CRJ200 v1 cut advice

[acaTerry]

Kenny is right. I went from Jetstreams to CRJ and what a difference. The jetstream 32 took ALL the rudder and still didn't behave, the 41 took most of the rudder and then the CRJ...well, the best way to put it is curl your big toe. That was the key for me. Once I settled down and got rid of my "prop feet" it all came together beautifully and V1 cuts were a yawner.

 

[avbug]

If you're getting behind the airplane with automation, then kick off the autopilot and hand fly it. Your job is to stay in control, and keep that foremost in your mind.

 

[Basil]

Here's a way of thinking that helped me when going Missed Approach with a Single Engine...

Understand that the position of the thrust levers will mirror the position of the rudder pedals. For example, if you are flying a single-engine ILS with a failed left engine, the left thrust lever will be back, the right thrust lever and right rudder pedal wil be forward. As you make power adjustments, this relationship will continue. Pushing the right thrust lever forward will require pushing the right rudder pedal forward, and vice-versa.

Should you execute a Go-Around, it then becomes easy to realize that as you increase the right engine thrust, you will increase the pressure on the right rudder pedal.

Doing this slowly and simultaneously will help you lead the rudder application and avoid the ugly process of adding power, watching the aircraft yaw, then trying to stop the yaw with late rudder.

Hopefully this will help.

 

[McNugent]

don't crash

 

[n757st]

If you're getting behind the airplane with automation, then kick off the autopilot and hand fly it. Your job is to stay in control, and keep that foremost in your mind.

That is the WORST thing to do in the CRJ sim. It flies like dirt. V1 cut is really, really, simple in the RJ as long as you do two things. After the cut keep it on the runway for 3+ seconds after the cut occurs. No where does your book say rotation has to be at Vr, it has to be AFTER vr, keep it on the runway to establish the rudder pressure needed to keep it straight, then SLOWLY rotate the aircraft. Run your v1 cut procedures and turn on the auto pilot ASAP. Then do NOT trim out the rudder, just keep some pressure on there. If you trim it out, every time you make a power adjustment you will have to make a trip adjustment, so don't trim it and rather use that time to worry about the automation. If you takeoff straight and stabilized the v1 cut in the RJ is easy and painless.

 

[avbug]

That is the WORST thing to do in the CRJ sim. It flies like dirt. V1 cut is really, really, simple in the RJ as long as you do two things. After the cut keep it on the runway for 3+ seconds after the cut occurs. No where does your book say rotation has to be at Vr, it has to be AFTER vr, keep it on the runway to establish the rudder pressure needed to keep it straight, then SLOWLY rotate the aircraft. Run your v1 cut procedures and turn on the auto pilot ASAP. Then do NOT trim out the rudder, just keep some pressure on there. If you trim it out, every time you make a power adjustment you will have to make a trip adjustment, so don't trim it and rather use that time to worry about the automation. If you takeoff straight and stabilized the v1 cut in the RJ is easy and painless.

What on earth are you talking about? You responded to a quote regarding the use of automation by going on about the obvious. I stated that during a missed approach, when one is having trouble flying the airplane, get rid of the automation and hand fly it. You responded by saying that's exactly the wrong thing to do, and then went off on a completely different tangent. Drinking today?

Two issues have been raised here. One involves a V1 cut on the runway, and the other involves executing a missed approach with the autopilot.

In the case of a missed approach with the autopilot, if one is having troubles, then there's only one requirement; fly the airplane. Period. If automation is kicking your butt, get rid of it and handfly. Period. Yes, that's the right thing to do.

So far as a V1 cut...obviously one doesn't rotate prior to Vr. One does NOT need to engage the autopilot as soon as possible; if you can fly the profile without it, fine, but don't use it as a crutch. You're a pilot, not a button pusher. Exercise some competence, and fly the airplane. If you can't do that without automation, you have absolutely NO business in the cockpit. Period.

 

[n757st]

What on earth are you talking about? You responded to a quote regarding the use of automation by going on about the obvious. I stated that during a missed approach, when one is having trouble flying the airplane, get rid of the automation and hand fly it. You responded by saying that's exactly the wrong thing to do, and then went off on a completely different tangent. Drinking today?

Two issues have been raised here. One involves a V1 cut on the runway, and the other involves executing a missed approach with the autopilot.

In the case of a missed approach with the autopilot, if one is having troubles, then there's only one requirement; fly the airplane. Period. If automation is kicking your butt, get rid of it and handfly. Period. Yes, that's the right thing to do.

So far as a V1 cut...obviously one doesn't rotate prior to Vr. One does NOT need to engage the autopilot as soon as possible; if you can fly the profile without it, fine, but don't use it as a crutch. You're a pilot, not a button pusher. Exercise some competence, and fly the airplane. If you can't do that without automation, you have absolutely NO business in the cockpit. Period.

The entire quote was not meant for you there sport. I was just imputing my opinion AFTER I responded to you. During a missed approach though I would personally not turn off the automation... the sim flies like crap and you are only hurting yourself by not using it. Not using the autopilot as much as possible is a big reason a lot of people fail at my airline, use it as soon as possible. I don't know if you have flown a CRJ-200 sim, but from my experience hand flying the thing when you don't have to is NOT what you want to be doing.

 

[avbug]

Not using the autopilot as much as possible is a big reason a lot of people fail at my airline, use it as soon as possible.

Perhaps they need to hire people who can fly airplanes, instead of relying on letting the airplane fly them.

I don't know if you have flown a CRJ-200 sim,

I have. Not impressed.

but from my experience hand flying the thing when you don't have to is NOT what you want to be doing.

It's not a matter of having to. It's a matter of being able to. The original poster stated that he was having difficulty. He went so far as to describe being unable to keep the airplane on the runway, and having difficulties flying a missed approach with the autopilot.

If one is having difficulties with the automation, get rid of the automation. Go back to the skills you had BETTER have in the first place, and do your job as a pilot. Retain control and make the airplane do what you want it to do.

 

[brian041102]

Correct me if im wrong but balance field relies on you rotating at vr in order to meet obstacle clearance. This is what i was told when I remained on the runway after vr for a few extra seconds.

 

[MJ42]

Correct me if im wrong but balance field relies on you rotating at vr in order to meet obstacle clearance. This is what i was told when I remained on the runway after vr for a few extra seconds.

Sort of, but n757st is wrong...bad advice. Initiate rotation at V1 to achieve V2 at the screen height(35ft dry runway-screen ht less for wet rwy). Otherwise your performance calculations are not valid. Now to the thread question(hope this portrays accurate when I submit the post):

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If my drawing worked...draw an imaginary line from sky pointer to airplane to heading indicator(presuming your missed does not have an initial turn). Keep everything in line. Keep pitch constant to maintain V2-hold pitch there!!!

Practice this technique then if you need to initiate a turn on a SE missed you will be able to put it all together. Good luck.