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JonnyKnoxville
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Wow! you must think the whole Comair pilot group is out to screw you, huh?
The only pilots with policy-making power at Comair have no intention of ever leaving Comair. They have that kind of power because they have been here way too long (like 18 years). Anyone that has been here less than about seven to eight years is just a little pawn along for the ride trying to build time and get out. I am very sorry we did not help you out at the time it was needed but I was not making the company policies (come to think of it, I was not even here then!) and niether were the rest of the junior pilot group.
Here is the situation. You have a group of pilots that had no problem hiring Delta furloughees (ASA) and another group (Comair) that has a leader that puts it in writing that they have a problem hiring Delta furloughees without seniority number resignation. Unless of course Delta relaxes it's scope then we can work something out. So what group do you think is going to get the interviews when the worm turns? As for not making company policies, Comair reversed it's decision at the request of it's union about two years later but only after Delta started recalling it's furloughees. So apparently you did have a say. Too little too late.
~~~^~~~
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You are wrong on the details. CMR wanted BRAND SCOPE which would have made Delta scope STRONGER.
If you look around DL you will see these new airplanes that look a whole lot like 737's with winglets pulled up to gates. These are not flown by Delta pilots, or even ALPA members. They fly because the Delta MEC made scope a free for all on the Connection level. The Comair MEC saw Delta's future and wanted a role in trying to stop the whipsaw that now even the Delta pilots must engage in on the low end of their equipment. The Comair and Delta MEC should have worked together.
Also, Comair is run by Delta Management, not pilots. If you want to change Comair policies, why nojt bring it up at the table when you are negotiating with Delta Management?
Finally, management hires the pilots. As an ASA pilot, I would love it if I got called first, but Comair guys probably has as good a shot as we do with Delta's hiring managers.
I do not understand how intelligent and rational Delta pilots hold some of the grudges they hold when the truth is that scope would be stronger if those effected had a role in crafting and negotiating their flying.
DAL737FO and General, are you guys happy to see Mesa, Skywest and Shuttle America doing your flying? It seems you would have a common concern with the Comair pilots who are now one week away from a strike (or very bad legal precedent that will effect everyone eventually). If Comair walks, Delta is back in serious trouble, quick.
Actually, that's not true. A couple of the CMR reps met with Captain Buergey and requested a relaxation of scope. No mention of brand scope.
rtmcfi
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acarpe3448
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BILL LUMBERG
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BS......keep chugging the RJDC koolaid!!! What gives Comair the right to want anything from us!!
Actually, when Delta lost that flying it was given to you at ASA, which you now point the finger downhill at the Mesas and Chatauquas and Shuttles and say they took YOUR flying........remember a horse can pull many carts and should you forget, you are the cart BEHIND the horse....not the other way around.....
PuffDriver
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Delta's scope would not have been made stronger. That is merely a figment of a few deluded pilots' opinions. "Working together", as you put it, meant that the Delta MEC needed to capitulate to the delusional Comair MEC and the fabricated negotiating power they think that they had. Didn't work out very good for the Comair MEC. That Armada of RJs are now expensive paperweights. The 70 seaters are going away, and soon a judge will do what a couple of other judges have done--kill a strike.
As for hiring, I personally hold no bias, and have indeed recommended a Comair pilot with whom I have jumpseated on several times. By chance, he was not around when the RJDC took over Comair, as he is 2 year f/o. However, those that sat by and actively supported the RJDC, or sat by to "see what would happen" have played their pair of twos.
Legal precedent if a judge orders the Comair pilots to work? I think not, the precedent has already been set--three times as a matter of fact. Or perhaps, just perhaps, Delta will wink, wink, nod, nod the judge and Comair will be no more. Who knows? Either way, Delta already knows what it is going to do I would imagine.
Like it or not, it's going to happen.
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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Actually that's not true. That is the DALPA spin.
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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Using that logic, what right do ANY of us have wanting anthing from any other group? What right do you have to want your furloughs to go to ASA or CMR? What right do the USAirways pilots have to get super-seniority at PSA?
Are you saying that the Delta pilots have a "right" to get something from us, but we don't have any "rights" to request something in return?
Ya'll have have tuned this whole thread around about Comair, who cares, just apply, but your senior a-holes at Comair screwed most of ya'll when they wanted to be on the same seniority as Delta pilots, which is crazy. Just thank them. I know your going to say well I was not even hired yet when that was happening, but you took the job there. I know alot of Delta pilots and all the ones I know don't like the Comair guys, Period.
But lets get this thread back on track, and Comair guys, stop your bitching
But lets get this thread back on track, and Comair guys, stop your bitching
Don't get let the facts get in the way of Fin's rhetoric, he doesn't.
michael707767
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Frankly, once we give up an airplane via scope, do you think at that point we have the negotiating leverage to determine who will fly it? If we had that kind of leverage, we would be flying it.
General Lee
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Easy there chief. There are A LOT of DL pilots who were very mad at the Comair guys back then. We had just helped them out during their strike (the best way we could after Pres Bush told us we couldn't strike), and provided a lot of money (just like every ALPA airline), and then the guys who were furloughed felt like they got krapped on, and a lot of us still flying thought the same way. The ASA guys didn't seem to mind helping our guys in their time of need, and I hope we hired many of them now.
Bye Bye--General Lee
Sorry, John, but you're trying to cover up what actually happened. What I said is exactly what I was told by the CMR reps who actually sat in front of Captain Buergey and made the request.
ACL65PILOT
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uba757
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As a formally furloughed Delta pilot, I am against hiring Comair pilots for the simple reason of their policy of resignation before they would hire us while furloughed.
Let's be honest, most furloughees were not going to give up thier recall rights to fly for Comair. Most of us either did the military or commuter thing and we were lucky, and skillful, to get the job at DAL. To demand resignation would be similar in asking a major league baseball player to give up any rights to return to the majors to go play at some AAA team while on injured reserve. My time at the commuters, and at another major before Delta were spent with 100% perception that these companies were stepping stone jobs to get to one of the "Big Three" airlines--that was my, and most of the furloughees, goals and career aspirations. To require giving this achievement up to step back was unrealistic and unrequired by Comair and the Comair Union.
I understand ASA also had a similar requirement in place when the furloughs commenced at Delta; the MEC and pilot group realized this and worked with their management to change the policy to help us. Comair pilots did not change until (1) Delta was recalling furloughed pilots and was, at the time, required to return all Delta furloughees under a set schedule; (2) Letter 46 was signed at Delta, in which Comair and others could recieve 76 seat aircraft in exchange for hiring furlougees without resignation. Only then was Comair willing to change their policy--not to help out the furloughees, but to caputre the 76 seat flying.
The argument posed by Comair pilots is, "the senior Comair pilots made the decisions. I was junior and didn't have a say." doesn't work. The Union represents the pilots and works on behalf of the pilot group, NOT the other way around. Every Comair pilot has a say, and the majority at Comair still rules, not the Totalitarian leadership that many Comair pilots now claim is in place.
I was lucky. I found a secure job outside of aviation making good money, home every night, and have developed a skill set transferrable to any mid- or large-scale company. I now have a viable "backup" plan should the industry go into the crapper. That being said, I still disagree with the Comair pilots on their treatment of us, and I believe my opion is in majority of all Delta pilots--both furloughed and those that weren't.
Did I support Comair during their strike? I paid dues, and at the request of my LEC sat at my local airport (RDU) on my days off making sure that none of the Comair scheduled flying was being done by other feeders, i.e. flying struck work. Yet during my and my fellow pilots time of need, no reciprication was given.
A long term view from the Comair pilots group could have helped them now, when Delta is poised to hire 200 this year and 400+ next year.
Let's be honest, most furloughees were not going to give up thier recall rights to fly for Comair. Most of us either did the military or commuter thing and we were lucky, and skillful, to get the job at DAL. To demand resignation would be similar in asking a major league baseball player to give up any rights to return to the majors to go play at some AAA team while on injured reserve. My time at the commuters, and at another major before Delta were spent with 100% perception that these companies were stepping stone jobs to get to one of the "Big Three" airlines--that was my, and most of the furloughees, goals and career aspirations. To require giving this achievement up to step back was unrealistic and unrequired by Comair and the Comair Union.
I understand ASA also had a similar requirement in place when the furloughs commenced at Delta; the MEC and pilot group realized this and worked with their management to change the policy to help us. Comair pilots did not change until (1) Delta was recalling furloughed pilots and was, at the time, required to return all Delta furloughees under a set schedule; (2) Letter 46 was signed at Delta, in which Comair and others could recieve 76 seat aircraft in exchange for hiring furlougees without resignation. Only then was Comair willing to change their policy--not to help out the furloughees, but to caputre the 76 seat flying.
The argument posed by Comair pilots is, "the senior Comair pilots made the decisions. I was junior and didn't have a say." doesn't work. The Union represents the pilots and works on behalf of the pilot group, NOT the other way around. Every Comair pilot has a say, and the majority at Comair still rules, not the Totalitarian leadership that many Comair pilots now claim is in place.
I was lucky. I found a secure job outside of aviation making good money, home every night, and have developed a skill set transferrable to any mid- or large-scale company. I now have a viable "backup" plan should the industry go into the crapper. That being said, I still disagree with the Comair pilots on their treatment of us, and I believe my opion is in majority of all Delta pilots--both furloughed and those that weren't.
Did I support Comair during their strike? I paid dues, and at the request of my LEC sat at my local airport (RDU) on my days off making sure that none of the Comair scheduled flying was being done by other feeders, i.e. flying struck work. Yet during my and my fellow pilots time of need, no reciprication was given.
A long term view from the Comair pilots group could have helped them now, when Delta is poised to hire 200 this year and 400+ next year.
ACL65PILOT
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ACL65PILOT
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The notion that you as a junior pilot having no say if false. Every pilot in good standing has one vote and only one.
Look in to the ALPA bylaws on how the unions leadership is elected. You elect status reps who in turn elect the leadership.
This is something that is governed by the ALPA national by laws. If you do not like what is going on speak up. If you are not willing to get involved you do not have a right to complain when something is going on that you do not like.
The argument that paying your dues should be enough if false as well. Those dues are there to help pilot groups out that need more money that that group can bring in. It is like an insurance policy. Plus, they pay for really cool ads in the USA today.
That said, what Lawson did to the DAL pilots was wrong. I know many people that went to World and had to resign their seniority at their major. Fact is that many majors did not recognize these letters. Those guys and gals got to go back. I am not sure if DAL was that way. I think the idea of hiring furloughed pilots was a great idea. It is like planned obsolesce for the regionals.
my .02
Look in to the ALPA bylaws on how the unions leadership is elected. You elect status reps who in turn elect the leadership.
This is something that is governed by the ALPA national by laws. If you do not like what is going on speak up. If you are not willing to get involved you do not have a right to complain when something is going on that you do not like.
The argument that paying your dues should be enough if false as well. Those dues are there to help pilot groups out that need more money that that group can bring in. It is like an insurance policy. Plus, they pay for really cool ads in the USA today.
That said, what Lawson did to the DAL pilots was wrong. I know many people that went to World and had to resign their seniority at their major. Fact is that many majors did not recognize these letters. Those guys and gals got to go back. I am not sure if DAL was that way. I think the idea of hiring furloughed pilots was a great idea. It is like planned obsolesce for the regionals.
my .02
Where did you get this information? As of a couple days before the interviews started the list for interviewee's had 0 comair pilots and the only one's with a possibility were legacies. Additionally the board stated that less than 20% of the applicants were former military so that would lead you to believe that a lot of regional pilots will get a call. I do believe that a good many ASA pilots have gotten interviews though.
PeanuckleCRJ
Hurrrrrrrr
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The makeup on my interview day was 1 Pinnacle (me- duh), 1 Shuttle America, 1 Eagle, 2 AirTran that were both former ASA, and the other 4 were ASA.
All except the trannies were current captains- the trannies had been captains at ASA before they left. All except for 1 AirTran were hired- everyone was extremely professional and obviously well qualified for the job.
All except the trannies were current captains- the trannies had been captains at ASA before they left. All except for 1 AirTran were hired- everyone was extremely professional and obviously well qualified for the job.
ACL65PILOT
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ACL65PILOT
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