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DAL to convert 787 to 777 orders WSJ

jetflier

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Corp., plans to seek significant changes to aircraft orders that both carriers had placed individually with Boeing Co., according to people familiar with Delta's plans. View Full Image



Associated PressDelta has yet to ask Boeing officially to change its orders for new planes.






Most notably, the company is likely to scale back a Northwest order for Boeing's new, but delayed, 787 Dreamliner, and ask the manufacturer to expand a Delta order for the 777-200LR, a long-range aircraft that carries at least 50 more passengers and would better enable the combined carrier to continue pursuing Delta's strategy to shift a greater percentage of its flights to long overseas routes.
No final decisions have been made regarding new aircraft, the people said, and Delta has yet to officially ask Boeing to alter its order book.
For Boeing, a change in Delta orders is unlikely to disrupt its manufacturing schedule or hurt its bottom line because other customers are queued up behind Northwest for 787s, and the manufacturer is happy to expand its order book for the more expensive 777-200LR, people familiar with the situation said.
At present, Northwest, which had been the U.S. launch customer for the Dreamliner, has a firm order for 18 787 planes and options for many more. Delta's current order for 777-200LRs, two of which were delivered this year, foresees delivery of another three in 2009 and an additional five in following years.
The planned order revisions are part of Delta's effort to make sure that its network, as it melds its own routes with those of Northwest, has the right planes in terms of size and cost of operation for both its domestic flights and routes serving Europe, Africa, Asia and Latin America. The $2.6 billion acquisition of Northwest, completed in October, made Atlanta-based Delta the world's biggest carrier as measured by passenger traffic.
Delta declined to comment on specific order plans, but said that the long-term needs of a merged fleet would differ from those of each airline individually. "It comes down to the flexibility of the combined fleet and how we match capacity into the markets we serve," said Betsy Talton, a Delta spokeswoman. "Orders get adjusted depending on what's happening with the business."
A Boeing spokeswoman said the company remains in regular contact with its customers to make sure their pending orders match their needs. She declined to comment about specific dealings with any airline.
The people familiar with Delta's plans said the airline still sees a use for the 787, but the merged carriers already have planes -- such as the Airbus A330 aircraft flown by Northwest and Delta's Boeing 767s -- that could easily serve the same routes and meet the same capacity needs for several years.
Delta still plans eventually to take a "significant number" of 787s, one of these people said, but airline officials are more inclined to take a slightly larger version of the 787 that Boeing is developing for delivery in 2012.
Far more important to Delta's future route strategy is the 777-200LR, the longest-range model of the 777 family and a plane that can help it serve more distant destinations like Shanghai and Johannesburg, South Africa, that the airline has been adding to its network recently.
Delta would become one of the first 787 customers to offer to back away from coveted early delivery slots for the jetliner. Despite continuing production snags, Boeing has booked 895 orders for the twin-engine, fuel-efficient aircraft. At average list prices and without the discounts given to major airlines on many big aircraft orders, a 787 sells for $178.5 million and a 777-200LR costs about $243 million.
Delta is one of three U.S. airlines that earlier this decade signed preferential customer agreements with Boeing, ensuring lower prices and priority in order and delivery schedules in exchange for big order volumes.
The company has said recently that the complexity of its merged fleet and route network will lead it to consider aircraft from Airbus and other manufacturers, too. Before its merger with Northwest, Delta flew only aircraft made by Boeing companies.
 

Fly4hire

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Knowing RA's history, the delays of the NWA 787 positions will be leveraged to maximum effectiveness for the airline. We'll probably see Airbus and Boeing in a cage match to see who can get a deal with DAL, and end up with some additional 330's (350's?) and 777's as placeholder consolation orders and still get a boat load of 787's eventually.

Despite the hyperbole used over the 787 delays in SLI, the aircraft is a industry game changer, and RA is smart enough not to give up first in line positions (and the NWA options are also first in line) - I thinks its "what can we get for what this" in the mean time"
 
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nwaredtail

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Knowing RA's history, the delays of the NWA 787 positions will be leveraged to maximum effectiveness for the airline. We'll probably see Airbus and Boeing in a cage match to see who can get a deal with DAL, and end up with some additional 330's (350's?) and 777's as placeholder consolation orders and still get a boat load of 787's eventually.

Despite the hyperbole used over the 787 delays in SLI, the aircraft is a industry game changer, and RA is smart enough not to give up first in line positions (and the NWA options are also first in line) - I thinks its "what can we get for what this" in the mean time"

"Um, Mr. arbitrator, we know that we wanted NWA to get no credit for the 787 orders, but now that they have been converted, let's just go ahead and fence those of for the DAL pilots. I mean the 787 hasn't even flown yet and we all know about the production line, aircraft on the assembly line, Boeings reputation for crappy planes. This is the ONLY fair answer."
 

ACL65PILOT

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Now this comes as such a complete surprise. (TIC)

Haven't I been saying this for some time? Funny thing is they are going to convert them to the 777-300. A 744 REPLACEMENT.Same thing the 787 was bought for.
 

jetjockey#1

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"Um, Mr. arbitrator, we know that we wanted NWA to get no credit for the 787 orders, but now that they have been converted, let's just go ahead and fence those of for the DAL pilots. I mean the 787 hasn't even flown yet and we all know about the production line, aircraft on the assembly line, Boeings reputation for crappy planes. This is the ONLY fair answer."

See, we can all get along. Oh yeah, go ahead and fence the whales and 9's also....LOL. Seriously this is good news for everybody. The 777LR requires tw0 Cpt and two FOs, so that means a lot jobs, movement, etc.. with each one of them.

Let me be specific, for those of you. The 777LR does not require two Cpt and Fos to be flown, but the missions for which they are used required two of each. There, happy?
 

ACL65PILOT

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I would also expect them to "keep" their 787 slots by ordering or making options for the 900.
 

Sinca3

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As expected....now what does this mean for former NWA pilots if they don't get the 787's?
Who fills the slots of these new a/c that DAL already has on property?
 

nwaf16dude

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As expected....now what does this mean for former NWA pilots if they don't get the 787's?
Who fills the slots of these new a/c that DAL already has on property?

That's the kind of question that kept arbitrators employed at NWA for the past 20 years.
 

Diesel-9

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The original 26 aircraft that are financed already include some -900's. Good negotiating card to get some 777's near term because of delays. Still receive a good fleet of 787's (30-40) and possibly sell 10-20 delivery positions for $10-20 million each above original cost. And these are replacemarnt aircraft! (DC-9) :-0
 

Scope out RJ's

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"Um, Mr. arbitrator, we know that we wanted NWA to get no credit for the 787 orders, but now that they have been converted, let's just go ahead and fence those of for the DAL pilots. I mean the 787 hasn't even flown yet and we all know about the production line, aircraft on the assembly line, Boeings reputation for crappy planes. This is the ONLY fair answer."

Orders change......Company plans change......Profits go up and down.......
nwaredtail will always be a ****************************** bag!
 

Truckdriver

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"Um, Mr. arbitrator, we know that we wanted NWA to get no credit for the 787 orders

And this is precisely why we didn't want you to get credit for them because they are NOT something you are bringing into this merger if they are not going to be around for another 5 years. Everyone has seen this one coming for months except the NWA "experts". The big question is how will Bloch account for replacement aircraft since it looks like some of the 777's will now be replacement aircraft. Maybe 1 for 1 entitlement to those additional 777 positions. :) We'll know next week I guess.
 

General Lee

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"Um, Mr. arbitrator, we know that we wanted NWA to get no credit for the 787 orders, but now that they have been converted, let's just go ahead and fence those of for the DAL pilots. I mean the 787 hasn't even flown yet and we all know about the production line, aircraft on the assembly line, Boeings reputation for crappy planes. This is the ONLY fair answer."

Don't worry, you guys said you MIGHT bring 30 DC9s out of the desert. That should cover 18 787 slots worth of pilots......right? You are overstaffed waiting for those 787s anyway, so maybe those DC9s will do the trick, if they come out of the desert...


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

General Lee

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Now this comes as such a complete surprise. (TIC)

Haven't I been saying this for some time? Funny thing is they are going to convert them to the 777-300. A 744 REPLACEMENT.Same thing the 787 was bought for.

So, where will the 742s go? Connie and Evergreen are starting to park their's right now. I guess the NWA guys think we will continue to operate them forever.......riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Let's hope Bloch and company can see the light, we did state at least 10 were going to go away sooner than later. It's all about what you bring to the table.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 

nwaredtail

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Don't worry, you guys said you MIGHT bring 30 DC9s out of the desert. That should cover 18 787 slots worth of pilots......right? You are overstaffed waiting for those 787s anyway, so maybe those DC9s will do the trick, if they come out of the desert...


Bye Bye--General Lee

Hey Fly4hire, what did that take, 5 posts. too funny. These guys are way too easy.
 

nwaredtail

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So, where will the 742s go? Connie and Evergreen are starting to park their's right now. I guess the NWA guys think we will continue to operate them forever.......riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Let's hope Bloch and company can see the light, we did state at least 10 were going to go away sooner than later. It's all about what you bring to the table.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Hey Einstein, please give me the arbitrated cases that discussed what "might" happen to a fleet in regards to parking them. I'll try to make it easy for you, there isn't any. Lots of awards dealing with orders, but not reductions. Glad Y'all spent all that time on that though.
 

General Lee

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Hey Fly4hire, what did that take, 5 posts. too funny. These guys are way too easy.

Hey ACL65, check out these NWA guys, they are CRAZY! See, only 2 posts by me, and THEY TURN CRAZY. HAHAHAHAHA. (??) Isn't that funny ACL?

Bye Bye--General Lee
 

nwaredtail

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Hey ACL65, check out these NWA guys, they are CRAZY! See, only 2 posts by me, and THEY TURN CRAZY. HAHAHAHAHA. (??) Isn't that funny ACL?

Bye Bye--General Lee

Don't worry, ACL is on other boards telling everyone about the "good" news coming on Tuesday. You know, the news right after DAL announced "reductions". Sounds to me like he's getting a bit worried.
 

General Lee

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Hey Einstein, please give me the arbitrated cases that discussed what "might" happen to a fleet in regards to parking them. I'll try to make it easy for you, there isn't any. Lots of awards dealing with orders, but not reductions. Glad Y'all spent all that time on that though.


"There ISN'T ANY." That is a great quote. As an illustrious DC9 Captain, do you say that on the crackling PA to the folks "Folks, we are looking for gates, but right now THERE ISN'T ANY."

Anyway, our main deal with facing reductions was to tear apart your assertion that the fleet snapshot should be done on Jan 1st of 08, instead of our actually giving you July 1st (should have been DCC though), and that showed a LARGE reduction in your fleet and manning requirements. The fleet differences between Jan 1st and July 1st are pretty large, and they should count. Your silly assertions that people were "talking" about the merger (even though the merger itself was stopped once due to future mangement disagreements) before it was officially announced is ridiculous, and we did spend a lot of time on that topic, which will be rewarded. You know, I seem to recall a possible story RA might have told somebody about a time when he may have been sitting on the toilet back in 2002, and might have thought to himself, "NWA and Delta would be a good combo.....?" Why didn't you guys use THAT date instead of Jan 1st? You could have included your DC10s back then, and maybe the old Republic Convair propliners.... Classic. We did focus on reductions, now didn't we?


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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