DAL & CAL... In a perfect World

[whymeworry?]

At this stage there isn't any comparison, DAL is better hands down. From their corporate policies, to how they treat pilots with respect, to the pilot advocates they have in training and the CPO, no contract at CAL will get us up the the DAL level. It will take a shift in mgmt philosophy. But at this stage neither carrier is hiring so the information isn't relevant for you right now. By the time the hiring starts, both carriers could be completely different. At that time you would need to seriously review where you will be at in the hiring wave and how that will play out with respect to retirements, etc.

As far as why CAL's contract sucks. At the time, our union was run by the most incompetent, maliciously maligned pilots in union history. THAT is how we ended up with this pathetic contract. They were investigated by the FBI, DOJ, and DOL if that explains the level of greed. All those guys are gone (the head of our MEC Negotiating Committee joined mgmt... what does that tell you about the corrpution?) and we're firmly positioned for the battle ahead.

We will get a better contract. And it will far exceed anything DAL has to offer at the moment if we don't give up an inch of our "final offer" opener.

Whatever the CEO says in the press has zero bearing on whether we get the contact we deserve. Would you expect an American CEO to say anything else than what Smisek is claiming? Besides, that article was complete BS. He doesn't have a care in the world about the plight of any employee at CAL. The whole "Dignity and Respect" company mantra is a joke. Thanks to the company's petty antics (mostly coming from the various CPOs), we are now more unified than we've ever been in our airline's history. Once the NMB releases us (this will be sooner than y'all think), the the exec mgmt team won't have much choice. They can either tear down everything they've worked hard to build by forcing a strike/ job action, or they can face the music that the loan is due... NOW. But they're not going to give it away. We have to fight. And we will.

 

[AAflyer]

Delta!



AA

 

[BID]

cybourg10, you are saying that our current contract proposal is sub par to Delta's current contract?? Hope not! I am not all too familiar with Delta's contract.

It's the pension you guys! CAL gave up everything to save the pension.

I am curious, what kind of retirement is at Delta? Do you guys still have a pension? At CAL, lump sum is still going out, well for the time being. Our pension is frozen and will probably disappear.

So Express jet reserve rules are better than CAL, yes that is a fact! But what about your retirement? I have no doubt our reserve rules will improve, it will be better than yours or worse case just as good. Can you say the same about your retirement?

I am certainly not an aviation expert and I agree with just about everything that has been written here. However, I don't think CAL is as bad as many here make it out to be. Granted, I am not on reserve thank GOD! On a side note, I will never ever vote for any scope relief. I will work under this POS contract until I retire before I vote for any scope relief.

I work with some awesome pilots and crew members. I also fly some really great airplanes, to some great destinations. I am not saying CAL is better than Delta, because it is not. But to be perfectly honest, I am happy at this time to be at CAL. I truly believe things will change here. New contract and LAX base will certainly help!!

 

[GogglesPisano]

CAL's scope clause beats DAL's any day of the week and twice on Sundays. No doubt about that.

 

[cybourg10]

cybourg10, you are saying that our current contract proposal is sub par to Delta's current contract?? Hope not! I am not all too familiar with Delta's contract.

It's the pension you guys! CAL gave up everything to save the pension.

I am curious, what kind of retirement is at Delta? Do you guys still have a pension? At CAL, lump sum is still going out, well for the time being. Our pension is frozen and will probably disappear.

So Express jet reserve rules are better than CAL, yes that is a fact! But what about your retirement? I have no doubt our reserve rules will improve, it will be better than yours or worse case just as good. Can you say the same about your retirement?

I am certainly not an aviation expert and I agree with just about everything that has been written here. However, I don't think CAL is as bad as many here make it out to be. Granted, I am not on reserve thank GOD! On a side note, I will never ever vote for any scope relief. I will work under this POS contract until I retire before I vote for any scope relief.

I work with some awesome pilots and crew members. I also fly some really great airplanes, to some great destinations. I am not saying CAL is better than Delta, because it is not. But to be perfectly honest, I am happy at this time to be at CAL. I truly believe things will change here. New contract and LAX base will certainly help!!

BID I'm glad your happy at CAL (commuting to reserve is hell for your coworkers), I hope to be your FO there someday but things need to change. Yes you guys have the best scope in the industry, keep it that way and improve it (Nothing over 30 seat flown by regionals?).

Retirement-I get 4% match plus another 2.5% defined contribution at XJT and that is at year 4. At 10 years it is 6% match and 5% DC (maxes out at 6% at 20 yrs). Our retirement is not as good as CAL's and never will be, most guys won't retire here. I'm glad you still have your pension but I never want to have a pension honestly, I don't trust it will be there when I need it.

The proposal has decent pay rates but the work rules, although an improvement, are still very much lacking DAL or AA or SWA. So yes your proposal is not up to par with other legacies. Ask your rep for a copy of the proposal so you can see for yourself. CAL has great crews and hopefully you guys can get what you deserve.

 

[densoo]

It's the pension you guys! CAL gave up everything to save the pension...... At CAL, lump sum is still going out, well for the time being. Our pension is frozen and will probably disappear.

Whose pension? Bottom third got zero, middle third got next to that.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Whose pension? Bottom third got zero, middle third got next to that.

The scabs are taken care of though. It's our own fault. They are treated a lot better than they deserve to be treated.

 

[BID]

Whose pension? Bottom third got zero, middle third got next to that.

I said it was frozen.

 

[densoo]

I said it was frozen.

I got a little confused on that part of your post. You said it was frozen and will probably disappear. Anything could happen in the next round.

 

[Furloughed80]

The proposal has decent pay rates but the work rules, although an improvement, are still very much lacking DAL or AA or SWA

After reading our current proposal I would have to say that this statement is completely false. Please post what work rules in place at AA and DAL far exceed CAL's proposal.