DAL MEC meets Comair MEC

[snowback]

From a recent DALPA Code-a phone message

Item two. At its October meeting, the (Delta) MEC passed a resolution directing the MEC Chairman to meet with the Comair MEC to pursue a reciprocal preferential hiring policy for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair and for Comair pilots at Delta. This week, MEC Chairman Capt. Will Buergey met with the Comair MEC Chairman in Cincinnati to discuss this issue further. The Comair MEC Chairman stated that his MEC administration does not support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. ASA management, at the ASA MEC’s request, has already hired furloughed Delta pilots, who start at the bottom of the airline’s seniority list and retain their recall rights at Delta.

 

[ACE]

It's not going to happen. Comair management and the Comair pilot group do not want the Delta pilots to come over and work with us. The only way it could happen is if Delta management says too take the Delta pilots. The Comair pilots are ready to cause chaos if we are made to do this against our will. I do not want to see any Delta pilot furloughed, but for them to come to Comair is a conflict of interest. For all you Delta pilots, you guys can call me an ass all you want for saying this, but it is fact.

 

[9rj9]

Why not ?

I don't get it? What conflict of interest ? They're pilots, we have airplanes, what gives. I guess the minority speaks for the majority, again !!! I'd say 95% of the Comair guys would support bringing those guys/gals in.

 

[Timebuilder]

Why not?

Since we are talking about people, there are no doubt some hard feelings on both sides. The Delta pilots feel that Comair has taken some of their flying. The Comair pilots feel they are paid less for the same work.

Maybe if the pot is sweetened a little, an agreement could be reached. I think it will take more than a couple of meetings.

 

[B737G]

Why not?

Since we are talking about people, there are no doubt some hard feelings on both sides. The Delta pilots feel that Comair has taken some of their flying. The Comair pilots feel they are paid less for the same work.

Maybe if the pot is sweetened a little, an agreement could be reached. I think it will take more than a couple of meetings.

If the Comair pilots do not like their pay, they need to negotiate for higher pay next contract. The pilots at DAL do not set payrates for Comair. It seems as though Comair pilots are not happy about the outcome from their strike and for some inane reason they blame Delta pilots.

 

[Timebuilder]

Very often, many aspects of labor relations don't make sense, due to that human element. Some of the distaste of Comair pilots come from the issue of scope and fair representation. I'm not starting an RJDC thread here, just making an observation or two.

I'm certain that the Comair pilots will do better next time. I also feel that in twenty years very few pilots will make the money currently made by the top 50 Delta captains, in 2002 dollars. There is a labor valuation adjustment happening due to changing markets for business travel, and the type of equipment used by the business traveller. Soon the landscape will begin to look very different in aviation.

 

[skiddriver]

Actually, I think the issue here involves DALPA's previous (and current) rejection of a seniority list combination rather than a disagreement over pay scales.

The DALPA position that Mainline guys should fill ALL the vacancies on the Comair list by right and should also be able to retain immediate recall rights to Delta mainline, but the only way a Comair pilot can get on to the Delta list is to submit a resume seemed perhaps a wee bit one-sided to the Comair negotiator.

Viewed from this perspective, you might say that the DALPA phone message left a few things out about the meeting.

 

[FlyingSig]

The DALPA position that Mainline guys should fill ALL the vacancies on the Comair list by right and should also be able to retain immediate recall rights to Delta mainline,

This is not DALPA's position. DALPA's position was to approach the Comair MEC and ask them to ask Comair management to hire Delta furloughees. It was never asked that all slots go to DAL pilots. It was never asked that a certain amount of slots go to DAL pilots. It was only asked that the opportunity be afforded to DAL pilots - an opportunity that would be up to the individual pilot.

 

[asarjfo]

I think you guys need to relax a bit!

ASA is INTERVIEWING any Delta pilots but is not REQUIRED to hire them over somebody else they deem to be more qualified. I think there are only a handful of Delta pilots flying here now, and all are ex ASA guys. They have all been welcomed back to the END of the list and I have not heard any hard feelings.

I must admit when the idea first came about I was a bit "miffed", but it just makes sense to hire somebody that has been here before and is already typed. It has NO NEGATIVE effect on the rest of the pilot group and you are helping somebody off unemployment.

I think it may be time to pick a new battle.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ASARJ:

There are several Delta pilots going into IOE right now who were not prior ASA pilots. I spoke to one at length. She had flown ATR's for Eagle prior to Delta. My understanding is there is an informal agreement that ASA take a certain number of Delta pilots and that the number is generated by the ASA MEC in cooperation with company needs.

These sort of informal agreements go both ways. When I hired in Delta had just hired the entire E120 training department except for two IP's. This practically shut down the E120 training program, forcing us to go through Flight Safety. Delta then agreed to limit the number of ASA pilots getting hired to reduce the trauma to the training & scheduling departments.

The Delta had MEC threatened the Comair MEC with going public over their refusal of a proposed "reciprocal preferential hiring agreement." This code a phone looks like the first part of that DAL MEC publicity attack on the Comair MEC.

However, who cares? To me the more news worth items are that information is being provided about cash balance retirement plans. I was pretty sure when Delta converted the other employees' retirement plans that the pilots would be next. This move saves the company tens, possibly hundreds, or millions in the current market environment. (United's obligation is 1.7 Billion on a similar pilot retirement program).

If so, Delta is not done negotiating with their pilots. The Code A Phone struck me as a little groundwork for future action.

Regards,
~~~^~~~

 

[VFR on Top]

If the Comair pilots do not like their pay, they need to negotiate for higher pay next contract. The pilots at DAL do not set payrates for Comair. It seems as though Comair pilots are not happy about the outcome from their strike and for some inane reason they blame Delta pilots.

When was the last time Delta pilots went to Delta management and said "you need to pay DCI pilots more"? Purely out of egotism and a sense of "I got mine, who cares about yours", you guys failed to ensure that leg of the table was equal to the others, and now you're complaining because your food's sliding off the edge due to the resulting tilt. Self-inflicted wounds deserve no sympathy.

 

[NYRANGERS]

When was the last time Delta pilots went to Delta management and said "you need to pay DCI pilots more"? Purely out of egotism and a sense of "I got mine, who cares about yours", you guys failed to ensure that leg of the table was equal to the others, and now you're complaining because your food's sliding off the edge due to the resulting tilt. Self-inflicted wounds deserve no sympathy.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Is this true?

At its October meeting, the (Delta) MEC passed a resolution directing the MEC Chairman to meet with the Comair MEC to pursue a reciprocal preferential hiring policy for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair and for Comair pilots at Delta.

As an ASA guy, I am 100% for getting all of the mainline guys on our list to get them off the street. I have heard nothing but good things about them. But the only thing that is making me wonder is the word "reciprocal". As I understand it, ASA has offered in good faith to pick up these Delta furloughs (as we and OTHERS should), but I have not heard of any reciprocal agreement with mainline. I certainly hope that they (Delta MEC) are not offering the reciprocal agreement only to Comair and not ASA. Of course I have been recalled back to the military and have been out of the proverbial loop for a few months, I dont think that when Delta mainline starts hiring again, there will be open arms to us ASA folks. Hopefully I am wrong.

 

[rjcap]

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about

Actually, he has made a very relevant point that has been brought up before.

If the compensation of mainline and DCI were more inline then I doubt you would see the hiring going on at DCI while mainline is furloughed.

??

 

[NYRANGERS]

Actually, he has made a very relevant point that has been brought up before.

If the compensation of mainline and DCI were more inline then I doubt you would see the hiring going on at DCI while mainline is furloughed.

??

If the compensation were inline with us then I am sure LEO would liquidate your airline and code share with MESA, Chatauqua, Skywest, etc, etc.

Anyway, I have given up on the idea of flying for comair. I would have liked to, my friends there say it is a great operation.

I guess we will have to agree to remain at odds and see who comes out in the end.

On the other hand, I would love for you guys to make as much as mainline or more. I just don't see it happening when you have so many pilots out there who will do the job for so little.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

I love it. The same pilots who want to scope us and control our futures now want a favor. We have been working hard to make this a career airline, and now these guys want a place to bide there time until the economy picks up? I don't think so. We need pilots who have a vested interest in making this an even better place to work.
Don't come asking for favors like we are some big family after you negotiated limits on us , even though we now work for the same company.
This makes as much sense as me wanting to keep my Comair number if I get hired at Delta, just in case I get furloughed.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

NYRANGER,
I see you flew the do328. I guess you made $150.00 per hour! I noticed your comment about us low lifes who are willing to work so cheap. I would assume you were not talking about your self. How much did you make flying that do328?

 

[FlyingSig]

This makes as much sense as me wanting to keep my Comair number if I get hired at Delta, just in case I get furloughed.

FYI, Delta's official policy (when they are hiring) is that you are NOT required to resign your senority when you come to fly for Delta. Source: Air Inc.

So if Comair were to furlough you, and you got hired at Delta, you could go back to your original seat if you wanted to.

 

[checkessential]

Hope this never happens. Funny how suddenly flying RJ's looks attractive to a mainline pilot. Don't be mistaken, those folks HATE Comair/ASA, have contempt for their pilots and hate the fact that they are working happily. Why should Comair offer ANY empathy. Not going to happen, and if it should, oh boy- I can interview with a mainline that may never hire again.

Cheers

 

[NYRANGERS]

NYRANGER,
I see you flew the do328. I guess you made $150.00 per hour! I noticed your comment about us low lifes who are willing to work so cheap. I would assume you were not talking about your self. How much did you make flying that do328?

Ofcourse I did not make $150 an hour. I used the DO328 as a "stepping stone" to the majors. What I mean is, there are people (including myself) who would fly an RJ for $80 an hour inorder to build my resume and go to a major.

I now see that our pilot groups are at such odds that this is the way things are going to be. I have forgotten about flying for comair. I will now concentrate my efforts on finding a different job.

I hope you can raise the bar to mainline pay and work rules. Just because I don't believe it will happen does not mean I don't want it to happen.

I just think the message from comair was loud and clear and it will NEVER be forgotten. You obviously have no desire to come to Delta, thats your business. But this is extreamly hurtful to the comair pilots that would have liked to come to Delta.