DAL/NWA Combination....should regional guys be worried?

[DTW320]

Weak. If you're going to insult me as least be good at it.

Got it....when asked to back up bogus statements made in your posts with FACTS you ignore said requests in hopes they will go away. Do yourself a favor and use the "edit" feature of this forum so you don't look like such a "dork".

Again, stay below the freezing level in that thing sparky. Remember, We're all countin on ya...

CYA

 

[~~~^~~~]

jke406: Any chance you could change that avitar? It kinda creeps me out. There are many better looking women out there, just ask Bill.

 

[DTW320]

Originally Posted by John Pennekamp
Besides, I'd never flown a 747 sim before. It was fun.

Yeah, it is fun John. I'm sorry that your first time was also, your last time.

On the other hand, I think we do rent the 747 sims in off hours. Since ASA goes to MSP, man, that may just be the ticket for your days off! It's not cheap, but hey, you got the coin....right? You could always tap that B plan ya know...

 

[Occam's Razor]

Small point of consideration:

Wasn't Scope given away by mainline pilots?

If you consider rape "giving it away"! We got the Scope when we had leverage. We accumulated it over time, in addition to other goodies and enhancements to our contract.

When the Possession Arrow pointed toward management, we lost some of our gains. They had leverage, through the management-friendly code written into Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy laws.

It's a cycle. Always has been.

So, to fix the problem, shouldn't mainline pilots bear the "majority" of the cost?

Yes. That's never been in dispute. What HAS been in dispute is whether the Airlink guys should bear any of the cost. When I was one of the mainline guys fighting for Brand Scope at the 2000 BOD, every time I mentioned "cost sharing", the Founding Nitwits of the RJDC walked away.

I heard comments from Ford & Co. that they'd have a Delta seniority number before they'd pay a penny for Brand Scope.

They chose poorly...

I'm sure I'll get roasted for throwing this out there by guys who expect regional pilots to actually take a pay cut to finance something that mainline pilots gave away for more bennies years ago...

Maybe, if the term "gave away" was accurate. Since it's not, you're safe.

Some knotheads make it sound like mainline guys were dying to give away the Scope we'd paid for with negotiating capital over the years.

I can assure you they are wrong.

Pandora's box is open... I don't think you can get enough people on the same page long enough to close it again.

Concur. We had a window of opportunity in 2000, but the spokesweasels for Clan RJ walked away.

 

[Hawker dude]

Yeah he did say 401k.....he said 11% on top of his salary. That's what we call a B-plan sparky.
As for the AL school system, hey, your the ASA pilot....sounds like your neck of the woods and your area of expertise.
Your avoidance of the specifics in your posts speaks volumes.

Stay out of icing in that thing, kay?

airline pilot central says your (NWA) A fund is frozen and your B fund pays 0-5%.

plus your monthly guarantee is 68/75 hrs. you don't even hit 100$ an hour as a 757 FO

wow sign me up.

I am sure you are proud to fly a big shinny jet but no matter how you cut the so called legacy are just average now days.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

John Pennekamp seems to think everybody who wears a double-breasted coat (jealous?, you can have it) was born into the job......we got up off of our a$$ applied and got the job giving up whatever to do it.....you tools want 200K a year to provide feed??? Cart meet Horse!!!

 

[DTW320]

airline pilot central says your (NWA) A fund is frozen and your B fund pays 0-5%.

Yes, A plan is frozen. How is ASA's A plan? Oh, that's right, they don't have one. We have age 60 folks exiting with 8 - 12k/month A plan pensions. B plan pays new hires 6% rising to 8 % (THAT's what is on airline pilot central...perhaps you and John can take a reading comp. class together sometime)

Non-new hires get targeted B plans that have senior bubbas (with the 8 - 12k/month) getting 0% while some junior guys(with much lower A plans) get as much as 20%.

plus your monthly guarantee is 68/75 hrs. you don't even hit 100$ an hour as a 757 FO.

Monthly guarantee? Who gets that? Average line value for the 757 is around 85 hours credit(150% pay over 80). Pay rates? Yeah we got hit in BK. A couple of years ago the 75 FO was making $150. The A and B plans help as does profit sharing, incentive pay, oh and that six figure per pilot claim sale we all got too.

wow sign me up.

OK. I can put in an internal rec for ya, just let me know K?

I am sure you are proud to fly a big shinny jet but no matter how you cut the so called legacy are just average now days.

And that statement has exactly what to do with asking JK to back up his ridiculous claims with facts? BTW, some of our planes are SHINY but I don't think we have any shinny ones. Must be a fractional thing huh? Google says "shinny" is an informal form of hockey with no formal rules. I'll see if any of our MSP guys have heard of it...maybe I missed a memo....

Take Care

 

[brainhurts]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainhurts
I am not sure if you really grasp this or not, but that was never your slice of the pie. At best it was rented to you, but now the term of the lease is up and the piece of pie is about to be put in the cooler so that it can be preserved for a short while.
That is the situation all of us are in. We have all contributed to this mess and no one wants to take responsibility when they hurt others--and then they want to cry when their temporary piece of pie is stuffed in the cooler. Man up please.

Rented? Talk about spin.

You can spin it however you want to, but once you give something, you also give up your rights to it.
Is that according to the laws of John Pennekamp? Show me that "rule" written in stone. You just go on believing that until you are out of a job.

You can't just take it back without compensation.
Yes THEY can. THEY are called management and they do not play by your rules.
Talk about a double standard and lack of character. No wonder everybody who doesn't fly for a mainline (including the public) think mainline pilots are egotistical jerks.
"Everybody"?....as in "everybody knows Tammy likes Billy and that he will ask her to the prom". That is the level of maturity you are displaying.

The solution is to bring the regional pilots into the fold. Not take the food out of their childrens' mouths. Why don't you guys understand that? Oh I get it. You already got yours, so screw us, right?
I have always thought the RJ guys should have been brought into the fold, however the thing you will figure out when you mature, is that things do not always go your way. YOU are putting your kids and the food that goes in their mouth into jeopardy by "hanging your hat" on an untested business model (i.e. "regional jet company") that has no real history in the industry and it seems that the rj companies that do not get out of 50 seat flying are in trouble, so it's too bad you did not take your NWA interview more......maturely. It seems that your fixation on Al Gore has somehow transmitted his delusional state into the fabric of your being.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Occam:

Mainline MEC's did not give away scope, they sold it in exchange for hundreds of millions in "bargaining credits."

Please tell us the location and dates where you met with Dan Ford and I'll check with the guy to see if anything you write ever actually happened.

You are all hung up on some "cost" that you can't explain, or quantify, but you still have avoided answereing the question - "Who is going to pay the price to bring your contract up to Delta's contract standards?"

We are waiting for your answer.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If you consider rape "giving it away"! We got the Scope when we had leverage. We accumulated it over time, in addition to other goodies and enhancements to our contract.

Concur. We had a window of opportunity in 2000, but the spokesweasels for Clan RJ walked away.

Occam:

We stand on the shoulders of Giants; on the shoulders of those who formed the World's greatest pilot union by standing together, each lifting their corner with no weak sides.

Scope was "created" when pilots formed a union and stopped all outsourcing. Alter ego was ALPA's number one enemy. Scope was all airline flying performed by pilots on the airline's seniority list.

This is the profession you inherited.

Those who supported unionism in 1999 tried every available internal remedy to resolve the undermining of ALPA's own merger and fragmentation policy found in the union's Constitution, Bylaws and Policy Manuals.

These pilots warned of alter ego whipsaw, the outsourcing of mainline jobs and the replacement of union workers. (all these predictions came true) These pilots were pilot volunteers, MEC Chairmen, ALPA Historians, and new hires like me.

When every attempt failed, these pilots using their own money, retained Counsel with the goal of reforming ALPA's behavior. Specifically, these pilots wanted ALPA to recognize its fiduciary relationship with all of its members.

While ALPA delayed, the lack of unity was exploited by management teams who saw the perfect opportunity to undermine ALPA's power in the aftermath of September 11th. Delta Connection went from 3 carriers to 7 or more, Delta pilots were furloughed and non union carriers hired more than 5,000 pilots to perform flying once performed by ALPA brothers.

In the mean time, the union patriots continued to fight the battle until it was obvious the war was lost. Comair and ASA's leadership in the DCI portfolio was reduced to the margins while Sky West transfered aircraft and jobs.

ASA and Comair pilots spent tens of thousands of hours and hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting for the principles outlined by ALPA's founding fathers.

They did not "walk away" as you say they did. They fought, hard.

~~~^~~~

P.S. admittedly, they lost. The obligation passes to us....

 

[Ridgeback]

All Delta flying belongs to the Delta pilots with noted exceptions as dictated by the Delta PWA. That PWA gets renegotiated and is subject to more Delta owned flying or less Delta flying. You have no control over it. The Delta pilots do.

Deal with it. it is your lot in life, until you choose to go elsewhere.

I think you are VERY mistaken, Delta's executives has control over Delta flying. When was the last you, as a Delta pilot decided to serve xyz city...you are a jerk...get over yourself sh_t rolls downhill and I think you need to revaluate your position on the hill

 

[xjlifer]

Well two more pages of "my SCHWANKER is bigger than your SCHWANKER"
This should make the Bismarck over night a little more interesting.

 

[brainhurts]

Well two more pages of "my SCHWANKER is bigger than your SCHWANKER"
This should make the Bismarck over night a little more interesting.

My SCHWANKER is bigger than your SCHWANKER.

 

[jke406]

jke406: Any chance you could change that avitar? It kinda creeps me out. There are many better looking women out there, just ask Bill.

True indeed. However, we may all get to see way too much of her if she's elected. I'll change it as soon as she loses...

 

[GogglesPisano]

Deleted, kindergarten was so long ago.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You said at one time you were planning to get out of aviation. I call BS. You are bitter, stuck at a regional, and have no prospects anywhere else (with your personality, it's not hard to see why).

All that's left for you is an existence of trying to justify your poor decisions and attempt to blame mainline pilots for your lack of progression in this industry.

You are like a clown on fire. Kind of funny, kind of sad.

I plan on going to law school. But thanks for your opinion, for what it's worth (not much). Insults don't work with me... I don't care what you think... especially from random anonymous people on a message board. As someone else said "get a new hobby".

 

[John Pennekamp]

It is very entertaining, though, that I have the power to get all of you foaming at the mouth mad. I can feel your blood pressure rising from here. Y'all will never make it to Age 65 if you let yourselves get aggravated this easily.

 

[PuffDriver]

I think you are VERY mistaken, Delta's executives has control over Delta flying. When was the last you, as a Delta pilot decided to serve xyz city...you are a jerk...get over yourself sh_t rolls downhill and I think you need to revaluate your position on the hill

I know it's hard for you and Penne to accept, but it is there in black and white for all to see. It has nothing to do with me "getting over myself". It is the legaleese of the Delta PWA. Some people just can't handle looking at it for what it is. Four letters-RJDC. They lost.

Now he's going to law school when he can't even win a debate on an anonymous BB. You just gotta laugh.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I know it's hard for you and Penne to accept, but it is there in black and white for all to see. It has nothing to do with me "getting over myself". It is the legaleese of the Delta PWA. Some people just can't handle looking at it for what it is. Four letters-RJDC. They lost.

Now he's going to law school when he can't even win a debate on an anonymous BB. You just gotta laugh.

Hey! Leave race out of this? Are you prejudice? The OBAP thread posters are going to be all over you now!

 

[jke406]

It is very entertaining, though, that I have the power to get all of you foaming at the mouth mad. I can feel your blood pressure rising from here. Y'all will never make it to Age 65 if you let yourselves get aggravated this easily.

Yes, I'm sure your new career as an ambulance chaser will be completely stress-free. Good luck to you....just keep telling yourself it was your "choice" not to go to a mainline carrier.

How's that LSAT studying going? You may have noticed a heavy emphasis on logic and reasoning. You should obtain extra tutoring on those subjects prior to taking the test--you're quite weak in those areas.