Lead Sled
Sitt'n on the throne...
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2004
- Posts
- 2,066
Thread Evolution
I love the way these threads evolve.
My thoughts on the first question...
Well, it depends upon what you mean by average. If you're talking about the average commercially flown light twin and flown by the average charter pilot, I doubt if there would be much of an issue. Most of those guys seem to be pretty sharp, fly enough to keep the rust from forming and they are subject to recurrent training and IFR checkrides every 6 months. Those are the guys that you wouldn't think would have a lot of problems. Then there's the average non-professionally flown twin flown by wealthy individuals, doctors, and the like. IF they have been dilligent in keeping current and have received proper and adequate recurrent training then they probably wouldn't have too much of a problem either. Unfortunately, there are those guys who have the money to afford their "trophy twin", but neither the time nor the interest to do the things necessary to be proficient in it. The problem with piston twins is that they all have two engines because they need two engines and when engines fail in the real world it's normally nothing like the carefully choreographed training exercises that most of us are familiar with.
When it comes to our fledgling naval aviator's self confidence...
I'm going to give you a pass for now - the job you're being trained for requires a certain level of "self confidence". Over my career I've had the opportunity to fly with dozens of current and ex-military pilots from all branches of the service. I've seen good military pilots and I've seen ones that didn't quite measure up - and in about the same proportion as the civilian pilots I've flown with. From what I have seen, it all boils down to this: There is generally no substitute for flight time and experience. I'll be the first to admit that flight time isn't everything (I've flown with some high-time bozos.), but you guys know what I'm saying. Experience doesn’t make you manipulate the controls “better”, it allows you to fly “smarter”.
Several years ago, I was an instructor at a 141 flight school that did a lot of "GI Bill" training for military and ex-military pilots. My job was to transition them into the civilian way of doing things and train them for the ME ATP checkride. As I remember, they were given up to 20 hours of flight time to make the transition. I probably worked with 50 different individuals with military experience that ran the whole gamut - fighter, bomber, and transport. The transport guys did the best. They were the ones whose experience most closely paralleled what one would encounter in "the real world" of civilian flying. In most cases, it was very easy to transition these people in the allotted time and they, as a group, did very well on the check ride that followed.
The fighter pilots were an entirely different story. The attributes that make a good fighter pilot do not necessarily make the transition into the civilian world. While most of the transport guys were ready well within the allotted time, almost all of the fighter types required the entire program time allotment and even then, there were a few who were pretty "rough". They were good fighter pilots – they could shoot missiles, guns, dogfight, etc. with the best of them. Unfortunately, these are skills rarely required in today's world of airline and corporate flying. The problem was they were good and they knew it and it was hard to tell them anything - they already knew it all.
Three or four years ago I had the opportunity to fly with a recently retired F-15 fighter pilot. The colonel and I flew an Astra SPX all over the country - a couple of hundred hours worth. On paper, his credentials were impressive - nearly 6,000 hours of jet fighter time and all that goes with it. In reality, his 6,000 hours of military time provided him with an equivalent of perhaps 2,000 hours of civilian experience. Basic things that we would take for granted with a civilian pilot with that amount of time just were not there. Skills like the use of weather radar, FMS operation, etc. and even basic instrument approaches had not been honed because they were of little practical use in the military environment. In this particular pilot's case, he had flown less than 5 actual ILS approaches to minimums during his entire career. (We did more that that the first month we flew together.) He was also not comfortable in serious IFR weather or operating at the various high density airports that we frequented. He was forced to play some serious "catch up ball" if you know what I mean. Again, as I said, there is generally no substitute for flight time and experience.
I remember reading an interview that Bob Hoover gave several years ago. Some one asked him why he never flew his Shrike Commander to the various airshows around the country. His answer was pretty insightful - he said that he could either be a good aerobatic pilot or a good instrument pilot, but he couldn't be both.
You'll have a leg up when your service flying is over, but don’t for a minute think that you’re going to be able to step right out of your military jet into the left seat of a civilian bizjet. It ain't going to happen. In fact, it's going to be pretty tough getting a pilot insured in a corporate jet until he has a minimum of 1500 to 2000 hours total time.
As far as NDB approaches go...
In the real world, they just aren't done that much. Granted, there are isolated airports where they frequently used, but the average working pilot could fly for years without running into one "in the wild". With the proliferation of GPS, there's really no excuse to even do one now except for the entertainment value. In the world of FMS equipped corporate jets you'll never have to do one per se - just about any non-precision approach can be flown with a glideslope.
'Sled
I love the way these threads evolve.
My thoughts on the first question...
Well, it depends upon what you mean by average. If you're talking about the average commercially flown light twin and flown by the average charter pilot, I doubt if there would be much of an issue. Most of those guys seem to be pretty sharp, fly enough to keep the rust from forming and they are subject to recurrent training and IFR checkrides every 6 months. Those are the guys that you wouldn't think would have a lot of problems. Then there's the average non-professionally flown twin flown by wealthy individuals, doctors, and the like. IF they have been dilligent in keeping current and have received proper and adequate recurrent training then they probably wouldn't have too much of a problem either. Unfortunately, there are those guys who have the money to afford their "trophy twin", but neither the time nor the interest to do the things necessary to be proficient in it. The problem with piston twins is that they all have two engines because they need two engines and when engines fail in the real world it's normally nothing like the carefully choreographed training exercises that most of us are familiar with.
When it comes to our fledgling naval aviator's self confidence...
I'm going to give you a pass for now - the job you're being trained for requires a certain level of "self confidence". Over my career I've had the opportunity to fly with dozens of current and ex-military pilots from all branches of the service. I've seen good military pilots and I've seen ones that didn't quite measure up - and in about the same proportion as the civilian pilots I've flown with. From what I have seen, it all boils down to this: There is generally no substitute for flight time and experience. I'll be the first to admit that flight time isn't everything (I've flown with some high-time bozos.), but you guys know what I'm saying. Experience doesn’t make you manipulate the controls “better”, it allows you to fly “smarter”.
Several years ago, I was an instructor at a 141 flight school that did a lot of "GI Bill" training for military and ex-military pilots. My job was to transition them into the civilian way of doing things and train them for the ME ATP checkride. As I remember, they were given up to 20 hours of flight time to make the transition. I probably worked with 50 different individuals with military experience that ran the whole gamut - fighter, bomber, and transport. The transport guys did the best. They were the ones whose experience most closely paralleled what one would encounter in "the real world" of civilian flying. In most cases, it was very easy to transition these people in the allotted time and they, as a group, did very well on the check ride that followed.
The fighter pilots were an entirely different story. The attributes that make a good fighter pilot do not necessarily make the transition into the civilian world. While most of the transport guys were ready well within the allotted time, almost all of the fighter types required the entire program time allotment and even then, there were a few who were pretty "rough". They were good fighter pilots – they could shoot missiles, guns, dogfight, etc. with the best of them. Unfortunately, these are skills rarely required in today's world of airline and corporate flying. The problem was they were good and they knew it and it was hard to tell them anything - they already knew it all.
Three or four years ago I had the opportunity to fly with a recently retired F-15 fighter pilot. The colonel and I flew an Astra SPX all over the country - a couple of hundred hours worth. On paper, his credentials were impressive - nearly 6,000 hours of jet fighter time and all that goes with it. In reality, his 6,000 hours of military time provided him with an equivalent of perhaps 2,000 hours of civilian experience. Basic things that we would take for granted with a civilian pilot with that amount of time just were not there. Skills like the use of weather radar, FMS operation, etc. and even basic instrument approaches had not been honed because they were of little practical use in the military environment. In this particular pilot's case, he had flown less than 5 actual ILS approaches to minimums during his entire career. (We did more that that the first month we flew together.) He was also not comfortable in serious IFR weather or operating at the various high density airports that we frequented. He was forced to play some serious "catch up ball" if you know what I mean. Again, as I said, there is generally no substitute for flight time and experience.
I remember reading an interview that Bob Hoover gave several years ago. Some one asked him why he never flew his Shrike Commander to the various airshows around the country. His answer was pretty insightful - he said that he could either be a good aerobatic pilot or a good instrument pilot, but he couldn't be both.
You'll have a leg up when your service flying is over, but don’t for a minute think that you’re going to be able to step right out of your military jet into the left seat of a civilian bizjet. It ain't going to happen. In fact, it's going to be pretty tough getting a pilot insured in a corporate jet until he has a minimum of 1500 to 2000 hours total time.
As far as NDB approaches go...
In the real world, they just aren't done that much. Granted, there are isolated airports where they frequently used, but the average working pilot could fly for years without running into one "in the wild". With the proliferation of GPS, there's really no excuse to even do one now except for the entertainment value. In the world of FMS equipped corporate jets you'll never have to do one per se - just about any non-precision approach can be flown with a glideslope.
'Sled
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