Cost of buying a used Cessna-172?

[squale]

I was just doing some research on the cost of buying a used Cessna-172 and it's very hard to get a good idea of what price range I will be in.. there are so many different years and different prices all over the place. My main question is for say around 50K or less, what year range and condition C-172 can you get yourself into? I should have my PPL license in another month or so and would definately like to own my next first plane in the next couple of years but don't know if it's a better choice to get an older GA aircraft like a C-172/152 or if I should try to get something brand new in a Special-Light Sport Aircraft? With my PPL license I will be able to take a S-LSA everywhere I can take a GA aircraft and even fly it at night as long as I have the appropriate lighting on the plane. It would be nice to be able to hold 4 people though!

So for anybody that owns their own planes and can give me a good idea on what price ranges I am going to be looking at for a decent C-172 that doesn't need much work at all, please let me know. I am also concerned about what yearly maintenance costs will run me for something like a C-172/152 versus say a newer or brand new S-LSA ?

Thanks all!

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

first of all, stop calling it a license
for 50K, you're looking at a N or P model, 4K or so on the clock

 

[squale]

and something that is an N or P model, are we talking will probably need to have some money dumped into it right away before you can fly it for repairs, etc?

and for the yearly maintenance costs, what is a good estimate here?

oh yeah and insurance, forgot about that one, what does this run you per year for your own airplane?

 

[88_MALIBU]

Buy a cherokee 140-180. Cheaper to buy. Do a search on aircraft ownership, I posted my costs a few weeks ago. $850/year insurance for me and my one eighty

 

[Vladimir Lenin]

Ns are not that good, Ps are OK
money? depends on the engine time
i dont know where you live, can you get a hangar or a tie down for a reasonable cost?

 

[westwind]

Check out Aviation Consumer. http://aviationconsumer.com/index.html You can also find their books at bigger libraries. There are other good books that will help in your search. AOPA's website can provide a wealth of information with a quick search as well. Who has a Light Sport plane on the market right now? Where can you find a Light Sport instructor? Light Sport seems a bit too new to be seen as viable option in your case. Just an opinion. Good Luck. Just don't be too surprised if a serious breakdown of the numbers leads you right back to where you have been renting all along.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

http://www.planequest.com/operationcosts/default.asp

Try this site.

 

[sorenk]

Please forgive my ignorance...
I'm been looking in Airplane trader and seen some planes for 20k. What's wrong with these? too much maintenance & repairs I assume.

Also heard others mention that they would have bought their own plane, or parnership, if they were to get all their ratings through to their CFI. What do you think, if so what plane(s)?

 

[Vector4fun]

We paid mid-$40s for a 1972 L model last year. This aircraft only had 3100TT and a mid time engine. It also had all logs an excellent maint history, and a KMD-150 GPS in it.

The price you (should) pay is going to depend a lot on the avionics installed, and on the condition of the aircraft and it's records. Missing log books are a big warning flag. Recent paint, especially if it's an aircraft from the coasts, ought to make you suspicious of corrosion.

Cessna 172s from '56 to '67 had six cylinder Continental O-300 engines of 145 hp.

'68-'76 models (I-M models) had a 150 hp O-320-E2D Lycoming.

'77-'80 models (N models) used a 160 hp Lycoming O-320-H2AD that had camshaft and lifter problems. Most of these have had the engine modified by now to solve the cam problems, but not all.

In '81, (P models) the engine was changed to a 160 hp O-320-D2J which didn't have the cam problems, and gross was increased to 2400 lbs.

In the $40-50K range, you'e probably looking at a real nice '68 through fair '80 model. Some folks still don't trust the H2AD engine as much as the other Lycoming models, and the price of the N models suffer a bit as a result. Modern avionics and a nice interior can easily add $10K or more to the value of the plane. Missing log books and some suspect, or not well documented repairs can subtract that much.

 

[TDTURBO]

Before you do anything, join and surf the Cessna Pilots Association web site http://www.cessna.org, there is a wealth of info on buying airplanes here. Put aside several months to properly research what you are getting into to see if owning outways renting.


Most of the time, renting is cheaper unless you can write off expenses. Without getting into all the details such as mission demands, SB's AD's, fixed and variable costs, I suggest you research thoroughly and make friends with somebody experienced in buying and inspecting used aircraft.

 

[ISaidRightTurns]

You had better think about what type of flying you will do. When I bought my first plane, I had been renting 172s and the old guys at the FBO, as nice as they were, only knew 172s. There are alot of planes out there, and many people feel comfortable in something they train in, that is understandable. But I think a high wing single cessna is the worst cross country machine made in the last 40 years. Its great for training (spring steel gear, big doors, docile), but it isn't very fast or after a few hundred hours, not very fun. Look and some cherokee 180s and Grummans. I remember hearing that grummans on average were the best deal $/kts.

 

[Vespa]

Airplanes are money pits. Be ready to spend about 2 g's every annual unless you are an A&P. There is always some little thing breaking. You have to fly them often to keep them in good running condition.

I know a guy with a C172 who went to Italy for 3 months and let his plane just sit on the ramp. When he returned, he had to buy a new attitude indicator and replace a lot of hoses. That was about 2 G's. He finally decided to give me the keys so that I could exercise it when he was out of the country and he has had less repair costs. Since I quit flight instructing, he has passed the keys to some other lucky person.

I just got a VFR only transponder check at a bargin basement price of $75.00. Fuel is up to $3.00 a gallon. My husband is a A&P and we had to replace all rubber fuel hoses because of deterrioration. If he wasn't a mechanic, it probably would have cost us at least 1K. We need to spend about 2K on our next annual and my husband is doing all the work. Granted we have a 1952 PA20, but older airplanes always need something every annual.

Shop around for insurence. I could get insurence on a C172 for about $250 a year. I think that you have to have a commercial license or better and at least 500 hours for that price.

On the plus side. I have a friend who has a 1980 C172 on leaseback at a very, very busy flight school and he is making about 1000 a month after insurence and maintenance. You might think about going that route.

Stay away from the M models. The have a lot of electrical problems.

Always get a prebuy from an A&P that you trust. Be wary of planes on EBAY. I know too many people who have been burned.

 

[TDTURBO]

But I think a high wing single cessna is the worst cross country machine made in the last 40 years.

Are you high?

Are you telling me a 210, T182RG are also the worst x-country machines built in the last 40 years?

Sorry, I think they are the best. What else will haul what you can shove in it and go 1100 miles, land short and climb like a bottle rocket?

Try getting some of the planes you mentioned serviced let alone finding parts.

I agree the 172 is not the best x-country machine in the world but you didn't say that, you said the above, I hope that was a mistake.

It has been quoted and said by almost every aviation publication that the 182 was and still is the best all around airplane ever built. It does everything good, not great but good. It has a perfect balance for load carrying and fuel consumption, comfort, range, you name it.

Just because it's a "high wing" doesn't mean it's a 172.

 

[Flyin Tony]

Airplanes are money pits. Be ready to spend about 2 g's every annual unless you are an A&P

Thats far from the truth. The first annual on our comanche cost 240$ thats right 240$ any dumba$$ can pull off the inspection panels and have a IA look up there.

 

[Vector4fun]

But I think a high wing single cessna is the worst cross country machine made in the last 40 years. Its great for training (spring steel gear, big doors, docile), but it isn't very fast or after a few hundred hours, not very fun. Look and some cherokee 180s and Grummans. I remember hearing that grummans on average were the best deal $/kts.

Golly, I had no idea Cessna were such lousy airplanes for X-Countrys.

1978 Grumman Cheetah 1975 C-172

Cruise 75% 128 kts 120 kts
Cruise 65% 118 kts 115 kts

Std Useful Load 938 930

Sevice Ceiling 12,650 13,100

Seats 4 4

Baggage Cap 120 120


(source, Plane & Pilot web site)


So, on a 300 mile leg, that Grumman gets you there 9 whole minutes quicker (at 75%) carrying 8 more pounds according to factory specs. And you can also open the canopy a couple inches and wear a leather flight helmet.

I did some compairisons on Vref, using 1978 models, with 4000TT and 1000 SMOH, and only specifying a King KX155 w/GS as the only radio upgrade for both. The C-172 is worth $55,984, while the Cheetah was only worth $40,639. So you're right, the Cheetah is more "bang for the buck", but then you've got to ask youself why people are willing to pay $15K more for the Cessna. (Insurance, spares, reliability, adaptability???)

And, btw, a 1978 Piper Archer, (Cherokee 180) Vref value is $68,327, another $13K more than the Cessna...

My Cessna does just dandy on 600 mile trips. Beats the heck outta driving for 12 hours...

 

[TDTURBO]

Thats far from the truth. The first annual on our comanche cost 240$ thats right 240$ any dumba$$ can pull off the inspection panels and have a IA look up there.

An annual consists of a bit more than "pulling panels" if done properly. I know guys in AK that think if an annual cost more than 100 bucks you are getting ripped off.

When it comes to my life, I want even SB's taken care of on my part 91 plane. What about compression and leak checks, IFR checks every 2 years? He will want this since he will be using it to get ALL his ratings.

I agree that pulling panels is an easy way to save money, but a good annual entails alot more than that.

 

[Flyin Tony]

Well if your plane has all the ADs and SBs done and nothing is wrong with it then there is not much to do. Now before the annual we put 20k into it. 2 fuelpumps turned into a big mess

 

[Flyin Tony]

But I dont think our plane has all the SB done because there is alot of them

 

[Vespa]

Origionally posted by: Flyin Tony

Well if your plane has all the ADs and SBs done and nothing is wrong with it then there is not much to do. Now before the annual we put 20k into it. 2 fuelpumps turned into a big mess

Well, It is still a money pitt. Even though you didn't spend the money at annual. If you hadn't done it before the annual, it probably would have come up at annual.

All AD's have been complied with on my aircraft. There are some recurring ADs that have to be done periodically. All that I am saying is that owning an aircraft is more expensive than most people anticipate. Especially an older one. Be prepared.

 

[Vespa]

Oops, didn't mean to be so BOLD

 

[TDTURBO]

But I dont think our plane has all the SB done because there is alot of them

As I am sure you are aware Tony, you don't have to comply to SB's unless they are mandatory. There is one on my plane that I didn't do because the mechanic said the cure was worse than the disease. Some of them are rediculous but you still have to comply if it's 135.

I just wanted to make sure the guy doesn't get the false impression that annuals should cost 400 bucks. Maybe after a firewall foreward overhaul and IFR check but SB's come out almost monthly on old planes and even new ones. So keeping up with an old plane ensuring airworthiness can be quite expensive as you found out.

My annuals, owner assisted, range from 1300-10K, it depends on what comes up, watch out for recurrent AD's too, they can easily make or break an otherwise great deal on a plane.

Buyer beware!

 

[Flyin Tony]

As I am sure you are aware Tony, you don't have to comply to SB's unless they are mandatory. There is one on my plane that I didn't do because the mechanic said the cure was worse than the disease. Some of them are rediculous but you still have to comply if it's 135.

I just wanted to make sure the guy doesn't get the false impression that annuals should cost 400 bucks. Maybe after a firewall foreward overhaul and IFR check but SB's come out almost monthly on old planes and even new ones. So keeping up with an old plane ensuring airworthiness can be quite expensive as you found out.

My annuals, owner assisted, range from 1300-10K, it depends on what comes up, watch out for recurrent AD's too, they can easily make or break an otherwise great deal on a plane.

Buyer beware!

Yes I see what you are saying
A few months after we got our plane the bills starting comming in. I bet my Mom dosent have the cards paid off from aircraftspruce yet. But yes they are money pits.
I think most of all you pay for what you get. If your going to buy a 200k 1970 172 I bet you wouldn't have to do a thing to the plane, But if you get a 20K 1970 172 you are going to be in for it

Hope this helps Tony

 

[ISaidRightTurns]

All I'm saying is that people get closed in on the a/c they trained in. Doesn't sound like this guy is trying to make money running lobsters, he just wants a plane. Which everyone here can at the very least understand.

I can't agree that a high wing is a great cross country airplane. After houndreds of hours in both cherokee 14/60s, 172 (6cyl and 4), 150/2, all down the line; a high wing rides crappier. It feels like I'm swinging from a pendulum in anything other than dawn air.

Another thing I forgot to add was that if we open this discussion up to the levels of Turbo 182 RGs and 210s, we are well beyond a 172. I can't think of many cases where I would rather be in a T182RG then a older Bonanza or Mooney. Unless I'm hauling cow poop from the midwest.

 

[TDTURBO]

All I'm saying is that people get closed in on the a/c they trained in. Doesn't sound like this guy is trying to make money running lobsters, he just wants a plane. Which everyone here can at the very least understand.

I can't agree that a high wing is a great cross country airplane. After houndreds of hours in both cherokee 14/60s, 172 (6cyl and 4), 150/2, all down the line; a high wing rides crappier. It feels like I'm swinging from a pendulum in anything other than dawn air.

Hence the never ending "High wing, Low wing" debate.

No doubt, a Cherokee 6 is a great plane, I love those things. When it comes down to that or a 182RG, it's just a matter of person preference I guess.