Crunching the Numbers

[DirkkDiggler]

Dirk...c'mon man...you know better. It's a lot more complex than all that. It isn't all that easy to just pick up and move to your new base just because of some airline deal that your company has little or no control over. Especially if it's clear across the country and you have to uproot your whole life to get involved in another situation that could easily change and uproot you again. Real estate commissions alone for ordinary homes in Boulder CO and Washington DC (courtesy UAL/AWAC) will eat up 30K plus moving expenses will trash your paycheck for a whole year. I know.....if you don't like it move on. That's the plan.

I empathise with your situation. I know it's difficult but I'd hate to deter someone new to the industry if they're willing to move to their future domicile. As someone who has both commuted and lived in domicile, I can attest that quality of life is infinately better when you don't have to commute. I don't know if you're a captain but perhaps we'll fly together before you move on. Good luck.

 

[WhiteCloud]

I empathise with your situation. I know it's difficult but I'd hate to deter someone new to the industry if they're willing to move to their future domicile.

I wouldn't want to deter someone either. Unfortunately, this is fast becoming a career only for young people (to do for a while) or single people with a suitcase. I think most of us here have had the rugs pulled out from under us the past few years in ways we, or the companies we work for, never could have anticipated. New people entering the profession need to know that is more the norm now rather than the exception. Respectfully, CA WhiteCloud

 

[nimtz]

Would you guys STOP counting you're per diem as anywhere in the ballpark of income. That has got to be one of the stupidest things regional pilots do. That money is to cover you're expenses on the road period. Yeah you can pocket a couple bucks a day by eating fast food, which explains why some many of us are fat @sses. Try overnighting in LGA, DCA, or ORD with that kind of mentality. The minute you start counting per diem as income management has won...

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Would you guys STOP counting you're per diem as anywhere in the ballpark of income. That has got to be one of the stupidest things regional pilots do. That money is to cover you're expenses on the road period. Yeah you can pocket a couple bucks a day by eating fast food, which explains why some many of us are fat @sses. Try overnighting in LGA, DCA, or ORD with that kind of mentality. The minute you start counting per diem as income management has won...

For those of us that are not fat @sses, we're able to take our food with us and the result is that our eating costs are the same on the road as when we're at home. That being true, per diem ads up to a decent portion of the monthly pay.

 

[nimtz]

That being true, per diem ads up to a decent portion of the monthly pay.

You definetly work for Mesa...

Pathetic...

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Guess again fukcstain.

 

[climbhappy]

reply to dirk:

dirk ,

18 days off is for extreme senior guys. show me some 16 day bidlines.
Generally,
most will agree i submit that the majority of schedules are 10 to 12 off, some with 13,14 maybe 15, but 16 to 18 .......i've never seen 'em.(in the 90's maybe)

yes, commuting is a choice....but everybody knows most domiciles are not desirable. commuting is a necessary evil.

traveling on days off to make lousy shcedules is something we deal with as well.

my parade isn't rainy, but i clearly see the writing and i'm building a small business. i'm over 40 and chasing fragile companies, changing domiciles, living on lousy pay, dealing with dependence on foreign oil., just doesn't add up.

it goes straight to sticky's point and question.

it doesn't mean i don't love airplanes and flying. I do.

 

[nimtz]

Guess again fukcstain.

Guess it doesn't matter. Anyone that considers their per diem to be used towards nice chunk of take home pay is a fukcstain and pathetic...

 

[DirkkDiggler]

reply to dirk:

dirk ,

18 days off is for extreme senior guys. show me some 16 day bidlines.
Generally,
most will agree i submit that the majority of schedules are 10 to 12 off, some with 13,14 maybe 15, but 16 to 18 .......i've never seen 'em.(in the 90's maybe)

yes, commuting is a choice....but everybody knows most domiciles are not desirable. commuting is a necessary evil.

traveling on days off to make lousy shcedules is something we deal with as well.

my parade isn't rainy, but i clearly see the writing and i'm building a small business. i'm over 40 and chasing fragile companies, changing domiciles, living on lousy pay, dealing with dependence on foreign oil., just doesn't add up.

it goes straight to sticky's point and question.

it doesn't mean i don't love airplanes and flying. I do.

At my company, about 50% of the lines have at least 16 days off so I know it's not unheard of. I guess it comes down to what company you work for and the importance of choosing a company that will afford you the lifestyle you desire. I think a lot of folks take the first regional job they qualify for without building their hours to be more competitive at the companies that hire higher time pilots. These higher time airlines tend to have better pay, workrules, etc. I commend you for starting your own company. I'm planning to do something similar myself, if for no other reason than to keep my brain exercised. I'll never quit flying because I enjoy it too much , but I don't find myself fullfilled at the end of the work week. Despite what a lot of pilots say to civilians to perpetuate the idea that being a pilot is REALLY special and difficult, those of us that do it everyday know that it can become very routine (at least we hope it stays that way!) Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Guess it doesn't matter. Anyone that considers their per diem to be used towards nice chunk of take home pay is a fukcstain and pathetic...

When you've gone back to school and taken some basic accounting classes, you can call me whatever you want. Until then, you sound like a no-talent @ss clown!

 

[Sticky]

You guys are a stitch!

Seems that the older pilots that have been flying commerically for a number of years know what I'm talking about. It just doesn't seem worth it anymore. I'm sure those who were hired in the late 90s are doing just fine now. How about the new hires tomorrow? Are they going to be where you are within the same amount of years with the company? Or will it take much longer now? On the other hand, the younger pilots just getting start flying in an airline don't really care about the pay or they think $30K is a fair salary. As long as they get to wear the cool uniform and fly jets, they're happy. Thats what really scares me.

 

[nimtz]

When you've gone back to school and taken some basic accounting classes, you can call me whatever you want. Until then, you sound like a no-talent @ss clown!

Hmm, basic accounting class. Well professor can you define per diem...

PER DIEM: N

An allowance for daily expenses.

Well in the intrest of liberal art thinking let's look at the word allowance:

Allowance: N

Something, such as money, given at regular intervals or for a specific purpose: eg: a travel allowance that covers hotel bills.

Now let's define compensation since your advanced intellect can follow me so far:

Compensation: N

Something, such as money, given or received as payment or reparation, as for a service or loss.

In other words you are not compensated by per diem, you are given an allowance for the fact you are sent to fly an airplane for x amount of hours. Check your contract and you will find per diem covered under the EXPENSES section, not the COMPENSATION section. With the way you lump the two together you might as well consider your hotel and van ride to/from the airport to be part of your take home pay. Creaming your shorts cause you can eat tuna for four days sells the pilot group short when it comes time to adjust compensation even if for the purpose of keeping up with inflation.

But hey like you said our job is routine anyways and we love to fly, so maybe we're compensated too much!?! BTW, mature reply on the no-talent @ss clown. Haven't heard that one since Beavis and Butthead.

Have a Happy Holloween...

 

[DirkkDiggler]

You're a bit out of the loop if the last time you heard that was on Beavis and Butthead. Any way you want to spin it, per diem is income. The fact that it is designed for a specific purpose related to our job simply means it can be tax exempt. There are only two things to do with money, as any accountant will tell you. You can be receiving it, in which case it's called a credit, or you can be spending it, in which case it's called a debit. In this case you're receiving it and, yes, it's considered income. What you then decide to do with it is up to you. Feel free to spend it on meals while you're on the road. I do sometimes, but if you do, you can't complain that it's not around to spend on your car payment at the end of the month. Once the company sends you money, it's entirely at your discretion what you do with it. I guess when you're at home you don't spend money on food, huh? Maybe your company should be paying you per diem when you're not at work so you don't have to spend your hourly wage on food?

 

[nimtz]

Fine, it's your world and your pay. I don't complain about not having per diem around to spend at home cause I use it as needed at work. Although in many of our cities I don't think 30 bucks a day properly justifies expenses that are incured. No-talent @ss clown, now that I think of it I believe it was Micheal Bolton (hey is he related to that singer guy), that uttered those words.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

I can't believe I told those fudge packers I liked Michael Bolton's music!