Cs/nja

sandyPAN

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I need help. I have itnterviews coming up at both places. A week ago it was a no brainer but now I'm not sure. CS does not pay for health care, or crew meals, you only get 1 week vacation for 5 years and they don"t have sick days. You also have to go to training on your days off. Starting pay is 35k and upgrade is about a year starting at 64k, and no Union.
NJA starts at 39k if the contract gets signed but I think upgrade will be very long now and 5 yr pay for FO is only 47k.

What do you folks think?
Do you think CS will follow?
 
B

buttercup

It depends where you live.. YOU DO NOT WANT TO COMMUTE!! Been there ,done that!! If fortunate enough to be offered a job with both I'd go with Citation Shares IF AND ONLY IF they have a pilot base where you live!! You will see a much faster upgrade there too.. If however, you live where CS doesn't have a base I'd go with Netjets since you can pretty much be based anywhere now. Good luck to you! Oh did I mention that COMMUTING SUCKS!!
 

Hawkered

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Come to Netjets. I just read on our in-house message board that we're gettin' 119 new aircraft!!!
 

Correcting

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5 to 7
NJA is a no-brainer. Think about all that stuff you pay for at CS and factor that into your pay at NJA. I'd be shocked if it took you 5 years to upgrade at NJA if you got hired here in the near future. If it took you that long, you would be doing something wrong.
 

hydrarkt

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go to NJA

Sandy,
If you don't know it yet... our Union just came to a tentative agreement with management.....
Here is a little info contained in the agreement

1st year FO guranteed base wage
Normal (7 and 7) Schedule: $39,000
Reserve (18 day) Schedule: $46,300

5th year First Officer-guaranteed base wage:
Normal (7 and 7) Schedule: $47,400
Reserve (18 day) Schedule: $56,200


1st year Captain-guaranteed base wage:
Normal (7 and 7) Schedule: $52,000
Reserve (18 day) Schedule: $62,300

5th year Captain-guaranteed base wage:
Normal (7 and 7) Schedule: $90,000
Reserve (18 day) Schedule: $106,800

10th year Captain-guaranteed base wage:
Normal (7 and 7) Schedule: $106,000
Reserve (18 day) Schedule: $125,800

NJA provides full medical, dental and vision. Also, we have a 50% match on 15% of contributed pay for the 401k.

Training is on company time.

12 sick days per year.

90% of the pilots are guaranteed a 7 and 7 schedule. The rest will be on the higher paying reserve. I'm sure that there will be no problem getting the 7 and 7 because there will be many volunteers for the reserve schedule.

We get crew food paid for during working duty days...eg.. if you are flying, they feed you. If you sit at the fbo not doing anything, you pay. But that rarely happens. You get 2 weeks vacation (equals 6 weeks because of the 7 and 7). After 5 years, you get 3 weeks (equals 9 weeks).

We have a new, GREAT Union that secured a good TA and represents us wonderfully.

With this new TA, coming to NJA is the best choice.
I probably would not have said this 3 days ago...
 
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ghostrider64

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many
A word of caution regarding NJA. There has been no contract ratified as of yet. If you choose to come here come with open eyes and don't fall for promises thaqt many in our ranks fell for.

That said if the info that is being released now is correct you must be hired prior to ratification in order to have home basing. After ratification we haven't been told yet but if it resembles the past TA you will have to work from one of 5 or 6 places.

Good luck with your interview and decisions. Also this new contract will be for 5 years. If it sucks we will be stuck with it for quite sometime.
 

infoman

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Sandypan

During my Jan 05 company recurrent, I asked one of the ground instructors about gorwth forcast. His numbers where to expect 2500 additional pilots over 5 years. For what its worth.
So there is no confusion. I work at NJA.
Total pilots at that time approx 1900.

Have a Happy.
infoman.
 

infoman

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Hydrarkt,

Yes you are correct. I was useing JAN 05 numbers.
Basically I was saying take 1900 add 2500 over 5 years. Pilot group in 2010 would be 4700. Remeber these are FORECASTED numbers.

Have a Happy.
infoman
 

flyfish

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I would strongly recommend coming here to Netjets, I have always enjoyed the work..and with our new contract, life just got a whole lot better!
 

Jetz

God bless America
Joined
Apr 12, 2002
Posts
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'Nuf
?

hydrarkt said:
Sandy,
If you don't know it yet... our Union just came to a tentative agreement with management.....
Here is a little info contained in the agreement

1st year FO guranteed base wage
Normal (7 and 7) Schedule: $39,000
Reserve (18 day) Schedule: $46,300

5th year First Officer-guaranteed base wage:
Normal (7 and 7) Schedule: $47,400
Reserve (18 day) Schedule: $56,200


1st year Captain-guaranteed base wage:
Normal (7 and 7) Schedule: $52,000
Reserve (18 day) Schedule: $62,300

5th year Captain-guaranteed base wage:
Normal (7 and 7) Schedule: $90,000
Reserve (18 day) Schedule: $106,800

10th year Captain-guaranteed base wage:
Normal (7 and 7) Schedule: $106,000
Reserve (18 day) Schedule: $125,800

NJA provides full medical, dental and vision. Also, we have a 50% match on 15% of contributed pay for the 401k.

Training is on company time.

12 sick days per year.

90% of the pilots are guaranteed a 7 and 7 schedule. The rest will be on the higher paying reserve. I'm sure that there will be no problem getting the 7 and 7 because there will be many volunteers for the reserve schedule.

We get crew food paid for during working duty days...eg.. if you are flying, they feed you. If you sit at the fbo not doing anything, you pay. But that rarely happens. You get 2 weeks vacation (equals 6 weeks because of the 7 and 7). After 5 years, you get 3 weeks (equals 9 weeks).

We have a new, GREAT Union that secured a good TA and represents us wonderfully.

With this new TA, coming to NJA is the best choice.
I probably would not have said this 3 days ago...
RETRO PAY?????
 

Nightmare67

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Another thing to know about our pay scales...

The day you start indoc, your in 1st year pay. At the end of your first year, your in 2d and so on. You will begin 5th year pay 1 day after your 4th anniversary.

Some think you have to be here for 5 years to get 5th year pay. You only need to be here 4 yrs and 1 day.

Maybe a "piercing glimpse into the obvious" for some, I know many folks that did not understand that little tid-bit.
 

Heavy Set

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flyfish said:
I would strongly recommend coming here to Netjets, I have always enjoyed the work..and with our new contract, life just got a whole lot better!
Again, I would caution people about being too enthusiastic. It is good to be optimistic, but the situation is still a bit fluid. I hope it happens for you guys because YOU REALLY DESERVE IT AFTER ALL OF THIS LAME STALLING, ETC... NJA's reputation as both an employer and a service provider has been tarnished considerably with pilots leaving and many owners not renewing. Let's hope it comes to fruition ASAP!!!!! Because if not, you can imagine that the reaction won't be pretty...
 

hydrarkt

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Retro $ is $10,000 for each year that a pilot has been here since the old CBA expired, 4 years.

for those here for 4 years, $40,000... that's the max. it will be paid in 2 installments. One this year, one next.
 

Humphreybogart

Here's Lookin At You Kid
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Sandypan, Go to NetJets because that is the only option you will have once the interviewers at CS figure out who you are during the interview, if you even make it that far. If you think you need the union for protection, then we don't want you here at CS. I you do your job, why do you even need a union? Please go to NetJets.
 

Heavy Set

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Humphreybogart said:
Sandypan, Go to NetJets because that is the only option you will have once the interviewers at CS figure out who you are during the interview, if you even make it that far. If you think you need the union for protection, then we don't want you here at CS. I you do your job, why do you even need a union? Please go to NetJets.
Gee, you sound like a fun guy to fly with... Sandy's being responsible and seeking opinions from various sources - I would do the same if I were interviewing. Why shouldn't he seek out other opinions as he considers both opportunities?
 

hydrarkt

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Humphreybogart said:
If you think you need the union for protection, then we don't want you here at CS. I you do your job, why do you even need a union? Please go to NetJets.
So what will you do if your company starts changing the way they do business and starts treating you like crap and/or lowers your pay? What happens when some idiotic manager demands that you fly an unsafe airplane or into unsafe conditions and you refuse, getting you fired??? Who will watch out for you?

Don't think that it can happen? You should talk to some NJA pilots? or maybe Flight Options pilots..
 

hydrarkt

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Sandy, We'll take you at NetJets. If you go to CS, you might have to fly with HumphreyBogart.... that might not be fun.
 

Humphreybogart

Here's Lookin At You Kid
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hydrarkt said:
So what will you do if your company starts changing the way they do business and starts treating you like crap and/or lowers your pay? What happens when some idiotic manager demands that you fly an unsafe airplane or into unsafe conditions and you refuse, getting you fired??? Who will watch out for you?

Don't think that it can happen? You should talk to some NJA pilots? or maybe Flight Options pilots..
This won't happen at CS because our owner is an extremely successful business man who respects his employees. We will never be asked to fly an unsafe airplane just like neither will any of the other fracs. I am an awesome person to fly with. It just is that unions SUCK and if you do your job, you'll never need one to protect you. Unions only protect the lazy people out there that need to be afraid of not fulfilling their responsibilities. Plane and simple, UNIONS SUCK>
 

Hawkered

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Plain and simple..or plane and simple...for the simpletons that can't spell, unionism got us out of child labor, women working for half pay, unsafe work practices and unscrupulous favoritism in the workplace.

Maybe we can agree to disagree on this one. No system is perfect, not even with our lot. I think its time to mend some fences here and then move on!!
 
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