DAL/NWA SLI Progress

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On August 8th the SLI negotiations were scheduled to conclude.

Today, August 12th, is the deadline for the list of resolved and remaining open items.

Any news?

Will we hear anything before November 20th?

 

[tblosser]

On August 8th the SLI negotiations were scheduled to conclude.

Today, August 12th, is the deadline for the list of resolved and remaining open items.

Any news?

Will we hear anything before November 20th?

We have not been able to reach any agreement on any issue as of last week. According to an LEC member.

 

[Superpilot92]

We have recieved almost exactly the same info you guys have. Our updates were almost exactly the same.

 

[Noserider76]

We have not been able to reach any agreement on any issue as of last week. According to an LEC member.

Surprise, surprise. Here's to hoping for 5 year fences around each side's bases and equipment.

 

[tomgoodman]

Bluff 'em into a deal?

A negotiated agreement would still be possible if the arbitrator causes both sides to fear his decision even more than a compromise deal. I'm not sure how he can do that, unless he telegraphs a different message to each team. :smash:

 

[400ADude]

Date of hire is going to be the name of the game. Guaranteed.

 

[flatspin7]

When will people understand that Date of Hire is irrelevant and impossible. Delta and NWA have both been through numerous mergers in their history and therefore the list are mixed. Heck I think NWA still had some fences up from the Republic merger a few years back.

Length of Service, Relative Position, QOL, and pay check are biggest concerns.

 

[michael707767]

A negotiated agreement would still be possible if the arbitrator causes both sides to fear his decision even more than a compromise deal. I'm not sure how he can do that, unless he telegraphs a different message to each team. :smash:

you would think. It is my understanding though that the arbitrator in the USAir case tried to tell the East pilots where he was going and they still refused to negotiate.

 

[FDJ2]

Length of Service, Relative Position, QOL, and pay check are biggest concerns.

Actually it's:

"weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:"

a. Preserve jobs.

b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.

c. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pay and standard of living.

d. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pilot status.

e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

 

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We have not been able to reach any agreement on any issue as of last week. According to an LEC member.

That's what I've been hearing too. I just find it hard to believe there is not agreement on something. After all, they thought had reached agreement for a ~ 24 hour period last time around.

Would it be fair to guess that after the JPWA took the pressure off an SLI agreement, both sides went back to their respective corners and did not come back towards the middle ground?

Reading the list of arbitrators, it seemed like two had prior NWA experience and I know Bloch has prior Delta experience although he did not put it on his resume like the other(s) did.

The news black out is frustrating, but probably necessary. We'd be flighting like Pit Bulls at Michael Vic's house if we knew the proposals and counter proposals at this stage.

Our leadership has done a good job so far. I'd hoped maybe they had hammered out most of an SLI, or reached an agreement in principle.

 

[FDJ2]

Reading the list of arbitrators, it seemed like two had prior NWA experience and I know Bloch has prior Delta experience although he did not put it on his resume like the other(s) did.

Fred Horowitz I believe was one of the three arbitrators during our 1113c arbitration in 2006. I'm not sure what, if any, experience we have had with Dana Eichen. In a discussion with a member of our merger committee last week I was left with the impression that the committee was very comfortable with the panel and the process.

 

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FDJ2 again is correct, for others on this board, let me suggest this quick and easy article:

http://www.alpa.org/DesktopModules/...View.aspx?itemid=3282&ModuleId=3052&Tabid=256

But, both the Delta & NWA MEC's are trying to improve on ALPA's merger policy. Part of this was plan was getting the JPWA and SLI framework agreement.

So far, so good.

It is interesting to watch other parts of this operation come together. For instance, flight operations at performance limited, high altitude, or otherwise "special airports." The most recent Flight Operations 411 talks about some of Delta's operations in the Western US and South America, while NWA's got theirs in Asia.

I would guess the 757 fleet would be the first to start flying together since both airlines have the the same type and engines. We still have the same 757/767 rates so pilots that only see one 767 a month might only see it less frequently in the future.

 

[Noserider76]

Fred Horowitz I believe was one of the three arbitrators during our 1113c arbitration in 2006. I'm not sure what, if any, experience we have had with Dana Eichen. In a discussion with a member of our merger committee last week I was left with the impression that the committee was very comfortable with the panel and the process.

Question for you guys: Do you know if fences and their length are a proposal from the parties or can the neutrals impose them on their own? Does the company have any say at all in the matter? I believe medium term fences in this case will go a long way toward giving both parties a sense of security during the transition and wouldn't stop the company from implementing their plans.

 

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Noserider:

FDJ2 can fact check me on this, but I think it depends on the table positions each respective group brings to the negotiation.

The nature of arbitration is that they tend to "split the baby up the middle." If one side wants a ten year fence and the other side wants no fence, the result might be a five year fence.

You bring up management's involvement and that is a good point. As far as I know management will not be at the table in this arbitration. However, there may be some advance agreement with management that we are not privy to.

 

[Turtle21]

Actually it's:

"weigh all the equities inherent in their merger situation. In joint session, the merger representatives should attempt to match equities to various methods of integration until a fair and equitable agreement is reached, keeping in mind the following goals, in no particular order:"

a. Preserve jobs.

b. Avoid windfalls to either group at the expense of the other.

c. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pay and standard of living.

d. Maintain or improve pre‑merger pilot status.

e. Minimize detrimental changes to career expectations.

Simply brilliant guidelines. A masterpiece to safeguard the profession. Oh the wonder... who authored such a timeless document?

Can someone spare a Kleenex?

 

[Superpilot92]

Wasnt part of the agreement with Mgmt not to have fences? Other than the time between DCC and SOC of course.

 

[Noserider76]

Noserider:

FDJ2 can fact check me on this, but I think it depends on the table positions each respective group brings to the negotiation.

The nature of arbitration is that they tend to "split the baby up the middle." If one side wants a ten year fence and the other side wants no fence, the result might be a five year fence.

You bring up management's involvement and that is a good point. As far as I know management will not be at the table in this arbitration. However, there may be some advance agreement with management that we are not privy to.

Thanks dude.

 

[Noserider76]

Wasnt part of the agreement with Mgmt not to have fences? Other than the time between DCC and SOC of course.

It wasn't in the JPWA, and any side agreement that wasn't disclosed to membership would be a big problem, I think. I also can't imagine any arbitrator being tied to what management wants.

 

[filejw]

A negotiated agreement would still be possible if the arbitrator causes both sides to fear his decision even more than a compromise deal. I'm not sure how he can do that, unless he telegraphs a different message to each team. :smash:

Except that is arbitrators like three...

 

[Flyer1015]

This is just the beginning of a wild ride. Grab your popcorn and Coke, and sit back and watch.