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CVR? can the DO pull it at any time?

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classof75

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 1, 2003
Posts
47
I work for a 121 airline.
We have a new DO who has a unique way of doing things.
He has recently (secretely) pulled the cvr tapes and received the transscipts of a recording during a particular take off.
The aircraft was not damaged in any way the only problem was that there was an inoperative instrument which the crew did not detect until after starting the take off role....the captain elected to continue the take off.
The new D.O. wants to fire this captain.

Under the regs can the D.O pull the cvr tapes for his own private enjoyment when the aircraft has not been damaged in anyway?
 
yes it was a take off role but I think the main issue here is does a D.O. have the right to listen to the cvr and produce a transcript.

Is the faa and the ntsb ok with just anyone pulling the cvr?
 
it depends on your airline and your contract, but nothing in the FARs that i am aware of DOESN'T allow your company to pull and review CVRs and use them against you. the only rules are the FAA can't use the info to go after you, nothing about your company... so unless your contract etc. forbids it then i think he had the right.

now what your pilot group feels about it, and the backlash he might create might not be worth his actions... but that is a different story.
 
classof75 said:
yes it was a take off role but I think the main issue here is does a D.O. have the right to listen to the cvr and produce a transcript.

Is the faa and the ntsb ok with just anyone pulling the cvr?
Click to expand...

you must of inhaled back in the classof75. Thankfully, it's been so long, it won't show up on a recent drug test. Anyways, the crew's takeoff role would be to line up on the centerline, advance the thrust levers, yadda, yadda, yadda. I think you want roll.
 
As has often been pointed out before, this is a Message Board, not a Spelling Bee.

I was a lot more interested in the topic than your ill-advised study of homophones (and, no, that's not a Nokia that has the ringer set to "It's Raining Men").:rolleyes:
 
our contract does not allow it to be used againist the pilot. As was pointed out the backlash from the pilot group might be the way to go.



(Scuba...I corrected the spelling mistake prior to your post)
 
ALPA can file a grievance and probably get this guy's job back if he does get fired. If the FAA gets wind of this and wants to get involved, it could backfire on the DO. We had a new DO who tried similar sh1t and he didn't last but about 6 months. Either way, not a good way to do business with your pilots...
 
Umm, dumb question but how did the CVR tape get preserved. Most are only 30 minutes long and unless the crew made an immediate return and pulled the C/B or shut off electrical power rather quickly it should have over ridden itself. Sounds like there is more to the story than we are getting.

~DC
 
Donsa320 said:
Umm, dumb question but how did the CVR tape get preserved. Most are only 30 minutes long and unless the crew made an immediate return and pulled the C/B or shut off electrical power rather quickly it should have over ridden itself. Sounds like there is more to the story than we are getting.

~DC
Click to expand...

Most new CVRs record at least two hours. I've been told second hand some have found that they record a lot longer than that. The other thing is with the new flight recorders there are no secrets on new aircraft. No matter what you have done there is a record, with some reports sent via ACARS.
 
FoxHunter said:
Most new CVRs record at least two hours. I've been told second hand some have found that they record a lot longer than that. The other thing is with the new flight recorders there are no secrets on new aircraft. No matter what you have done there is a record, with some reports sent via ACARS.
Click to expand...

Ah, yeah, but his bio says 73, 75, 76....sounds like period equipment to me, not state of the art. We'll see what he says.

~DC
 
canyonblue737 said:
...but nothing in the FARs that i am aware of DOESN'T allow your company to pull and review CVRs...
Click to expand...

Trying to follow the thread...should this say: "nothing in the FAR's....which would prevent your company....


I'm thrown by the 'doesn't allow' :-)
 
Companies can and do listen to their CVR's at will. Some contracts stipulate that the CVR will not be used against a pilot. However, ASA has published memos to let pilots know that the CVR's will be reviewed from time to time and any irregularities followed up on.
 
classof75 said:
I work for a 121 airline.
We have a new DO who has a unique way of doing things.
He has recently (secretely) pulled the cvr tapes and received the transscipts of a recording during a particular take off.
The aircraft was not damaged in any way the only problem was that there was an inoperative instrument which the crew did not detect until after starting the take off role....the captain elected to continue the take off.
The new D.O. wants to fire this captain.

Under the regs can the D.O pull the cvr tapes for his own private enjoyment when the aircraft has not been damaged in anyway?
Click to expand...

The answer is no. These are very protected recordings and while flight data can be looked at by the carrier the cvr data may not. I think only the NTSB can and then the FAA but only for accident investigation purposes. The NTSB defines acidents. Your DO will have to find another reason to fire the guy. Personally I would love to be fired for unathorized cvr data. If you are not a union carrier I would contact an attorney.
 
ultrarunner said:
No different than companies monitoring their employees use of email, etc..
Click to expand...

Well, yea there is a difference. It is one thing to write an e-mail, another to carry on a casual conversation with a person you are sitting next to for hours at a time.
 
ultrarunner said:
No different than companies monitoring their employees use of email, etc..
Click to expand...

That would be recording of the ACARS. Pulling the CVR is equivalent to recording what goes on in an emmployee's office.

The FARs only prohibit the FAA and NTSB from listening without cause (accident/incident.)


This DO sounds like a hell of a guy.
 
Thank you for the constructive input.
Can see one point to specific paragraph in the regs or some ntsb policy.

I have called the faa hotline and they have requested the trip number / date / N-number etc.

Yes, this DO is bad news.
 
Another thing to consider, once the aircraft moves by its own power it is considered to be in flight. If this instrument failed on the takeoff roll then the plane per FARs is considered to be in flight, so shouldnt you just write it up when you arrive in your destination. Since it failed in flight and is no different than a light burning out in flight

Just an opinon, and if I am quoting the fars incorrectly I apologize

D
 

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