Crash in MN

[Timebuilder]

4:37PM EST, CNN:

Sen. John Mc Cain, while remembering Paul Wellstone and recalling the crashes over the past several years that involved politicians, idly suggested that "...maybe we need to take a look at the kind of aircraft used during campaigns...".


4:54 PM EST:

Actor Richard Harris has died in a London hospital.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

AWWW...good to hear a bright statement from that A$$hole Mc Cain......Mr anti-aviation....

At first it was reported that good old Teddy Kennedy was also onboard......

 

[surplus1]

Was this a single pilot operation or a two pilot operation?

 

[chperplt]

Two pilot

 

[ksu_aviator]

Just as another thoery, maybe it was a bird strike...I'm pretty sure its about time for the ducks and geese to come through. A flock of ducks or geese could have downed the aircraft if they managed to get into bot powerplants. But, its just a guess, lets wait to see how the NTSB rules.

And the approach plates can be found here.

 

[MetroSheriff]

This thread is worse than Fox News and CNN put together.

 

[cvsfly]

Agreed. Enough speculation here to make the CNN newsroom very happy.

 

[surplus1]

Adding fuel

Don't want to speculate and won't, but since you're already doing it, here are some more questions (I have not seen the approach plates)

1) The weather: Is there a tower or some other facility on the airport that reported the weather or is in one of those automated things? In other words, is the official weather and the actual weather likely to be close or the same.

2) Apparently this was a second approach. Was weather the cause of the first "miss"? If not, what was?

3) If the first approach was missed due to wx, what change in the weather would cause the crew to attempt a second approach? How did they know the wx had changed? (see # 1)

4) Was there a mechanical failure of the aircraft or a powerplant? Was there any avionics malfunction?

5) What is the experience level of the crew? What was their training?

6) Was the crew properly rested?

7) Re the icing theories: Was the anti-ice and de-ice equipment functional? Was it being used? When was it last tested?

8) Were there other aircraft in the area that might report on actual flight/icing conditions at the time?

9) Did the aircraft appear to be "on course" at the time of impact?

10) Reference has been made to GPS approches. Was the aircraft equipped for GPS? Was the crew trained in GPS?

11) Someone said there were two pilots. Was the pilot in the right seat a trained professional or a (legal) seat warmer?

12) Did the aircraft have an autopilot? If so, was it being used?

13) Does the aircraft have an altitude alert system? Was it properly set?

I could go on and on but that's more than enough for starters. That's why speculation as to probable cause seldom offers any accuracy. I know it takes patience but we must wait for the NTSB to do its job.

Condolences to the families of the passengers and crew.

 

[skeezer]

Since I am a regional airline pilot I am an aviation expert so here goes my theory:

While approaching the airport the King air collided with an Alien invasion craft that was using the bad weather to hide its approach to small town MN.

Remeber that Alien aircraft are not required by the FAA to have TCAS so they could not see the King Air flying in IMC. The collision probably damaged the Alien craft's deadly laser beam gun so they aborted the mission and headed back home.

Also, since Alien aircraft are made from more exotic and much stronger metals than aluminum, they were able to fly away from the mid-air. I heard that a witness saw the collision and described the Alien craft as a "white van."


Seriously though peeps, wait for the NTSB report and pray for the victims and their families and friends.

Skeezer

 

[Slug]

Another theory

First, my prayers to all involved.

I'm sure the media will come out with the Republican/Right Wing conspiracy. I was reading about the crash online today and the second sentence of the article (sorry I don't remember which publication) started talking about getting someone else into the race; and whether Gov. Jesse would appoint someone or the Democratic Party could. Jeez, politics this time of the year drives me batty.

Slug

 

[TwinTails]

They were less than 1/2 mile from the approach end of the runway, a little bit off course to the left.There wasn't much airplane left by the time any pictures were taken, really just a burning hole and a little section of the tail. It's a marshy pine forest area more than a mile to the nearest road. The crash sight looked fairly compact like a steep impact angle.

 

[Chunk]

Other data...

I heard 2 miles from the threshold of RWY 27...

Here's some other details, at least according to Fox News..

1. N41BE (King Air 100)
2. Crash occurred @ 1020 local
3. Aircraft in bad weather are controlled to the ground by ATC and this airport didn't have a tower....that may have been a factor.

Chunk

 

[Beavis]

Skeezer....

LOL!!! I have never laughed at a post before. Kudos to the "parody" on the media's sensationalism on any aviation topic!! Pilot error.....right?!?!?!?

Seriously, prayers and wishes to the families of our colleagues who are lost, doing the job we all do!!!

 

[Veronaut]

Reported by Gulfstream 200-

"At first it was reported that good old Teddy Kennedy was also onboard......"

I heard that Sen. Ted Kennedy was not only on board the aircraft at the time of the crash, but was the sole survivor & managed to escape the wreckage in order to get help, but didn't report the accident to authorities until many hours later...

'naut

 

[Chunk]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

That stings! I wonder how much longer ole' Teddy can escape the Kennedy curse. He must have lived this long through healthy living...

Chunk

 

[ShawnC]

Anyone else get the impression that this crash is the case of get-there-itis that the FAA is so careful to point out is one of the death traps of aviation.

 

[350DRIVER]

First, my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends. I would assume that the 200 did have one however not completely sure. The 350 as well as the C90B we operate BOTH have them not to mention others in the fleet that I have also flown. I don't think the older models came with them. The A90, E90, B100 & B300 in our fleet do not have them onboard.

I would hate to speculate to the cause of this crash however ICING can get one in trouble rather quickly not to mention other problems that it sounds like they had. The King Air fleet does well in icing conditions so this should be interesting when ALL facts come out.


another sad day in aviation.

3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

A 100 as reported by ABC News-
thought the "witness" accounts were somewhat interesting.
____________________________________________________
The pilots called the Eveleth-Virginia airport to get clearance for landing when they were about seven miles out and they reported no problems, said Gary Ulman, who was on duty at the airport at the time.

When the plane didn't land, Ulman said, he took off in a plane to search for it. He soon saw smoke.

"The wreckage was scattered and fully engulfed in flames," Ulman said. "Just looking at it, it would take a miracle to survive it."

Another pilot, Don Sipola, said visibility in the area at the time was 2 1/2 miles, well above the one-mile minimum for a standard instrument landing. He said the crash site was south of the normal approach path, so the plane must have deviated "for unknown and unexplained reasons
____________________________________________________


3 5 0

 

[s.o.sJTB]

Fox News is reporting that the fueler at the departure airport had a great grandfather of "Mid-eastern" descent.....

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

My capt. on today's (& yesterday's) trips was from MSP, and actually flew the A/C that crashed in one of his previous jobs. We dropped our cargo in MSP and were talking about it with the FBO employees. It is sad.

My wife says seeing stuff like this makes her not want all of our family to fly on a plane together. The media doesn't make our job any easier, that's for sure.

As soon as I heard about it, I automatically thought "non-precision approach-CFIT". I have been reading how the FAA wants to make all approaches with a glideslope. They want to used modern avionics to get rid of non-precision step-down procedures.

I heard an NTSB person on TV stating that the plane did have a CVR and it would be sent to DC for analysis.

Cliff
GRB