DAL pilot

[Freight Dog]

AFellowAviator.. do you treat your trainees like that too?

"You are an idiot! Now let's do that V1 cut again."


As it's been said TIME AND TIME again, not extending a hand to furloughees is low, and what CMR MEC wants amounts to an extortion, not an offer.

Can't blame DAL MEC at all for walking out...

I still ask you and you refuse to answer:

What do you care if it's a 1200 hour CFI, ex-Midway, or a furloughed Delta pilot that's sitting to your right and is junior to you? How is that "protecting your interests"? Is it perhaps jealousy that the other guy has a job waiting for him at Delta? What is it?

STILL waiting for a response from AFELLOWAVIATOR.


Best regards!

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

DOG,

Your question is stupid.You will not acknowledge that our MEC was doing what they were elected to do. It has absolutely nothing to do with getting us jobs. Talk about extortion. We are now members of the Delta family, and they refuse to acknoledge that fact. They do not want to work with us period, until now that they needed something.

We have to be in a defensive mode. Look at the US Air wholly owned. They tried for years to work with mainline, and what did it get them? Delta pilots would of already tried some thing lke a j4j extortion if they thought they could get away with it.

They simply want to get JC and company out of office in hopes of them being replaced with a passive group that will let them walk all over them. Our mgt. did not like them either, and why? Because they would not roll over. I think it is absolutely great that we have an MEC that puts our pilot group first.

Our MEC went to the meeting with the Comair pilots interest at hand, as they should of, and the Delta Mec went to the meeting with the Delta pilots interest at hand, as they should of.

It was an ambush by the Deltra mec, period. They announced weeks ahead of time that they were going to do it, unlike there meeting with the ASA MEC. They knew our MEC would do there job, and insist that scope be talked about. It was political. They were and still are attempting to drive a wedge between our MEC and the pilots. It aint gonna work. Virtually every Comair pilot I talk to has the attitude that the Delta MEC was acting out of bad faith and they are essentially full of shi%$.

 

[LASvegas777]

If the WHOLE Comair pilots group gets penalized for not lending a hand to DAL furloughees for a decision made by an elect few, I feel really bad for the Comair pilots that are ex miltary F-16, F-18,
F-14, B-52, C-5, KC-135 pilots that had to go to Comair in the past 1.5 yr since DAL wasnt hiring, and now that they are at Comair and part of the WHOLE comair pilot group, they will be penalized by thier own military friends who are at DAL saying "We wont hire Comair pilots in the Future". If what is being said on the post by DAL pilots is true will this happen? Will they just look the other way from thier military pilot friends at comair who want to go to DAL when hiring resumes and say sorry you fly at comair, should have went to ASA? And what about the Comair pilots that have dad's or mom's flying for DAL? I guess they are screwed to since they are part of the WHOLE comair pilot group and they wont have the chance to fly for DAL in the Fututre. Is there a chance a DAL pilot mom or dad would tell thier kid hey I am not going to try and help you get hired at DAL becuase of the WHOLE comair pilot group is penalized and they are bad?? The pilots that ended up at Comair that would have got hired at DAL prior to the Furloughs will still get hired at DAL when they start hiring agian in my opinon.

 

[DAL737FO]

Vegas,

You bring up a good point. I called my friends at Comair. Guys I did multiple tours of duty with in the Army. I asked if they knew what was going on and pretty much they said they just want to lay low because they are all FO's. Well it's their union and their voice when the MEC speaks for Comair. I explained that if they don't atleast say something then they are tying my hands when this all turns around. As for P-38 and his labor law suit go for it. I guess our guys should go ahead and file one now as well. I know you'll say you can have a job just give up the number. Well, and people have asked this, you can keep your number if you ever get picked up with Delta. We had 20 new hires in my class and not one person was given a piece of paper to sign giving up their number. Matter of fact it wasn't even mentioned. I guess companies that feel like they have something to offer don't require intimidation to keep people.

Good luck to all,

GII/GIII FO
furloughed Delta

 

[LASvegas777]

I think at Comair there are a FEW that say "no way dont hire any furloughee from any airline unless they give up thier seniority #" and there are a few at DAL that say "no way we will hire any Comair pilots when we start to hiring". I think the key word is a FEW and when this indusrty turns around the majority of the two pilots groups opinion on this matter will out way the FEW.

 

[Bill Mostelar]

QUOTE]Originally posted by AFELLOWAVIATOR


[Bill ,

You sound like an idiot. ]

Nice you hot head. Try that one on a student who doesn't say what you want him to.

[We are suppose to be mad because our MEC was doing what they were elected to do? I hate to break the news to you, but our MEC was not elected to get us jobs at Delta, and they were not elected to get Delta pilots jobs at Comair. They were elected to represent the COMAIR PILOTS needs at every opportunity that arises.]

Well it sounds like circular thought and a circular argument. This is exactly what some of the less progressive knuckle heads at Delta are saying. We cannot make progress throwing fires at fires. We have a duty (IMHO) to see the Delta family through this crisis and better the profession. At some point we have got to meet each other half way. I cannot prove (nor can you) exactly what was said. The point I'm making is that a mutually benefitial relationship was layed on the table and JC and the boys puffed up. They did exactly what they have been saying the Delta guys do. What does a strike and a new ALPA pin, followed by a few years of unprecedented RJ growth, entitle you to act like arrogant assholes? If it's wrong it is wrong.

In the grand scheme of things you all need us as much or more than we need you. What was proposed was a mutally benefitial preferential hiring arrangement - for the bottom of the list. No stepping on toes, bumping jobs, or ruffling of feathers.

You as an instructor should embrace the concept of higher time jet pilots on the line. You as an instructor should see how the lines could be blurred and relationships improved if we had some of our pilots flying the CL-65. You as an instructor should see the wisdom of hiring DCI pilots for the mainline and the efficiencies that would be realized (experience in the DAL system etc.)

I guess you don't see the big picture. A furlough is as unfortunate as those who found themselves on strike. It is a time to lend a hand. We did when called upon and look what it gets us. A dichotomy of egos I guess.

Why does ASA not feel the need to swell up like CMR?

Please - only respond with substance. You can leave the name calling to the sim or instructor smoke break lounge.

Fly safe!

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

OK Bill, I'll play your game.

Exactly how would this grand preff. hiring plan work? Keep in mind we were told the Military buddies would still have a leg up on us.

Why is it the Delta MEC refuses to work with our MEC on combatting the whupsaw? The only time we can meet with them is when they need something from us. This is why our MEC felt they needed to bring up our concerns during the meeting. The Delta MEC basically ignores them all other times.
It is not about why we do or do not want to hire furloughed Delta pilots.It is about our groups working together. Our MEC attempted to open discussions that went quite a bit farther than a simple hiring scheem, and were slapped down rather quickly and threatened. I do not think a preff. hiring plan was really what your MEC wanted. It was political and meant to get the focus off there short comings. Seemed to work, didn't it?


ASA mgt. decided to hire and not reguire numbers be given up. The ASA MEC was just along for the ride.

Answer this. Why do you think the Delta MEC felt they had to go public with the planned meeting with our MEC weeks before it happened? Weeks before they even contacted our MEC and arranged the meeting? And on the same note, you NEVER heard about a meeting planned with the ASA MEC????? Sounds kinda political? You betcha!


All the threats from our Delta "brothers" is laughable. It is making your pilot group really look petty and small minded.,

 

[100LL... Again!]

What is done is done. CMR MEC should stick to it's decision now.
There would be no advantage in changing. Right or wrong, ride it out.

Bluster and intimidation do not do much to strengthen an argument. One side sure seems to be using it as a tactic.

If the response from mainline pilots was more along the lines of -'how could you do this to a fellow alpa pilot', or, 'what can we do to improve relations', instead of: you sorry punks we'll make you pay!

Coming from another regional that had issues with its mainline pilot group, we were nothin' but scooter trash until they needed something - then: hey alpa brother..

Shove it, guys. Not buying it. The person on the top must make the first gesture. 'Pref hire' sounds pretty fishy to me.

To the mainline pilots who approach this with tact and diplomacy, this post is not directed at you in any way.

BTW, guys, intimidation usually betrays a weak position.

Flame on.

 

[Freight Dog]

AFellowAviator,

You as a check airman and a sim instructor should acknowledge that "the only stupid question is the one that you didn't ask." At least that's what my instructors always said. I sincerely hope you don't conduct your training sessions in the same fashion.

I will acknowledge that your MEC did what a few SENIOR COMAIR pilots wanted, NOT the majority of the group. Somebody was saying if this had gone to a vote, there would have been more people voting FOR hiring of Delta furloughees than those who voted in favor of your contract.

Bill said it perfectly: "Does a strike and a new ALPA pin, followed by a few years of unprecedented RJ growth, entitle you to act like arrogant assholes? If it's wrong it is wrong." Let me expand on that a little bit. Comair is growing and expanding on account of Delta. There is still A LOT of hiring going on there, while Delta is announcing FURTHER furloughs. To cap it off, you have a group of Comair lifers suing ALPA because their careers are allegedly threatened by Delta scope clause. Now, your MEC won't even extend a hand to those unfortunate people who are furloughed from Delta and whose flying you took over. Add it all up. I'm just waiting for more "brotherly" actions from JC and the company.

Let me refresh your mind about your strike. Do you recall ALPA-wide assessments to put food on your table while you hold the line? Do you recall donations to your family fund? Do you recall MEC's passing resolutions and urging their managements to hire your pilots, namely UAL?

On another similar topic, isn't it Leo's job to seek scope relief? I mean after all, he is the CEO of Delta, not JC. Also if Delta did in fact give up even more flying through relaxing scope, who's to say that it wouldn't be shifted to SkyWest, ASA, ACA, or CHQ? After all, you guys don't have a scope that entitles you to all future DCI flying nor that precludes even your current flying from being outsourced.

Bottom line, this was a great opportunity for CMR and DAL to come together. If you guys truly did rank below squadron buddies, then perhaps that should have been a negotiated topic - "no sir, if you want our blessing, you give OUR pilots the first preference, THEN others who are not offering you jobs at this time." If your MEC held a line at that, I would applaud him and so would many other pilots because THAT would have been looking after the interests of Comair pilots.

Looking forward to your reply!

DOG,

Your question is stupid.You will not acknowledge that our MEC was doing what they were elected to do. It has absolutely nothing to do with getting us jobs. Talk about extortion. We are now members of the Delta family, and they refuse to acknoledge that fact. They do not want to work with us period, until now that they needed something.

We have to be in a defensive mode. Look at the US Air wholly owned. They tried for years to work with mainline, and what did it get them? Delta pilots would of already tried some thing lke a j4j extortion if they thought they could get away with it.

They simply want to get JC and company out of office in hopes of them being replaced with a passive group that will let them walk all over them. Our mgt. did not like them either, and why? Because they would not roll over. I think it is absolutely great that we have an MEC that puts our pilot group first.

Our MEC went to the meeting with the Comair pilots interest at hand, as they should of, and the Delta Mec went to the meeting with the Delta pilots interest at hand, as they should of.

It was an ambush by the Deltra mec, period. They announced weeks ahead of time that they were going to do it, unlike there meeting with the ASA MEC. They knew our MEC would do there job, and insist that scope be talked about. It was political. They were and still are attempting to drive a wedge between our MEC and the pilots. It aint gonna work. Virtually every Comair pilot I talk to has the attitude that the Delta MEC was acting out of bad faith and they are essentially full of shi%$.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

Freight DOG,

I have come to the conclusion that you are simply wanting to argue. I have rebutted everything you have said and you still use the same ol line. One more time, THE COMAIR PILOTS ALREADY VOTED!! THEY VOTED THESE PEOPLE IN OFFICE TO REPRESENT THEM!!!!

As far as my teaching, I would most likely quit if I had to deal with bull headed idiots like you all the time.

IT WAS NOT ABOUT PREFF HIREING!!! IT WAS A POLITICAL MOVE!!!