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CRJ training at ACA
- Thread starter pilotboy
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CRJ_Driver
The Man
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 224
Great
Thats great knowing that the program is good and getting better. But what you tell me is contrary to what i've been told all along when i was there for training. Unfortunately , I was one of the 2% that didn't make it. Yeah..... Dont cry for me .... And nasty replies are welcomed . God knows i've gotten my fair share of those in here saying how Sh*ty i am. lol Goodluck to all you pilots out there.
Thats great knowing that the program is good and getting better. But what you tell me is contrary to what i've been told all along when i was there for training. Unfortunately , I was one of the 2% that didn't make it. Yeah..... Dont cry for me .... And nasty replies are welcomed . God knows i've gotten my fair share of those in here saying how Sh*ty i am. lol Goodluck to all you pilots out there.
VelcroJetDriver
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Posts
- 31
CRJ_Driver
The Man
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 224
VelcroJetDriver
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Posts
- 31
VelcroJetDriver
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Posts
- 31
Haven't been in the guppy-killer for over a year now so I am out of touch with the training. However I believe they took a hint from the Dornier Department and put a lot of the memory items on a QRC.
It's hard to tell exactly what the bust-rate is these days. About a year ago ALPA started taking exit poles but the volunteers working on this were politely told to stop -- by ALPA! There is a vast disparity between what the company claims is the failure rate and what you hear from people who have gone through the program.
Hope the propaganda is true, I really miss flying that plane. A much nicer ride than the Dornier (except on climb out, of course.)
It's hard to tell exactly what the bust-rate is these days. About a year ago ALPA started taking exit poles but the volunteers working on this were politely told to stop -- by ALPA! There is a vast disparity between what the company claims is the failure rate and what you hear from people who have gone through the program.
Hope the propaganda is true, I really miss flying that plane. A much nicer ride than the Dornier (except on climb out, of course.)
VelcroJetDriver
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Posts
- 31
I personally know of five guys who all busted out of CRJ training with ACA in the past six months and I know three who quit before they were about to bust out. Their complaints were poor training scheduling and extremely harsh instructors and check airmen. They described the fact that the check airmen were giving what seemed to be type rides and orals to those who were only there to get an initial. I won't touch that company with a ten foot pole, I want to keep my no-pink policy in check.
Cappy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2001
- Posts
- 144
ACA Training Stats
Training at ACA, specifically the CRJ, has improved dramatically in the last six months. I do not work as a flight instructor so I don't know the details as to how. I do give IOE to new FO's and Ca's and I always ask for details and the overall "feel" of the program.
Lately it seems everyone had a good to excellent experience during the whole process. I think they have added some FTD's and one or two SIM sessionsas well. They apparently have a good (read better) handle on scheduling.
The memory items were cut from 26 to 3 by approving a QRC. A QRC is basically a written checklist for whatever malfunction you are dealing with. So, let's say you have an engine fire it goes like this - Pilot Flying calls for "Engine Fire QRC", the Non-Flying Pilot picks it up and reads it...verbatum and does it. Easy as pie.
Every airline does things differently, that is why the difference in memory items between companies. It really depends on what the company wants and the FAA will approve.
I believe that the ACA ALPA publication due out soon will have some hiring stats from the ACA ALPA FO Rep. That's where I got the hiring numbers from.If ACA plans to hire at least 350 this year, they will need to average about 42 a month until December.
My $.02
Later.
Mike
Training at ACA, specifically the CRJ, has improved dramatically in the last six months. I do not work as a flight instructor so I don't know the details as to how. I do give IOE to new FO's and Ca's and I always ask for details and the overall "feel" of the program.
Lately it seems everyone had a good to excellent experience during the whole process. I think they have added some FTD's and one or two SIM sessionsas well. They apparently have a good (read better) handle on scheduling.
The memory items were cut from 26 to 3 by approving a QRC. A QRC is basically a written checklist for whatever malfunction you are dealing with. So, let's say you have an engine fire it goes like this - Pilot Flying calls for "Engine Fire QRC", the Non-Flying Pilot picks it up and reads it...verbatum and does it. Easy as pie.
Every airline does things differently, that is why the difference in memory items between companies. It really depends on what the company wants and the FAA will approve.
I believe that the ACA ALPA publication due out soon will have some hiring stats from the ACA ALPA FO Rep. That's where I got the hiring numbers from.If ACA plans to hire at least 350 this year, they will need to average about 42 a month until December.
My $.02
Later.
Mike
atpcliff
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 4,260
Mem Items-AF/Airline Difference
Hi!
I noticed a dramatic difference between the AF and airlines as to what were Memory Items, and their basic philosophies.
At TSA, the J41 had about 17? mem items, the ATRs 20+ and I think the ERJ was around the mid 20s.
That shocked me, and I was very worried, until I found out how the airlines handle their "Memory" items.
I flew the KC-135R (tanker-basically the same airframe as a Boeing 707). It's max TOW was about 340,000. We had 4 engines, 3 generators, and a whole bunch of old (read very complicated) systems. When you consider this, it is amazing that we had 5, that's right, five, memory (AF calls them Bold Face) checklists, and they also had very few steps on them, usually 3.
When I heard the J41 had 17? I couldn't believe it.
Here's how it's different.
In the AF, the memory items ARE memory items. You have to know them verbally and in written form, backwords and forwards.
If it says: "Flaps - 45 degrees." and you write
"Flaps-45 degrees." (you left out the spaces), you FAIL the Oral or the written test it is on.
If it says "Generators - OFF.", and you the examiner hears you say, "GeneraTOR - OFF." (you changed it from plural to singular verbally) you FAIL.
The AF only took what they believed to be life threatening situations, where you had to know instantly and exactly what to do, and made those the memory items (some of the Bold Face items are just PART of a longer checklist, and you use the checklist for the rest of the items).
In the airlines (I assume it's like TSA), you had to be able to perform the actions in the sim, and explain it to the examiner, not have to know each space and dash and Capitalized word. We could change the wording, for example, it the item was to be turned off, we could say (or write) "Item - Shut-off" or "Item- OFF", as long as the instructor knew that we knew what we were doing. It didn't have to be EXACT as it did in the AF.
We had about 4-5 memory items in the J41, that were very similar, but some of the wording was very different, even though the actions were the same. We were allowed to re-word these items ourselves, and learn/write/say them in a standardized format, that was slightly different that what TSA had (this would never be allowed in the AF).
Also, we were only required to write these memory items once, and it was a test that our systems instructor made up on his own-it wasn't part of the TSA training. In the AF, we had about 30 million written tests of these items. In the oral, I don't think (at TSA) I was even asked all of the memory items, just a sampling.
Once I learned how TSA wanted us to learn and how they tested their memory items, it was pretty easy.
In general, as far as the training went, the AF training was MUCH harder and MUCH more precise and demanding, but we had a much longer time to train up to that standard. They were quite a bit different. In the AF, 90% of my KC-135R training was in the aircraft, and at TSA I would've had probably 3 or 4 patterns in the plane total.
Cliff
GB,WI
Hi!
I noticed a dramatic difference between the AF and airlines as to what were Memory Items, and their basic philosophies.
At TSA, the J41 had about 17? mem items, the ATRs 20+ and I think the ERJ was around the mid 20s.
That shocked me, and I was very worried, until I found out how the airlines handle their "Memory" items.
I flew the KC-135R (tanker-basically the same airframe as a Boeing 707). It's max TOW was about 340,000. We had 4 engines, 3 generators, and a whole bunch of old (read very complicated) systems. When you consider this, it is amazing that we had 5, that's right, five, memory (AF calls them Bold Face) checklists, and they also had very few steps on them, usually 3.
When I heard the J41 had 17? I couldn't believe it.
Here's how it's different.
In the AF, the memory items ARE memory items. You have to know them verbally and in written form, backwords and forwards.
If it says: "Flaps - 45 degrees." and you write
"Flaps-45 degrees." (you left out the spaces), you FAIL the Oral or the written test it is on.
If it says "Generators - OFF.", and you the examiner hears you say, "GeneraTOR - OFF." (you changed it from plural to singular verbally) you FAIL.
The AF only took what they believed to be life threatening situations, where you had to know instantly and exactly what to do, and made those the memory items (some of the Bold Face items are just PART of a longer checklist, and you use the checklist for the rest of the items).
In the airlines (I assume it's like TSA), you had to be able to perform the actions in the sim, and explain it to the examiner, not have to know each space and dash and Capitalized word. We could change the wording, for example, it the item was to be turned off, we could say (or write) "Item - Shut-off" or "Item- OFF", as long as the instructor knew that we knew what we were doing. It didn't have to be EXACT as it did in the AF.
We had about 4-5 memory items in the J41, that were very similar, but some of the wording was very different, even though the actions were the same. We were allowed to re-word these items ourselves, and learn/write/say them in a standardized format, that was slightly different that what TSA had (this would never be allowed in the AF).
Also, we were only required to write these memory items once, and it was a test that our systems instructor made up on his own-it wasn't part of the TSA training. In the AF, we had about 30 million written tests of these items. In the oral, I don't think (at TSA) I was even asked all of the memory items, just a sampling.
Once I learned how TSA wanted us to learn and how they tested their memory items, it was pretty easy.
In general, as far as the training went, the AF training was MUCH harder and MUCH more precise and demanding, but we had a much longer time to train up to that standard. They were quite a bit different. In the AF, 90% of my KC-135R training was in the aircraft, and at TSA I would've had probably 3 or 4 patterns in the plane total.
Cliff
GB,WI
training failure
Hey im upset... i started this forum and non of you have lashed out against me like last time. Last time i posted this topic everyone was telling me what a mistake i had made and how bad i was.... were are your backbones guys..? Come on certainly you can tell me how bad i suck by not passing the CRJ program at ACA. Since its so easy...! lol ok take care and goodluck
chip on my shoulder ,
pilotboy
Hey im upset... i started this forum and non of you have lashed out against me like last time. Last time i posted this topic everyone was telling me what a mistake i had made and how bad i was.... were are your backbones guys..? Come on certainly you can tell me how bad i suck by not passing the CRJ program at ACA. Since its so easy...! lol ok take care and goodluck
chip on my shoulder ,
pilotboy
Patriot328
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
- Posts
- 763
pilotboy,
If it makes you feel better I'm tickled to death you aren't slinging my gear with an attitude like that. Let it go.
From what I've heard, the RJ dept here is improving and it's not the same torture test you had to endure. I'm not going to apologize for my company unless I know the exact circumstances of your failure. I know a few people that have busted, and they were all legit.
Another velcodriver,
Patriot
If it makes you feel better I'm tickled to death you aren't slinging my gear with an attitude like that. Let it go.
From what I've heard, the RJ dept here is improving and it's not the same torture test you had to endure. I'm not going to apologize for my company unless I know the exact circumstances of your failure. I know a few people that have busted, and they were all legit.
Another velcodriver,
Patriot
I have seen many posts here about what things were like in the past; however, I have not seen any posts from folks who are in the training program right now. Hopefully I will be able to clear things up a bit. I am a CRJ new hire at ACA and I can tell you that the training to this point has been wonderfull. When I complete the Sim portion which I will begin next week, I will have been in training for 63 days. As Cappy has already stated memory items have been reduced to 7 due to the QRC. All of the instructors that I have come into contact with so far have been very good. They have all shown a genuine concern to get us through the program. I cannot speak as to how the training was in the past, but to this point it has been very very proffesionally handled. I will continue to post and let everyone know how things go through the sim.
Mark.
Mark.
bad attitude
Patriot.... finally someone who responded to my request !!! lol
Hey buddy , i done already let it go.. hehehe ANYWAYS>>>> what should i be bitter about. It's only my career thats probrably ruined.... but actually , thats my fault right? of course!! . Im glad you say its getting better. Thats great and im happy for all those after me. Goodluck
Patriot.... finally someone who responded to my request !!! lol
Hey buddy , i done already let it go.. hehehe ANYWAYS>>>> what should i be bitter about. It's only my career thats probrably ruined.... but actually , thats my fault right? of course!! . Im glad you say its getting better. Thats great and im happy for all those after me. Goodluck
VelcroJetDriver
Active member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Posts
- 31
Relax, Pilotboy.
Pink-slips aren't the career-ending death blows some people make them out to be. We've had plenty (and I mean) plenty of CRJ captains pink at ACA who've gone on to Southwest, United ...
It's how you explain it at an interview that'll kill your chances. If you chalk it up to a bad day in the sim it'll probably be glossed over. If you blame someone else, they'll hold it against you.
Very few make it through a career without one.
Pink-slips aren't the career-ending death blows some people make them out to be. We've had plenty (and I mean) plenty of CRJ captains pink at ACA who've gone on to Southwest, United ...
It's how you explain it at an interview that'll kill your chances. If you chalk it up to a bad day in the sim it'll probably be glossed over. If you blame someone else, they'll hold it against you.
Very few make it through a career without one.
skydiverdriver
Senior Member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 869
Just when you think you have it bad, and start to complain, someone tells you what it's like at THEIR company. I don't like everything at Comair, but the training was top notch. I actually applied at ACA, as it was my first choice. They didn't even call me. Oh well, I guess things happen for a reason. I'm glad I'm at Comair.
Go figure skydiverdriver, Comair was my absolute first choice not knowing very much about ACA at the time. No call from Comair, next day call from ACA. Couldn't be happier. Definately better off here.
Hey pilotboy, how's the pattern work going. Ohhh ouch. Sorry it didn't workout but stop looking for people to hop on your ACA bash bus.
Hey pilotboy, how's the pattern work going. Ohhh ouch. Sorry it didn't workout but stop looking for people to hop on your ACA bash bus.
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