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DAL labor costs are "are still uncompetitive."

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This measure cannot fall too close to $0 without airlines become insolvent, but we think real yields are approaching some non-zero asymptote. Basically, we see little--short of reregulation--that might precipitate permanently higher ticket prices. Sure, yields were up substantially in 2005 as bankruptcies and stratospheric fuel prices helped reduce industry capacity. Others will be quick to remind of yields on international flights, where low-cost competition is noticeably absent. And what if we see further consolidation like the merger of America West and http://im.morningstar.com/im/premIcon.gif US Airways

To these optimists, we would point out the long history of new and existing airlines picking up capacity that has been dropped by others. We would also warn of proliferating "open skies" agreements that are bound, eventually, to invite lower-cost competitors into international skies. For these reasons, we expect real pricing yields to remain basically flat over the long term.

On top of its commodity pricing environment, the airline industry is deeply cyclical. Because of their bloated cost structures, legacy players typically lose money in economic downturns, and P/E multiples become meaningless by definition. When times are good, P/E multiples can start to look very attractive. Investors should recognize that this does not mean that a major airline's intrinsic value varies over the course of the business cycle.

In 1999, Delta Air Linestraded as high as $70, implying a trailing P/E of just under 10. In 2005, about a year after we assigned the firm a $0 fair value estimate, Delta filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Without question, 9/11, SARS, and record fuel costs expedited this decline. But aggressive low-cost carriers were in plain view in 1999, and a downturn was to be expected in the coming years based on the history of that cycle. So, did Delta's intrinsic value fall from $70 to $0 in those six years, or was it never anywhere near $70?


http://im.morningstar.com/im/DALRQ10year.png

Intrinsic Value vs. Price Targets

Unlike sell-side analysts, who try to predict what stock prices will do in the next 12 months, we here at Morningstar are attempting to estimate the intrinsic value of businesses. Had we covered Delta in 1999 when the stock's P/E was attractive by most standards, our discounted cash-flow model would not have included the impact of the largely unexpected factors we noted above. However, our cash-flow forecasts would have incorporated an industry downturn, which, because it was more than a year out, was not considered by Delta's P/E multiples at that time. For differences like this, investors should expect to see stock prices--and Wall Street price targets--of airlines and other cyclical companies vary around our fair value estimate at different points in their respective cycles. Now that the current airline cycle is well into an upswing, for instance, these stocks are trading at 3-6 times our fair value estimates and 9-10 times next year's earnings forecasts.
Yet despite massive restructuring efforts and positive industrywide trends, we simply expect the legacy airlines to produce weak cash flows because their business model remains less efficient in a highly commodified pricing environment. The effect is particularly harsh through cyclical downturns, for which we account in our models. As we noted above, forward P/E ratios do not capture these more distant struggles, and such earnings multiples may admittedly be better suited to the game in which short-term investors and speculators participate. But for the investor who is thinking about buying and holding a stock longer than a year or two, the method is severely limited.
The bottom line is simple: We do not recommend legacy airlines to long-term investors who seek stable price appreciation throughout economic cycles. For those who want to gamble, please do so at your own risk.
 
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And, the Southwest connections to Anchorage? How did they get there from SAT? Get the picture? Most of our pax connect through our hubs to places SW doesn't fly to, like Montana and Alaska. We are full most of the time.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Anchorage is the hot rumor for the next city at SWA. Probably 12 months away though.
 
From Whitehursts Oct 11 online chat.

Q.Yesterday an article quoted Ed Bastian as saying at the Aviation Forecast Conference that our "employee costs and labor costs are still uncompetitive". By what measure is this statement made? After all we have given it is disheartening to read quotes like this time and time again. We have nothing left to give.

Jim Whitehurst: I think that was taken out of context. He was referring to where our costs were in September 2005 when we filed for bankruptcy. Given the sacrifices you have all made since that time, costs are competitive now.
 
General Lee, you surprise me with your cocky statement on how DL gives pax the ability to connect to more airports than SWA. You, more than anybody, has seen SWA add more and more cities to its structure over the years (while everyone else like DL has gone the other way) You know that its just a matter of time till SWA enters Alaska and Montana! What are your excuses going to be then? Oh, I know, DL connects pax to int'l destinations - there you go!
 
General Lee, you surprise me with your cocky statement on how DL gives pax the ability to connect to more airports than SWA.


Is it "cocky" or a fact?

Southwest flies to 62* cities in 32 states.
Delta offers flights to 461 worldwide destinations in 96 countries.
 
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Is it "cocky" or a fact?

Southwest flies to 62* cities in 32 states.
Delta offers flights to 461 worldwide destinations in 96 countries.

Yea, but how come nobody points this out when your management looks for a paycut to compete with Southwest? :confused:
 
Yea, but how come nobody points this out when your management looks for a paycut to compete with Southwest? :confused:

SWA had the best fuel hedge program in the industry when DAL had none and fuel was at all time record prices, no pay cut could make us competitive against that advantage at the time. Luckily for us, on that front, times are a changing. Additionally, DAL didn't see SWA as our main domestic competitor, management preferred to point out JBLU and AAI pay rates, although your were significantly lower than ours just two years ago.
 
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Tell me about the flood at JFK of Delta Jets and regional partners. Today it took us 1 hour and 5 minutes to taxi and takeoff from JFK at 3 in the afternoon!!! 31L had about 20+ arrivals of Delta 757s, 767s, CRJ-200s and even some Dash 8s in the mix. I don't care if they ramp up service at JFK, what I do care about is the fact that they continue to land them on the sole departing runway while 20+ jets wait to take off, many of whom were transcons and oceanic. What did Delta do, pay off the ATC controllers at JFK? Land them on 31R like everybody else-- even if the line goes out to the Hamptons...

I don't see a problem here at all.................if it costs JBLU more money and it helps them show a bigger loss for the entire year, it's got to be a good thing!

On another hypocritical note, http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=87683..........
 
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Anchorage is the hot rumor for the next city at SWA. Probably 12 months away though.

Great, Alaska Airlines will kick your butts. (they own those route by far--from SEA and PDX to ANC)

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
More paycuts might be in the happening.

Am I the only one that LOVES this guy? He's like the retarded little brother that you let hang out just because. You let him come along and try to be nice, but you just know things are going to get funny.

Oh ya, I hope I didn't offend anyone with the retarded comment, I have a retarded brother... he just doesn't know it. He functions pretty well, he's been a CA at ASA for 7 years now.:laugh: (True)
 

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