Crappy FBO's

[SCT]

AirServices KCLE has to be right up there w/ the worst. Bought 1800 gallons......asked for a local paper from the line "dude" (the women behind the desk was to busy talking to her g-friend on the phone) and he says no problem. He walks out to the front and points to a newspaper box. I told him it was OK and we'll make do w/ what we had on board.

 

[BCpilot81]

Gulf Aviation In Khrl (harlingen Texas).

 

[sleepy]

"And they think they make it up by putting out a bowl of Jelly Bellys that you have to unwrap one at a time!"

Thank you, I left that one out of my post, they suck the most of all!!!!!! And add Atlantic in PIT to the list with their $700 ramp fee shake-down, for nothing.

 

[murfdawg998]

Any FBO that has the word Signature over the door.

Agreed...except for EWR for some reason seems to be OK

 

[murfdawg998]

signature-EWR, 6.10 a gallon for JetA, no volume discounts, no contract fuel and the girl behind the counter is the biggest piece of new jersey turnpike trash I've ever seen.
alot of mercury dealers are starting to turn into slop holes as well.

not familiar with the CSR you speak of...I just meant EWR seemed to be better than some others in terms of their quickness in getting you what you need to the aircraft.

Murf

 

[murfdawg998]

jet aviation teb
jet aviation bed


Jet TEB...has improved much over the past couple of years. They still need to coordinate better during shift changes.

Jet BED...love them!! I will go there anytime!!

 

[murfdawg998]

We just got back from CLT. The only FBO on the field is Wilson Aviation. These airport monopolies are so predictable... When we checked in the night before, I told them that I wanted the aircraft on the line at 1800 with a fuel truck standing by. When we got to the airport at 1745, the aircraft was buried, half a mile across the ramp. After 3 or 4 increasingly urgent prompts, it was finally on the line at 1825. This with 5 ramp guys sitting on their asses in front of us.


this reminds me of Landmark @ IAD when you're there for several hours but they immediately tow you out to the runup block at the approach end of 19R (a billion miles away) and never put you on line at the requested time.

 

[smellthejeta]

this reminds me of Landmark @ IAD when you're there for several hours but they immediately tow you out to the runup block at the approach end of 19R (a billion miles away) and never put you on line at the requested time.

murfdawg,

I used to work at Landmark IAD back in the Piedmont Hawthorne days. Way way way back in the day (like prior to 9/11/01) Signature DCA handled a vast majority of the traffic headed to Capitol Hill.

Then, overnight, DCA closed to GA traffic, but we all know that. However, Landmark's ramp didn't increase in size overnight, and getting the 19R runup block from the airport authority was the only thing we could do. We also utilize the "Cargo 6" area by FedEX for larger aircraft, and occasionally, we used a ramp next to the "G" airline gates -- by runway 30. So, your hike could be worse.

Landmark handles arrivals and departures all day, rather continuously. Their problem is that they have only about fifteen spots (the first three rows) that are rather useful for parking arriving aircraft. You can't park an arriving aircraft on the runup block when it is full, nor can you park it in the last row where we tail airplanes up to the ditch.

The place is a nuthouse at 1700. You've got guys coming in on quick turns, and you've got everybody and their brother who was there for the day waiting to pick the boss up and get out of there. Those "prime" parking spots can't be help up for more than about an hour each. When you guys say "get me on the line at four" you're sitting there at five, six, and sometimes still seven. If we let everybody do that, we'd have no place for an arriving aircraft on a quick turn.

I know the runup block arrangement sucks. We're paying guys to tow airplanes all day long, and we're paying guys to drive the courtesy van. If we could cut down on our labor costs, I'm sure management would do it in a heartbeat. You're stuck out there not because the ramp guys are lazy (FWIW, they have a very hands-on manager who works outside in the afternoon) but because we have about 70 departable spots, and about 15 arrival slots. Any good departure spot is also an arrival spot.

I know you guys won't stop compalining about it, because it sucks. But, the truth is, it's a logistical necessity with the ramp space that they have.

 

[T-DOGGIN]

Aero Indusrty in RIC

Was there today and stopped in because Merc Fuel was the cheapest. BIG MISTAKE

Took the crew car (141,000 miles) totally shoot, holes in all the seats, windows didn't work and smelled of an ashtray. Worst part was 2 miles from the FBO overheated smoking and ended up on the side of the road. Called the boss to tell him we were moving to Million Air and meet us there (expecting a suck it up crybaby) and was told his Caddy had no AC talk about pissed off. Went back to the FBO and even the crew lounge TV contols basshed in no cable and once again smelled of an ashtray. The owner stopped us on the ramp and asked us not to leave and said he would give us a ride over to Richmond Jet (which he also owned) He tried to make it right by giving us his Cady all day but when you rub 2 full page adds in AcuQuick i would think you could spend a little more on the facility. NEVER AGAIN

 

[Hung Start]

SJF:

Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for us. We as pilots ( and I'm sure you are one) just need a reason to Biatch and moan. And very busy FBO's just provide a very easy target.
And you are right, I am guilty as most of telling you to get me ready at 4, and the boss arrives at 7.
No good excuse, but I would have planned my dinner based on 4, and now I'm hungry, and cranky.
Nawww, I'm cranky all the time, but I'm still hungry.
Do the best you can, I'll adapt.

Hung

 

[OPECJet]

Atlantic Jet Center, MLB. Worst I have dealt with. All seemed well on arrival with a friendly lady working the counter and a good rampy who was waiting with wands when we pulled in. Went down hill after some whore I assume to be one of the owners arrived. Asked for a crew car and got a dirty look, followed by "are you a customer?". Then it was what are you flying, are you fueling? Upon her getting "the jet, and yes" from me, I was given the keys to the most cherry Lexus? you'll ever see. Driver's side door wouldn't open or unlock, and the low fuel light was on. I have no problem with dropping a 10'er in the tank, but dam!

When it was time to leave, the lone rampy showed his true colors by not having the airplane fueled. It sat there on the ramp for 8 hrs and no gas. Not to mention the 425 degree setting the a/c was on.

Definately FIT Aviation next time.

Been to Dolphin many times as well. RC, the owner is more concerned with his ego rather than running an FBO. I hear he's got some competition down there now, so things might get better.

So what is the deal with the security at BOS? What could they possibly be looking for?

 

[Optimax200]

Nayak

Nayak FBO @ KSAT, what a chit hole.......

 

[CFIcare]

the good, bad and Signature

Good thread here.

I'd agree with the worst being:
Atlantic LAS
Signature BOS
the city run fire station/FBO joke at HYA
Signature MSP (stole our GPU to put on a Flexjet plane after we paid for it)
the "FBO/trailer" at DFW
Atlantic MDW (GPU issues every time)

As far as the good ones, I've always had good luck at Jet Aviation TEB, Wilson Air Center in CLT and MEM, Flower Aviation in PUB, and I've had some of the best treatment at the mom and pop FBOs in remote places. What they lack in glamorous facilities they make up for in customer service for both the pilots and passengers. They also tend to not charge ramp, service, overnight, or facility fees and they treat you so good I kinda wish they would charge something for their own sake.

 

[planegray]

SIGNATURE! SIGNATURE! SIGNATURE!

WINS MY VOTE!

 

[G100driver]

I've had some of the best treatment at the mom and pop FBOs in remote places. What they lack in glamorous facilities they make up for in customer service for both the pilots and passengers. They also tend to not charge ramp, service, overnight, or facility fees and they treat you so good I kinda wish they would charge something for their own sake.

I could not agree more. I try and tell these guys that I should at least pay a service fee. I need these friendly folks to be there the next time I go to a small town.

I know that they cannot make any money just having a $25 million dollar airplane sitting on their ramp for free!

Next time a mom and pop operator wants to charge you $100 (or whatever they charge) for ramp space, instead of giving them crap, say

"thank-you, I appreciate your being here to take care of us!"

Smile and hand the line service tech $10 because he ran up to your airplane, laid out the red carpet and helped your pax with their bags.

 

[pilotviolin]

Here is why LANDMARK IAD SUCKS. We were there overnight, and when the plane came back from BFE, it was missing a the engine cover. They never did find it or take responsiblity.
For being one of the most secure airports in the nation, you would think someone would notice a big red cover!

 

[FLYN2FAST4YOU]

Signatures
Atlantic Aviation -LAS
Livermore, CA

 

[smellthejeta]

Here is why LANDMARK IAD SUCKS. We were there overnight, and when the plane came back from BFE, it was missing a the engine cover. They never did find it or take responsiblity.
For being one of the most secure airports in the nation, you would think someone would notice a big red cover!

There's lots of places for an engine cover to blow around over there -- there's a big runway next to the runup block, there's a huge ditch next to the taxi way, and there's a bunch of trees and woods. When the wind-comes-a-knockin, you'd be amazed where thet stuff turns up. If the airport authority finds them and doesn't turn them in, we're none the wiser.

 

[smellthejeta]

SJF:

Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for us. We as pilots ( and I'm sure you are one) just need a reason to Biatch and moan. And very busy FBO's just provide a very easy target.
And you are right, I am guilty as most of telling you to get me ready at 4, and the boss arrives at 7.
No good excuse, but I would have planned my dinner based on 4, and now I'm hungry, and cranky.
Nawww, I'm cranky all the time, but I'm still hungry.
Do the best you can, I'll adapt.

Hung

Big FBO's tend to charge a ton in fees partly because they have to, and partly because they can. So many of our customers (more than half) were on some sort of contract or "preferred" fuel arrangement. Hint: The "sticker price" that is listed as "today's price" is more like the price of an airline ticket -- everybody pays something different. "Today's price" gets charged only to the guys buying a couple of hundered gallons. Anybody in a large aircraft has a fuel contract arrangement of some sort.

The fees that we paid for leases and taxes to the airport authority are huge. I can't remember how big they were, but they weren't cheap. Labor ain't cheap either, I think our full staff was around 30 guys total -- usually about 9 guys on any given day for the AM and PM shifts and three on the graveyard. Oh yea, want 24 hour line service that you don't have to worry about calling out ahead of time, without paying a specific fee for it? Be prepared to pay for it in the fuel price.

Some of those fees are definitely "because we can" fees. I worked part time at a reliever airport (HEF) and we had next to no traffic. Cheaper fuel, cheaper fees, and an owner that made a line guy stand at the door of any Gulfstream on the ramp. I always thought that if the service at the "biggie" sucked so bad, that the relievers would be eating them up. Nope. Why? The location of HEF sucks. The way I66 is configured (it has a varying number of lane changes for the 20 mile stretch between the city and the airport) traffic backups can get very very nasty. If your boss has to do that, even once, you'll hear about it. The road to IAD is a dedicated access road for about 15 miles. The traffic is very light on most portions of it. It's convenient, and in this business, time is money.

Landmark has its service issues, don't get me wrong. Some days are just too darned busy to do anything about. Then, there are also slipups -- something you find at any FBO. But, it's a place I'd take MY customers in a heartbeat -- the guys try hard (and get paid very little). For the amount of work they have to do, the wages are insulting.

At my current line job, I have a bit broader job description (I never worked the counter at Landmark, we had a 24 hr CSR). If you ever show up at 0200, I assume you want to get the heck out of here and in bed as fast as you can . You won't sit around forever waiting for a cab or a ride to the hotel, and I don't dick around servicing your plane. On a quick turn? Guess what, if all I do is watch your passengers get off the plane, I'll find some excuse not to charge you a ramp fee. Need a fuel truck? It's ready as soon as the pax are clear. This job pays me very well, and gives me a killer benefits package. My employer (and customers) take care of me, so I try to take care of them.

 

[Launchpad]

No mention of Jimsair in KSAN yet? Yikes, that place blows.