after he retired? I can supply the transcripts if you would like.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

So after deflecting, diluting, avoiding, etc., you can't just answer the question?



Here it is again for you:
Name any arbitration cases that discussed parking a fleet in the future. There must be some, geez, the Zoomies spent days and tens of thousands of dollars discussing it.

P.S. Don't answer a question with a question. Chicks do that.

Zoomies? So, where did your guys go to school then? East Flint State?

So you don't like me answering a question with a question? You don't? Why?

Maybe there hasn't been recent arbitration ruling with what you stated. Can the arbitrators look at the mission of your DC9s and the pre DCC payscale and derive from that where they fit in the full fleet plan, and where those pilots should be placed on the overall seniority list? I think they can. You guys bring in a LARGE amount of the smallest, and lowest paying plane type in our fleet. No getting around that. Many of them will be replaced eventually by E175s or CR9s, and that has been explained to the arbitrators. They have also received confidental data on future plans (blocked out on transcripts). We'll see how it goes......... But, we made a great case of putting your DC9 in a "group of it's own."


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[hockeypilot44]

If General Lee had his way, the regionals would be flying every narrow body aircraft out there. Delta pilots shouldn't be degraded by flying small aircraft like DC-9's and Airbus 319's. The only reason why the MD-80 is still at Delta is because there's no Embraer that holds over 140 seats yet. Once that happens, the General will have his way and the 757 will be the smallest aircraft flown at Delta. I consider it widebody (by Delta's logic) because its pay was brought up to the 767.

The NWA pilots flying the 9 should be grateful to be put on Delta's list. Accept your furlough because someday you will be able to return to the Delta that only flies large aircraft.

 

[General Lee]

If General Lee had his way, the regionals would be flying every narrow body aircraft out there. Delta pilots shouldn't be degraded by flying small aircraft like DC-9's and Airbus 319's. The only reason why the MD-80 is still at Delta is because there's no Embraer that holds over 140 seats yet. Once that happens, the General will have his way and the 757 will be the smallest aircraft flown at Delta. I consider it widebody (by Delta's logic) because its pay was brought up to the 767.

I don't want the regionals to fly any 100 seater out there. Nothing over the current 76 seat limit. No way. I can see that as of right now we do not have a replacement, and we all know the DC9s are waning in fleet numbers. I hope we do get orders for 100 seaters, and that will be looked at in the near future supposedly.

As far as the 757 goes, your own pay on those planes was brought up to our 767 rates too. YOU ARE WELCOME, since you tend to think that the 757 is a "non super duper premium" aircraft. The shear number of larger planes with larger pay rates that we bring the table compared to the shear number of smaller, lower paying planes you bring is amazing. You really need to be thankful, since your prospects of more variety with routes and higher pay has been enhanced by this merger. Heck, you just got a nice raise, and we did not. What has been our upside? A new NRT hub. You have a smaller fleet, with smaller planes overall that mostly pay less. And to top it off, you now have a good looking uniform that demands respect and admiration. You will look FANTASTIC.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[propdog]

Yeah, that's when we'll hear of the reduction in 50-seat flying and the shifting of more DC-9's to E-175's. Probably also get the official announcement of the 787 replacements and the parking of the 747-200's.

The 747-200 is not going to disappear anytime soon. They might park a few more but we just signed a new contract with the US military to fly military freight to the middle east and back. This is in addition to the military passenger flying. They are already planning around 75 missions for 2009 for just freight flying.

 

[nwaredtail]

Zoomies? So, where did your guys go to school then? East Flint State?

So you don't like me answering a question with a question? You don't? Why?

Maybe there hasn't been recent arbitration ruling with what you stated. Can the arbitrators look at the mission of your DC9s and the pre DCC payscale and derive from that where they fit in the full fleet plan, and where those pilots should be placed on the overall seniority list? I think they can. You guys bring in a LARGE amount of the smallest, and lowest paying plane type in our fleet. No getting around that. Many of them will be replaced eventually by E175s or CR9s, and that has been explained to the arbitrators. They have also received confidental data on future plans (blocked out on transcripts). We'll see how it goes......... But, we made a great case of putting your DC9 in a "group of it's own."


Bye Bye--General Lee

Thought so......Just can't answer a simple question. Too bad you weren't one of the witness'

 

[licorice]

Hey Fly4hire, what did that take, 5 posts. too funny. These guys are way too easy.

You started this with your derisive "take" on DAL's attitude toward your 787 orders, what did you expect? Too funny indeed, 787 orders likely to be cancelled in favor of 777 orders....hilarious!!!!!....uncontrollable laughter!......hahahahaha.!...nyuck,nyuck,nyuck,nyuck....(ala Curley of the 3 stooges). Unlike the 787, with the future 777 orders there may be a little "difficulty" determining which pilot group they "belong to". Yeah, nwaredtail, we are way to easy, and you are sooooo sinisterly cunning and clever that you've found a way in your own twisted mind to laugh at us. But since the 787 was entirely "your" airplane, kinda tough to find a way to laugh with us on this one...

 

[nwaredtail]

You started this with your derisive "take" on DAL's attitude toward your 787 orders, what did you expect? Too funny indeed, 787 orders likely to be cancelled in favor of 777 orders....hilarious!!!!!....uncontrollable laughter!......hahahahaha.!...nyuck,nyuck,nyuck,nyuck....(ala Curley of the 3 stooges). Unlike the 787, with the future 777 orders there may be a little "difficulty" determining which pilot group they "belong to". Yeah, nwaredtail, we are way to easy, and you are sooooo sinisterly cunning and clever that you've found a way in your own twisted mind to laugh at us. But since the 787 was entirely "your" airplane, kinda tough to find a way to laugh with us on this one...

Easy big fella, just teasin y'all a bit. Put down the computer and get back to " This week in NASCAR". (just teasing you again, relax)

BTW, historically, if orders are converted and they were slotted for one group, they stay with that group. If it's a new order, they get divided up. Not that history has anything to do with this merger.

Love ya lots..

 

[licorice]

Easy big fella, just teasin y'all a bit. Put down the computer and get back to " This week in NASCAR". (just teasing you again, relax)

BTW, historically, if orders are converted and they were slotted for one group, they stay with that group. If it's a new order, they get divided up. Not that history has anything to do with this merger.

Love ya lots..

Ok, but put some smiley faces in there somewhere next time. BTW, what driver d'you like? Them NASCAR sumbitches is good, ain't they?

 

[nwaredtail]

Ok, but put some smiley faces in there somewhere next time. BTW, what driver d'you like? Them NASCAR sumbitches is good, ain't they?

I kinda like the way Ricky Rudd flows with a thick southern accent

was just for you

 

[nwaredtail]

Even though I give General Dip$hit a hard time (and everyone knows he deserves it)I know, deep down, he knows NWA was the ABSOLUTE best merger partner for DAL.


He knows NWA always made more $$ than DAL, even though we were 1/3 smaller, had older airplanes, and the terrible hubs. While some say, "you should be glad you are getting DAL's staffing for the Int'l routes", others may see this as, "why is NWA so much more efficient than DAL?" Depends on where you sit.

He knows NWA's huge cash position will insure DAL is the last man standing if things get ugly, which they probably will.

He knows the "old" DC-9's have a CSM in the .06 range with gas this low. Translation. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

He also knows that if NWA parks airplanes, pilots from both groups will get furloughed and move backwards. I know he doesn't want that.

So, as much as some on this board would like to slam and think it's appropriate for the NWA guys to be thankful, my opinion is it goes both ways, kinda like Mr. Mike's Apartment :0

BTW, wore my new Delta baseball hat to the gym today, my AA buddies were very jealous.

 

[MJ42]

Worried, nope. I am quite happy with the case we presented to the arbitrators.
As for the good news, it has nothing to do with the SLI

Just wondering what your thoughts are on the "Delta Daily"? Every day it ends with some bad news. Today was about the recession, past days included decreasing demand and other negative news. Is this a subtle sign, setting us up for the big "F" because of economic conditions(not merger related furloughs)after 08 Dec? Or am I reading too much into the email? Please tell me your good news involves RJ cuts like we have anticipated...

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It is setting up the employee groups for the need front line cuts. Most pilots do not read that, they know this. It is posted in many break rooms.
That is not to say that we will not furlough. We are just not there yet. I have not heard the F word tossed around, and it be serious talk.

 

[FBN0223]

No "F" word yet. Probably due to NWA's higher than normal attrition.