DAL pilot

[Caveman]

1. The Comair MEC DID NOT refuse preferential hiring for DAL furloughees. All DAL and ALPA furloughees are welcome.

2. The Comair MEC DOES NOT have any control over Comair management's policy of requiring furloughees to resign their seniority. It is NOT our MEC's policy, it is MANAGEMENT'S policy.

All this crap about our MEC refusing to hire DAL furloughees is pure political BS. It simply isn't the truth. The Comair MEC and now all Comair pilots are being vilified for something they can't control just so that the DAL MEC can cover its' a$$. The DAL MEC can't get DAL/Comair management to change the seniority resignation policy so they redirect their failure and try to blame it on the Comair pilots.

 

[Freight Dog]

Freight DOG,

I have rebutted everything you have said and you still use the same ol line. <snip the b.s.>

<SNIP the b.s.>

<SNIP>I had to deal with bull headed idiots like you all the time.

IT WAS NOT ABOUT PREFF HIREING!!! IT WAS A POLITICAL MOVE!!!

Nice rebuttal.

Caveman, when you say that DAL MEC had a hard time to press Delta/Comair management to hire furloughees, you didn't mention ASA. Are they not another Delta's WO?

 

[skyslug]

ASA and Comair...both wholey owned...2 seperate managements which is why there are 2 seperate policies. Being a Wholey owned doesn't mean we have the same policies. It would be nice, it would make sense, but it just isn't so at this time. I suspect that's Delta's doing (management).

 

[General Lee]

Caveman,

Ok, so you think this is all a conspiracy by the evil Delta MEC to cover his own a$$ from all of the mistakes he has made. Hmmmm. And, you also believe Saddom Hussein doesn't have any biological weapons too, right? Come on. Your MEC met with our MEC and stated he wanted the end to scope, unlimited 70 seaters, and the right to fly 90 seaters---and then maybe he would think about allowing our guys to fly there with recall rights. Fred Butrell---the leader of DCI---stated in an Atlanta Journal Constitution article that he was happy that ASA would allow Delta pilots to go there with recall rights because "they were looking for good, qualified pilots---and they were happy to get furloughed Delta pilots." When he was asked why Comair wasn't doing the same he replied, "Well, I guess the Comair MEC has more influence over there with his management." The President of DCI stated that---on the record. Lawson is digging a whole for all of you guys. I can't believe you can't see this. The fact is that the top 100 guys at Comair are too proud to be MD88 FO's someday, even though they would make more than what they are making now. They want things that would lead to the shrinking of mainline (unlimited 70 seaters, and 90 seaters)--and the high paying jobs at mainline. Do you ever want to make more money? It would have been nice to have had preferential hiring, like ASA has now, so you could have a better shot than most at getting one of those HIGH paying jobs. You see, you have to have a certian amount of BIG planes at mainline to gauruntee that you can start earning those big bucks. If we had unlimited 70 seaters, a lot of the 737's or maybe new A318's or 737-600's (or whatever we eventually get) might not be necessary----because we have a flood of cheaper labor flying the 70 seater at a preset lower rate. Management would be jumping up and down, laughing all the way to the bank with huge bonuses, while you and I would never see the higher wages until one year before we retire----into a trailer home on the east side of El Paso. Lawson is not looking out for you as much as he is looking out for himself and his cronies. I just can't see Lawson doing a preflight on an MD88 in MSP at 5AM----and neither can he, which is dangerous for all of you that want to eventualy get on with Delta when everything turns around. And to top all of this off, we still feel like this is a slap in the face after all the checks we wrote for you during your strike. You guys can't even see that we were supporting you during your time of need, and now you can't help our pilots now. None of you can actually admit that. You claim that all our pilots make soooo much money, well guess what? The furloughed people were NOT making the big bucks and most are certainly not now. Thanks for the help.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Bill Mostelar]

QUOTE]Originally posted by AFELLOWAVIATOR
OK Bill, I'll play your game.

[Exactly how would this grand preff. hiring plan work?]

The discussion was about willingness to design a reciprical program (as was the meeting). I'm not going to waste either one of our brain cells discussing theoritical bs, as we are not the crafters of the policy.


[Why is it the Delta MEC refuses to work with our MEC on combatting the whupsaw? The only time we can meet with them is when they need something from us. This is why our MEC felt they needed to bring up our concerns during the meeting. The Delta MEC basically ignores them all other times.]

An opinion based on assumptions. Neither one of us knows what kind of dialogue actually exists. Besides, the DAL MEC is busy working for it's pilots (as you say). What else is really relevant than this topic? Safety? I think they do work together in other projects when needed.


[I do not think a preff. hiring plan was really what your MEC wanted. It was political and meant to get the focus off there short comings. Seemed to work, didn't it? Answer this. Why do you think the Delta MEC felt they had to go public with the planned meeting with our MEC weeks before it happened?] And on the same note, you NEVER heard about a meeting planned with the ASA MEC????? Sounds kinda political? You betcha!]

Listen, you're getting hot headed again. It was public because a resolution was passed to explore the issue. There was no issue for ASA (and subsequent public announcement), because ASA stepped up to the plate from the get-go. They were ready and willing to help in a time of need - plus they as a corporation and MEC saw the benefits ( my previous points). Regardless of who crafted the idea, all supported it - hence the thread we are debating (not details).

No one is threatening anyone. WB simply stated he'd make a public announcement about your unwillingness to cooperate in a mutual pref hiring program. How about that ill attempted PID? How about blindsiding us with that one? Another example of your pilots' humility, brotherhood, and ideas to work together.


Your ideas are just full of emotion, and the reasons you state are egocentric. As I said, you (collectively) are behaving exactly in the way which you condemn. About like a proclaimed pacifist defending he fought because he felt the other party threw the first punch....makes no sense.

I have no more time to debate silly EGO BS. Regardless of the past (PID, Strke, Whipsaw whatever), we had an opportunity of an in-road and for various ego driven reasons, conditional excuses were made.

I am not denying the fact that the DAL MEC is not perfect - far from. But thus far, your only argument is ego driven bull crud - the very behavior you condemn, accuse, and perpetuate. Using "starve em out" strike logic is not the way to make inter-ALPA progress. JC Cory et al may have outgrown their usefullness. Many leaders are good for some missions, few (if any) are good for all.

Train Hard!

B

 

[CMRJetDriver]

Gentlemen! You've had a hell of a day.

Please allow me to throw a couple of cents into this beat to death subject. I'm an ex-Midway pilot hired by Comair last February. I'll type this real slow for the benefit of everyone. Comair didn't require me to resign any seniority number with Midway. Even though Midway sent them the paperwork saying I was a furloughed pilot with recall rights. Every Midway pilot here has been sent recall letters in the past few weeks. So even if some pilots were asked to resign seniority, it appears that the HR Form 101 Resignation of Seniority doesn't make it past the mailroom.

Do Comair pilots want to hire furloughed Delta pilots? Without a doubt yes. When Midway furloughed in 2001 Comair sent a jet to Raleigh and flew up anybody who wanted to come. Maybe the pilot group should petition our MEC to publicly support the idea. But the real question is what is preferential hiring? It should mean that Comair's training department calls Delta in Atlanta and says we need 20 pilots to start training on Monday. Send 'em on up to CVG. Then when all the DAL pilots are back in the big iron we get treated the same way. If you're just talking about prefential hiring consideration at the interview it really doesn't mean a thing. You'll just be one of the lucky 200 who make it to the interview out of the 12,000 apps on file and you might get some consideration because our MECs got together and had a group hug. If that's the case DAL pilots will apply to Comair just like we have to and if they're one of the 200 who get interviews out of the 12,000 apps we have on file they might get some consideration as well.

It is amazing to me the rumblings of a few folks on here give the appearance that DAL, ASA and Comair are in total chaos. I have a two leg commute on Delta every week and it is always a pleasant experience. DAL employees ride our aircraft everyday and they have always been great. Everyone knows that these decisions are being made in Atlanta and one group is not to be blamed for another's misfortunes. You cannot blame, however, the different groups of employees trying to look out for one another. I fully expect my MEC to represent our interest as Comair pilots and I know the DAL MEC is trying to take care of their pilots. I just don't see the bitterness that is being expressed here in some of these posts.

Since I'm still on probation here I've just kinda been neutral on the RJDC. I will say that ALPA does have some serious issues that need to be resolved. As bad as some folks think they have it here, most of our slots at Midway are not available because they are giving them to furloughed USAirways pilots. That's right, ALPA pilots who never even worked for Midway are getting the positions at the expense of fellow furloughed ALPA members. So if you don't think ALPA needs some fine tuning, well we'll just have to agree to disagree. I for one am keeping the Comair job.

We now welcome Northwest and Continental, DALs latest code share partners, and one thing is for sure. Until brand flying means anything in Atlanta all of the employee groups will have to mind the store.

 

[darling pretty]

I find it very interesting that none of you responded to the US Airways Express pilots who has far more experience with "preferential hiring" than any of us.

I suppose no one will respond to ex-Midway guys who see their jobs going to US Airway pilots.

CMRJetDriver- I think the reason you never had to resign your seniority number is that no one ever believed Midway would survive, yet alone recall their pilots.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

GENERAL LEE,

Read your post and tell me about the threats again...

They not only threatened to "go public", as if that was not shameful and devisive enough, but he also threatened to attempt a take over of ALL of our aircraft.


Your take on demands our MEC made are also a lie, but you never let that bother you before, did it? They wanted to DISCUSS these areas, and you know why??? BECAUSE THAT IS THE JOB OF AN MEC...To seek resolutions to problems that the pilot group they represent face...

Restrictions on our jobs IS a huge problem we face. What is so rediculous, is the restrictions are coming from fellow union members within the same company...


Our ex Midway pilots know all too well how ALPA can screw the small jet pilots. Midway is up and running again, but instead of the furloughed Midway pilots being recalled, only half will be recalled because ALPA has negotiated half of their jobs away to who? Other ALPA pilots.

So you see, we have to be on guard all the time, and your mec knows our mec will work for us at all times.

Read your take on ASA again, you spun that one out of control...plaeeeze...

The ASA mec had absolutely nothing to do with that decision, and you know it.

For the life of me, I can't understand why you have to get on this board and lie and misrepresent the facts all the time. I would assume it is because you feel a need to cover up the shameful and unethical behavior of you mec, or it is simply that you are a liar, and liars tend to do what? Lie.

Please try to get the facts straight next time.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Oh yes, Fred!!! Sounds like he is extremely happy with the present situatiion. Sounds kinda like a wedge, does it not? The wedge created by having three pilot groupd on the same property.

Fred and company do not like our mec much, do they? I wonder why? Does 750,000.000 dollars ring a bell????

They do not like our mec for the same reasons your mec does not like them. They refuse to roll over and allow our pilots to be screwed like a lot of other small jet pilots have been by alpa and mgt. That's right, alpa &mgt.

Lets see how much you guys love Fred and company during your next contract talks.

 

[General Lee]

Afellowaviator,

Hmmmm. Restrictions put on you guys. What? The % Cap just went from 36% of our flying to 44%. Wow---that is really restricting you guys. How many upgrades will that allow? A lot. And the ASA MEC could have squelched the idea of Delta furloughs flying at ASA, but he didn't. Fred Butrell, the President of DCI said in the Atlanta Journal Article that your MEC seems "to have more influence at Comair." He said that---so I guess he is wrong too, right? You are the one that is mis-informed. Oh yeah, our MEC is blowing this all up and made it public to save his a$$.
Our MEC is mad that your MEC won't help when we helped you back during your strike. Should he have made it publc? Yes---and he made the ASA deal public too. You received a huge chunk of flying after our Codeshare negotiations, and you still complain. You are the ones who are benefiting off of our downfall, and can't even let guys go to the bottom of your senority list without wanting more from us. And you think we are greedy? You want this, and that, and more of this. Heck, we gave you a lot---and you couldn't even help the guys who have nothing left. And you still wont respond to the generosity we gave during your strike. It is beyond you to acknowledge that. We didn't put restrictions on you when that happened. We hoped you would win. Now, you might lose twice.

Bye Bye---General Lee