Dal Opentime And The Furloughees

[abenaki]

DAL Opentime And The Furloughees

Before I start this one, I just want to say that I don't have a dog in this potential fight..........

Was yacking with some pilots the other day who told me that DAL has a fair amount of open time that is being picked up by currently employed DAL pilots. The question was raised that if the DAL pilots stopped picking up open time, that a few/some/many of their furloughed brothers and sisters could return to work.

One even related a personal story of discussing this with a DAL pilot who said that he needed that open time to make his boat payment. Now whether that was true or just a good story, I don't know. But, with all the screaming back and forth between mainline and the regional subsidiaries, it would seem, assuming that there IS open time, that the DAL pilots could help their own out by not picking up that open time and "transferring" that flying back to their furloughed friends.

Is this true? And what are your thoughts? Just curious.....

 

[rjcap]

I believe you're referring to green slipping. The one reason they pick up the open time is because they get double pay for it. Do the math and you will know why they grab it. $$$$$$$$$

 

[AlbieF15]

For those guys who can't resist the Green slips, I hope you remember your last furlough.

There are 3 furloughed DAL pilots and 1 on the bubble at my ANG unit. They've got about a dozen kids between them and are working in the ANG and one is doing a part time job outside the miltary. Nobody is on food stamps, but c'mon...dudes makin' extra coin while other dudes are getting furloughed monthly?

I have no dog in the fight directly either, but I am an ALPA member and I wonder what DALPA's position on the issue is.

 

[inline]

For those guys who can't resist the Green slips, I hope you remember your last furlough.

There are 3 furloughed DAL pilots and 1 on the bubble at my ANG unit. They've got about a dozen kids between them and are working in the ANG and one is doing a part time job outside the miltary. Nobody is on food stamps, but c'mon...dudes makin' extra coin while other dudes are getting furloughed monthly?

I have no dog in the fight directly either, but I am an ALPA member and I wonder what DALPA's position on the issue is.

Am I missing something? You're whining about your DAL buddies being furloughed, but they're still flying in the ANG and bringing home a paycheck( and remaining instrument current) on the taxpayers dime. Your buddies ought to be thankfull they aren't working at Home Depot.

 

[rjcap]

inline,

Am I missing something? You're whining about your DAL buddies being furloughed, but they're still flying in the ANG and bringing home a paycheck( and remaining instrument current) on the taxpayers dime. Your buddies ought to be thankfull they aren't working at Home Depot.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

That government check gets very addicitive.

 

[ExAF]

inline,



I was thinking the exact same thing.

That government check gets very addicitive.

If that govt check was as good as you seem to think, everyone would be doing it. Believe me, the guys that are flying military right now are earning every penny and it is a lot fewer pennies than they were making before being furloughed.

 

[abenaki]

OK, lets not go down the ANG route....Those guys are serving their country and have done so.....good for them that they have a little back-up being furloughed.....

So, the bottom line as I've heard it so far is that DAL guys are continuing to "greenslip" for the major money they can get while doing so while their "brothers and sisters" are out on the street. And if that green-slipping completely stopped, a few/some/many of the furloughees would be able to return to work. Does that about sum it up?

How can a DAL pilot, in good conscience, be knowingly responsible for putting one of his co-workers out of work so he can grab some extra cash?

That is incomprehensible to me.

 

[browntail]

It is called being an "opentime whore" and you will have a tuff time getting these guys to understand what this does to others. Aviation has many people that have the classic attitude "I've got mine so screw you"

The boat payment thing is probably true!

Some opentime would be needed to take care of unusual expenses like sick parents and such.

 

[PilotoHalcon]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** guys, I cannot believe someone is whining and inferring that those Guard guys are skating on the taxpayer’s shirttails. Those guys are earning every bit of their paycheck so people like you can are allowed to whine. I ended up in this sand box, though I do not like but it is a job. Yes I am sure they are thankful as I am (Furloughed ABX) that the Guard offered them a position what ever it is. We (ABX) have pilots doing open flying also and it does upset the rest of us. It appears that UPS was risking the same problems but their union apparently has a stronger leadership so their open flying is not being done. And INLINEand RJCAP, when you all put a uniform on and I mean a MILITARY uniform on then you will be in a better position to criticize.Carry on.
j

 

[dogg]

Probably they pick up open time because they figure that if they don't some one else will. And if no one picks it up they will run the reserves ragged.
It takes a major company wide effort to overcome open time staffing practices and it just is not going to happen at places like DAl, UAL, AA etc... to much greed......it is the lure of easy money and baby it is addictive

 

[FAMILYMANOK]

Well I back and support my Delta Brothers and Sisters all the time, and I always will. I hope that the green slipping can be stopped. At this point it's hard for me to understand greenslipping for hundreds of dollars an hour, when I am working my but off at a Mail Box Etc for a $100 bonus for the entire month. This on top of $ 9 an hour. I'll do what I can though, I have a five year old I'm trying to give a good Christmas.

May 2002
Furloughee

 

[B737G]

We have one FO in MCO who had three GREEDSLIPS in November. She Greedslips every month. The boat story is probably true as a friend of mine who is a DAL FO knows a guy from a previous job who is greedslipping to pay for his boat. The problem is that if noone greedslips, the company will just assign the trip to someone who is a lineholder if adequate reserves are not available. We called it drafting when I was at ASA. No matter how you slice it, greedslipping is wrong and I would like a list of all those who greedslipped with pilots on furlough. These are probably the same people who are against paying medical/dental/furlough relief fund for those on the street.

 

[skykid]

I'm sure some who pick up open flying could try to rationalize it by saying they are just trying to help out the company. I would personally never fly 1 hour above the line assigned to me with anyone on forlough. I do the absolute best job I can with the hours I fly, but no extra time. Hats off to the military members who are smart enough to keep that option available, and willing to risk everything while enduring long separations from family. Well over half of our air power is now provided by Guard or Reserve forces.

 

[csmith]

We have one FO in MCO who had three GREEDSLIPS in November. She Greedslips every month. The boat story is probably true as a friend of mine who is a DAL FO knows a guy from a previous job who is greedslipping to pay for his boat. The problem is that if noone greedslips, the company will just assign the trip to someone who is a lineholder if adequate reserves are not available. We called it drafting when I was at ASA. No matter how you slice it, greedslipping is wrong and I would like a list of all those who greedslipped with pilots on furlough. These are probably the same people who are against paying medical/dental/furlough relief fund for those on the street.

My personal take on it is that it is wrong to greenslip with people on the street as well. That's where it ends. You want people to be prohibited from greenslipping? You have to put it in the contract that no greenslips will be handed out with people on furlough. Ain't gonna happen. Just as no FM ain't gonna happen. Like it or not, the company needs an out for unusual circumstances. You certainly can't blame people for flying their contract--ALL of their contract.

Vigilante justice certainly isn't the answer, and could very well end your career at Delta, period. I'm on your side, bro, there is just nothing that can be done. If everyone made the personal choice to not answer their phones on days off, there wouldn't be a problem. Many answer their phone to get junior manned, and the double pay goes to somebody junior while the senior pilot goes dry. Is this justice? I think not. The seniority system is all we have. It has been tainted enough without messing it up even more.

My opinion

 

[Huck]

I had a Comair dude tell me once - when they were in the throes of their last contract talks, they posted on a bulletin board all those that were flying overtime. Is that true?

I've never flown on my off days, in good times or bad. My opinion is that I ask enough from my family.

I think there's a big difference in volunteering for O/T and getting junior manned. No shame in the latter when there's guys on the street - not so sure about the former....