DAL jumpseat courtesy

[Judge]

Ahhh, I see. Thanks Hair-on-fire. I don't think SWA actually allows anyone else to ride on the FA's 4th, I mean, except the 35,000 employees.

 

[propjob27]

I can't believe some of you guys think a PAYING passenger needs to stop by the cockpit and introduce himself, regardless of what he's wearing.

I've flown for 3 different airlines now that regularly position crews on offline airlines, using paid tickets, and not ONCE have I ever stopped by the cockpit to say anything, whether I was in uniform or not. Nor would I expect, or even want, a paying passenger to stop by my cockpit in a similar situation. I do not in any way consider this to be discourteous to the flight crew. I am generally not rude, or anti social. Unless I'm hammered, and then I'm both. Nonetheless, you have a paid ticket, you board and go to your seat like every other Joe. It doesn't matter that you happen to be an airline pilot, in or out of uniform. If for some reason both of you guys drop dead in the cockpit, and the FA's desperately need someone to land the plane, then they'll make the announcement that's every private pilot's wet dream: "Ladies and Gentleman, do we have any pilots on board?" I mean, come on Striker, haven't you seen Airplane? As a flight crewmember, you really don't need to know that there are some DAL or FedEX or UPS or ATA pilots in back travelling on paid tickets.

Now, if the guy WAS jumpseating, then yes, that was out of line. But you don't even know that he was, or at least you haven't indicated in this thread that you do. And to make a negative post about "DAL's jumpseat courtesy", when in fact the guy probably was NOT EVEN JUMPSEATING in the first place is pretty fuc k in g stupid.

Maybe JetBlue pilots need to realize that many airlines out there use paid tickets on other airlines to move crews around. And yes, they do this even on routes their own airline serves, due to full loads or contractual limitations such as duty day length, etc. And at that point these guys are PASSENGERS NOT JUMPSEATERS.

 

[Caveman]

Is it possible the DAL guy was a paying passenger? Yep. Pigs might fly out of my ass too. The odds heavily favor the guy was a jumpseater and IF he was he should have introduced himself as he boarded. That being said, he is the exception because most DAL pilots I've interacted with while jumpseating (me or them) have been courteous and professional. I wouldn't paint all DAL pilots with the same brush. I'm sure we have our own knucklehead jumpseaters too. One bad apple .........

 

[propjob27]

The odds heavily favor the guy was a jumpseater and IF he was he should have introduced himself as he boarded.

No, they don't. Like I said before, many "big" airlines end up positioning crews on other carriers, for the reasons I stated. There are other reasons too that I didn't mention. For example, if your wife or kid gets sick while you are on a trip, any decent airline will instantly buy you a ticket from wherever you are to wherever they are, on any airline. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.

I did not mean the DAL pilot in question paid for the ticket out of his own wallet (though he may have and its completely irrelevant WHO paid for the ticket), I meant DAL may very well have purchased ticket for him for whatever reason. Once you have a paid ticket in your hand, regardless, the need to walk up to the cockpit and show your license, ID, and medical and "ask politely" for ride are instantly over. You get on and off the airplane with all the other people, no matter if you happen to been wearing your uniform or not.

I don't know why the original poster assumed this guy was a jumpseater and started this bu lls hi t thread with the title "DAL Jumpseat courtesy" and a stupid thumbs down symbol, when he has NO IDEA if the pilot in question was actually jumpseating.

One bad apple my ass, the original poster is the one bad apple for starting a thread like this w/o any relevant facts. OOOOooo, the guy was wearing his uniform and didn't stop to say 'hi' to us!!! He must be abusing our jumpseat policy!! Wow, no shi t Dick Tracy. Did you figure that one out all by yourself? Can you do my taxes for me?

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

We should all try to see the Captain. Agreed. It's his/her show and we may need to get bumped to the cockpit at the last minute. Maybe there is some FAA rule about it too.

Don't know what this guy did. Maybe he was on a paid ticket?


What I don't understand---

Why didn't the ops agent let the Captain know he had a "jumpseater"?

Why was the FAA dude such a dork when the "jumpseater's" creditials have to be checked by the ops agent,remember the passport requirement and photo on the computer??

He couldn't sit in the cockpit anyways with the FAA guy's sorry butt there.

 

[propjob27]

We should all try to see the Captain. Agreed.

No, you shouldn't, when you are travelling as a passenger. It doesn't matter if you happen to be wearing a DAL uniform, or jeans and sneakers. If you are a passenger, you have no need to see the captain unless you're some snot faced kid trying to wipe your hands on the throttle quadrant or a passenger with an original and brilliant comment like, "You boys haven't been drinking, have you? Har Harh." Passengers don't see the captain, they board when their row is called and sit down. Then they get off the airplane and may or may not say "byebye" to the FA at the door. And paying passengers don't ever get "bumped back" into the cockpit, airline pilot or not.

Maybe he was on a paid ticket?

Yeah, he probably was, which totally negates his need to see the cockpit crew, and the need for this thread.

Why didn't the ops agent let the Captain know he had a "jumpseater"?

Because there wasn't one on board.

 

[DAL737FO]

I've had two different scenarios play out at AirTran (which always treats me great by the way). The first time I had my DAL flight cancel in MCO so I take off to the AirTran side to try and jumpseat to ATL. When I get to the gate the gate agent wouldn't give me the jumpseat but instead charged me an ID-90 rate to ATL. No big deal I really needed to get to work. So here I am in uniform now a non rev passenger and not a jumpseater taking my assigned seat when the lead FA says the Capt wants to talk to me. He just wanted to know if I was jumpseating and why I hadn't checked in. When I told him what happened he was mad but not at me, at the gate agent for not giving me the jumpseat free seat. (no charge but you have to sit in back).

The second scenario happens all the time. The gate agents assign you a seat at the gate because, as of right now, we can't sit on the jumpseat. As usual it's a zoo in ATL so the gate agent tells me just to go on and take my seat. I instead go up to the cockpit and introduce myself and the Capt tells me that the gate agents do that to them all the time.

My question to you is what did your paperwork say? At DAL when the gate agent comes down with the final paperwork they say something to the effect numbers are good 14, 128 with 1 jumpseater (MD-88 numbers). This is where the Capt would say that the jumpseater hasn't check in with him. So if they didn't tell you the guy in uniform was a jumpseater then my guess is that he wasn't.

DAL737FO

 

[flying bubba]

Prop, what part of the statement I made earlier, "he was just bumming a ride" did you not understand. I said he was sitting next to one of our pilots in the back who had confirmed that he was a nonrev. He did not occupy a jumpseat or was going to. As far as riding in the cockpit, he still could have as a CASS guy, and we use both cockpit jumpseats for that. I would even appreciated him being there to make small talk with the FAA and keep him busy for us.

 

[USNFDX]

When jumpseating I always ask and bring cookies (time permitting).

When I have a paid ticket, I don't stick my head in the cockpit. If every Fedex pilot did that, NWA would be shut down in MEM every Monday morning!

There's always that 2% that just can't seem to follow the rules or do the right thing. I have them at my company, you have them at yours.

Try not to get you panties in a wad..

 

[propjob27]

King, to answer your question, he was just bumming a ride. The funny part was that he sat next to one of our own positive space pilots going to MCO for recurrent training.

Sorry man, I totally missed your post on page two. Completely my mistake.

Since you've plainly stated that he was travelling as a jumpseater, and not with any form of passenger ticket, then yeah, by all means jumpseaters definately need to show their ID, License, and medical (to the anal captains) in order to travel that way.

If for nothing else, the captain has every right to check his master Scab list to make sure the jumpseater's name isn't on it, or just to make sure he isn't someone else he hates, before giving him a free ride.

 

[Helos2Galaxy]

While you are being an a-hole your self blaming the entire DAL work force for not having the proper ettiquette, if he was on an ID-90 or paying ticket, he isn't required to check in with anyone and you owe him and the workforce an apology.

However, if he was on a jumpseat pass, you are correct and he was totally wrong. Considering B6's policy of expecting JSeaters to help your guys scrub the floor during the turn, if he was on a jumpseat pass, he should have been helping you guys with that too.

 

[flying bubba]

No problem buddy, as I stated earlier, not a huge deal, just a little inconsiderate.

Nothing has changed in my mind towards jumpseaters. Any and ALL are welcome, and as always I will take absolutely as many as I can.

Kinda like the school systems these days, "no one gets left behind, no matter what".

 

[propjob27]

Helos2:

Bubba did say on page two of this thread that he confirmed the guy was jumpseat status, not any type paid discount or full fare ticket. (I missed him say that too and felt exactly the way you did, until Bubba pointed out that he'd confirmed it)

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

No, you shouldn't, when you are travelling as a passenger. It doesn't matter if you happen to be wearing a DAL uniform, or jeans and sneakers. If you are a passenger, you have no need to see the captain...

Try to put yourself in the Captain's shoes.

He or She sees you in uniform. They think you may be a jumpseater because of your attire. If you don't check in (with a smile) and say, "Captain, I'm on a paid ticket. If you have a jumpseater, its not me today" you make the Captain search for the agent and ask about you.

Do you really want to make the Captain's job any harder?

Are you really that anti-social you can't spare a few seconds talking to the crew?


If you haven't figured it out, its about impressions. Next thing you know, someone is talking you and your pilot group on www.flightino.com and complaining how rude you are.

 

[mnboyev]

Oh for crying out loud... stop by and say hi.. Had a JB guy fella out of MCO the other day.. His family was full fare and he was JSeating.. Turned out we both worked at NWA back in the day and had a fun chat about ol times.. He was technically a Jumpseater.. nice guy.. Agent sucked of course.. had to 'train' her in... Boy, sure gets old.

Then I had a Fed Ex fella.. nice guy and brought COOKIES.. Full fare Revenue. MEM - ATL.. Nice guy... glad he stopped by, and we got him a better seat......the least we could do on ol tranny.

Worst yet was some ol geezer out of Flint to Atlanta.. he wore suspenders and smelled kinda funny.. Some goofy hat and 4 ragged stripes... poor ol fella. whipped out some kinda badge and medical.. Lord.. the crew kinda got a chuckle out of it. The crew took care of him... I hope the heck I dont have wear suspenders in a few years...

 

[Andy]

Even when I'm a paying customer, I stop up front [if I can get by the FA] and introduce myself, tell them I'm in seat XXX.. This is if I'm in uniform or not. I consider it a courtesy to the flight crew. You never know when an ABP may be needed.

If I'm in uniform [ticketed or not] I ALWAYS stop by the cockpit just to eliminate any assumptions by the flight crew about being curtious or not.

It's just easier to be curtious than not.

B6Guy

I'll have to start doing that ... checking in with the flight deck.

"Hi, I'm Andy, a furloughed UAL pilot who hasn't turned a wheel since 2002. I'm on a full fare ticket and have been upgraded to F, where I'll be pounding down as many CC & 7s as I can get the purser to give me. I've already had a couple in the airport lounge while waiting for this delayed flight just to keep me well oiled. However, if you have an IFE, please don't hesitate to have an FA wake me from my coma so that I can get in the way of the flight crew; I'll be in seat 3C either 'reading' a Penthouse or the Penthouse will be on my face to block out the light (yeah, that's it ... to block out the light)."

No offense B6Guy, just a bit of humor, but that's the way that I travel now. And I'd be willing to bet that I'm not in the minority when traveling on a paid ticket. Ain't no forkin' way I'd ever introduce myself to the flight crew on a paid ticket.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Worst yet was some ol geezer out of Flint to Atlanta.. he wore suspenders and smelled kinda funny.. Some goofy hat and 4 ragged stripes... poor ol fella. whipped out some kinda badge and medical.. Lord.. the crew kinda got a chuckle out of it. The crew took care of him... I hope the heck I dont have wear suspenders in a few years...

Hey, that was me

 

[propjob27]

Try to put yourself in the Captain's shoes.

Ok. Been there, shouldn't be too tough.

He or She sees you in uniform. They think you may be a jumpseater because of your attire.

No, you don't think that. If he does not check in with you, then a captain who has some industry knowledge and awareness will assume that you are on a paid ticket. Hell, if I need to buy an offline ticket to go on vacation somewhere, I might just throw on my uniform just so I can cut in line in security.

If you don't check in (with a smile) and say, "Captain, I'm on a paid ticket. If you have a jumpseater, its not me today" you make the Captain search for the agent and ask about you.

No, you don't. As stated above, you assume the person in question is a paying passenger and has no need to introduce himself.

Do you really want to make the Captain's job any harder?

A captain with industry awareness and knowledge wouldn't spend more than one second thinking about a guy in uniform on his flight who didn't say "Hi" to him. He would realize instantly that was a paying passenger, not a jumpseater.

Are you really that anti-social you can't spare a few seconds talking to the crew?

Generally speaking, your seat assignment, unless it's row 1, is the opposite direction from the cockpit and there is no need to go against the flow of boarding traffic for something that is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

You win Probjob. If you don't want to talk to anyone, then don't.

As far as "anyone with industry knowledge and awareness" being assured of talking to the Captain if jumpseating, you are all wet. Jumpseating etiquette wouldn't be such a hot topic if it was, indeed, observed 100% of the time.


You could still spend a couple of seconds to help the Captain out in the event there is doubt who is jumpseating. But I can tell as a Captain yourself you are not unable, just unwilling....

Yes, it is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY...So is saying hello.

 

[NTS ALL 4]

Navy thing?

Flying Bubba...you got too much time on your hands if you are whinning about an off-line js guy. I really think your hang-up comes at the hands of past Navy training.

 

[roadrunnerblue]

I recently did a flt from JFK to MCO. Kinda busy up front with seven wheelchairs of children from "Make a Wish" going down to Disney, Five Unaccompanied minors, and a full load of pax. In my cockpit jumpseat was FAA doing spot checks. Not your typical loading process but not overwhelming either.
Upon arrival in MCO we are working hard to get everyone off the aircraft when off walks a DAL FO. That was the first I saw of him. He walks by me with a short little "see ya round". No thanks, no introductions, just see ya.
I thought he must have checked in with the FO during boarding, or maybe the lead FA. So I ask both and neither one had even seen or talked to him.
The FAA proceeds to ask me, "you mean you had another airline pilot onboard and you didnt even know about it?"
What can I say? Uh no.
He proceeds to tell me that I have to know these things and that I should be more aware of who is on my aircraft in case of emergencies, etc.
After it was all over, all I could think of was that this all could have been avoided with a 10 second hello from this guy. Apparently, the nonreving etiquette for DAL doesnt require this. I guess from now on I will be a little more alert as to offline personnel on the aircraft (because we have so much time on our hands to watch everyone board).
Sorry for the rant but I just had to voice this.
Lastly, JB has one of these finest jumpseat policies in the business, please dont abuse us, or treat us like proverbial red headed stepchildren. (sorry if youre a redhead.)

Thanks

This kind of behaviour is fostered by JetBlue jumpseat policies. No introduction to the Captain is required per the FOM if the person was given a seat in the cabin. The lack of respect for the Captain and the lack of decorum in general at JBU has been an issue for a long time. And Capt... Sir, do not forget to clean the cabin!

 

[propjob27]

This kind of behavior is fostered by JetBlue jumpseat policies. No introduction to the Captain is required per the FOM if the person was given a seat in the cabin.

Hey man, cool news. Next time I jumpseat on JetBlue, I'll just head in back and sit down. Then when I get a dirty look from the cockpit crew, I'll just point out this fact. You got a page number that I can site?

No seriously, does the manual actually say "No introduction is required from the jumpseater...." or does it simply omit the statement "An introduction IS required...". The reason I ask is, I can't remember if any of the various airlines I've flown for actually said in print, in the FOM, "The captain is required to check all jumpseaters credientials..." because it was always assumed that this was an industry necessity.

I'd grab my FOM and see if ours acutally spells out that the captain must see the jumpseaters credientials, but I haven't opened it in 6 months and I don't want to break that streak.

 

[skiandsurf]

No seriously, does the manual actually say "No introduction is required from the jumpseater...." or does it simply omit the statement "An introduction IS required...". The reason I ask is, I can't remember if any of the various airlines I've flown for actually said in print, in the FOM, "The captain is required to check all jumpseaters credientials..." because it was always assumed that this was an industry necessity.
.

As a long time Jetblue Jumpseater, first I want to say thanks for the rides, yes even if it is the FA jumpseat next to the lav.

But to push this button, arent all employees considered "crew-members"? If I check in with the "crew-member" at the ticket counter, doesnt this fullfill the obligation with "checking in with the crew"? If I check in with that crewmember and they give me a seat assignment, I am good as gold.

 

[Networ-King]

Wrrrroooonngggg.....

The js is soley the responsibility of the captain.... both in the cockpit or in the back. You should always check in with him/her if your wanting a js. Agents have told me both in the states and overseas that I have a seat in the back and there is no need to check in with the pilot.....I politely acknowledge them and then head straight for the cockpit and still ask permission. Now for B6Guy and Bubba.... I really don't know what you guys are smoking to think that every shmuck in a uniform that is on a paid ticket should check in with the flightdeck, but whatever it is you're smoking, puff puff give.... you're f$ckin up the rotatioin......:laugh: .

Bubba....

Your company should still have that DAL FO's name that jumpseated on your plane in the paperwork, so get his name and pass it on to the DAL jumpseat coordinator and let them take care of the problem internally so it doesn't happen again. THAT IS, IF HE WAS TRUELY ON A JUMPSEAT PASS AND NOT A PAID TICKET............

 

[Spectre]

I recently did a flt from JFK to MCO. Kinda busy up front with seven wheelchairs of children from "Make a Wish" going down to Disney, Five Unaccompanied minors, and a full load of pax. In my cockpit jumpseat was FAA doing spot checks. Not your typical loading process but not overwhelming either.
Upon arrival in MCO we are working hard to get everyone off the aircraft when off walks a DAL FO. That was the first I saw of him. He walks by me with a short little "see ya round". No thanks, no introductions, just see ya.
I thought he must have checked in with the FO during boarding, or maybe the lead FA. So I ask both and neither one had even seen or talked to him.
The FAA proceeds to ask me, "you mean you had another airline pilot onboard and you didnt even know about it?"
What can I say? Uh no.
He proceeds to tell me that I have to know these things and that I should be more aware of who is on my aircraft in case of emergencies, etc.
After it was all over, all I could think of was that this all could have been avoided with a 10 second hello from this guy. Apparently, the nonreving etiquette for DAL doesnt require this. I guess from now on I will be a little more alert as to offline personnel on the aircraft (because we have so much time on our hands to watch everyone board).
Sorry for the rant but I just had to voice this.
Lastly, JB has one of these finest jumpseat policies in the business, please dont abuse us, or treat us like proverbial red headed stepchildren. (sorry if youre a redhead.)

Thanks

Maybe he knows your FOM better than you do. Please reference your JB FOM on jumpseating policy as you the Captain are not required to check on credentials of ANY jumpseaters who occupy a passenger seat. This information is gathered by the gate agents when they assign them a seat. You are required to check on their attire if they are occupying the #5 or 6 jumpseats. Furthermore, if they are riding in the cockpit, then you would check their passport, ID's etc, and have the "CASS APPROVED" verbiage from the GSC.

Think about it, do you ask all the jumpseating flight attendants for their new FAA ID if they are riding in the back with an assigned seat? Then, why would you require such credentials from your fellow pilots?

I always brief my F1 that if the jumpseaters have an assigned seat, they are welcome to say HI to the cockpit crew, but don't have to. If you want to check his/her ID's, go ahead, but you certainly are not required to do so. You could have shown your FAA jumpseater our FOM and told him that either he or one of his buddies approved our liberal jumpseat policy.

To close, I once had around 15 non-reving pilots and flight attendants from SLC-JFK. If I had to check everyone's credentials, we'd be sitting at the gate another 20 minutes. That is why the FOM relieves us of this duty and assigns it to the GSC when passenger seats are available. Heck, we could have 2 paying customers and 154 jumpseaters on our planes. That's our policy and I LIKE IT!

 

[Diesel]

Good to see it was confirmed that this guy was a Delta pilot. Like Batsky said NJ pilots airline a lot. I airline in uniform because when the baggage handlers lose my bag and sometimes they do at least I've got what I need to do a trip.

I've had the verbal dress down too, the no food from the FA's, I usually smile, chuckle and show them the Y class full fare ticket that my company purchased about 3 hours before this trip. Plus the platinum status in the right hand corner usually helps too.

Not going to say hi though. I want my warm nuts, my club soda and whatever is passing for a meal these days. Although the chicken quesidillia is pretty damn good on DAL lately.

Besides the authority of the captain is basically down to 0. It's the gate agent and the lead FA who run the ship. The good old days are gone when the FA's would actually listen to the captain.

 

[propjob27]

Good to see it was confirmed that this guy was a Delta pilot.

Yes it is good to confirm that, because it turns out from reading all these posts that the DAL pilot did absolutely nothing wrong and perfectly followed JetBlue's FOM w/ respect to jumpseating.

Besides the authority of the captain is basically down to 0. It's the gate agent and the lead FA who run the ship. The good old days are gone when the FA's would actually listen to the captain.

It might be gone at Net Jets (do you guys have an FA on those things? Ohh wait, yeah, the FO), but at the last 4 part 121 passenger airlines I flew for, it definitely was far from gone. I mean yeah, they aren't begging to f uc k you on the layovers anymore (you have to get them really drunk first), but they still certainly listen to you on the airplane. They don't really have a choice. If they piss you off enough, they know someone is getting off the airplane, and it ain't gonna be you.

Having said all that, I was never the kind of captain that felt the need to bark orders at anyone during day to day operations. We're not up there saving the world anymore, flying airplanes that fall apart every 3rd hour, etc. But I definitely found that I was "listened" to and "complied" with when necessary.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Yes it is good to confirm that, because it turns out from reading all these posts that the DAL pilot did absolutely nothing wrong and perfectly followed JetBlue's FOM w/ respect to jumpseating.quote]

Look, it's just common courtesy to check in with the Captain if you are an offline jumpseater. 'Nuff said. The FOM says the Captain is not required to check credentials on offline jumpseaters if they occupy a seat in the cabin, yet that doesn't relieve the jumpseater of what is an accepted courtesy throughout the industry to thank the Captain for the ride. This is only an issue because a jb pilot posted it, and without much anger or bitterness I might add. Besides, the FOM says the Captain is not required to check (he can still check) -- sorry, Spectre, but every Captain I have flown with has always briefed "I want to see all offline jumpseaters." Again, it's the Captain's prerogative as I see it, even if the jumpseater is sitting in the cabin.

As for helping to clean the cabin -- it is not required and no jumpseater should ever be asked to do so. Many flight attendants help because they are happy we offer a jumpseat perk that most do not.

 

[Anaconda]

The odds heavily favor the guy was a jumpseater and IF he was he should have introduced himself as he boarded. That being said, he is the exception because most DAL pilots I've interacted with while jumpseating (me or them) have been courteous and professional.

I have to respectfully disagree here. When you stated he was DAL that pretty much summed it up. Hands down the biggest snobs in the industry when it comes to jumpseating (at least on my DAL Conx carrier). Granted, not all of them are like that, but truly nice and professional ones are the exception not the rule.

FWIW, our ops man states the jumpseater is encouraged, but not required, to check in with the captain when riding in the back.

 

[Diesel]

Yeah we have FA's. But the FA's know at the 121 world they are on their own. Once the cockpit door is closed they are out in the wild west.

My mom was a Pan Am FA for 20 years. Back then the captain got his own limo, the FO and FE got theirs and the FA's got theirs. Per diem was a wad of cash waiting for them at their 5 day layover in Paris.

Ahh the good times.