Corporate CYA checklists

[greasy8driver]

I about to make a transition from 9yrs of 121 flying to the corp. world. I understand that corp. pilots wear multiple hats in the day to day operation. I was just wondering if any of you guys have a checklist you use to cover all your bases. A CYA checklist if you will.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[TXGold]

Now thats funny. Why don't you hire your own dispatcher.

 

[greasy8driver]

Hey TxGold,

Like I said I'm new to the corp. side and I'm just looking for some advice. I can't tell you why they don't have a dispatcher, gee maybe cost. If you don't have any good advice then I'd rather not hear from you. Don't worry I bring plenty of experience to the table. I've had the oppurtunity to fly a four engine heavy left seat through every continent for several years.
I'm glad I made you laugh next time just look in your pants if you want a laugh.

 

[Spooky 2]

I about to make a transition from 9yrs of 121 flying to the corp. world. I understand that corp. pilots wear multiple hats in the day to day operation. I was just wondering if any of you guys have a checklist you use to cover all your bases. A CYA checklist if you will.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Sure there are all sorts of checklists that you can draw from. We use them for any number of tasks, mostly during the preperation phase of the flight planning. Simply to many areas that can cause you to fail just when everything is coming together. A lot of the detail work can be handled by your flight planning organization but only a fool would accept no responsibility for many of the details that need to be covered prior to starting the engines. Flying is the easy part. Making sure that all the details are arranged for the guests in the back is where you can really stub your toes. At my previous employeer it was a standing joke that "we were set up to fail everytime" simply because the owner was such a difficult guy to predict. Wasn't always pretty, but we did a dang good job of meeting his over the top demands, 356/24/7.

Each operation is unique, so what works for you, might not have any application for us. Listen to the guys that your working with and learn from their experiences and you'll probably be just fine. The key is listening and watching carefully when you are new to the game.

As for dispatchers as you would know them, probably not. However many large corp. flight departments, including a lot of Part135 ops have people that are dedicated to "packaging" your trip. These usually go by the name of Flight Coordinators and a good one is worth his/her weight in gold.

Good luck!

 

[Snakum]

My corporate checklist is ...

"Clear right"

"I'll take the fat one, sir."


You'll never go wrong with these two.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Use the A.W.A.R.E. briefing format. PM me if you want more info, I'll be happy to help.

Cheers! and congrats on the new job Greasy.

 

[seawings]

Checklist:

Many of our pilots and flight engineers have developed personal "gentle reminders" that they consult to confirm everything is complete. "What's in it"? What ever that person wants to confirm. Mine covers all the essentials from the simple (is the coffee pot on?) to the critical (have we sufficient fuel?). Let your imagination go...then reduce the print size, laminate and put in your wallet for easy consultation. Welcome to this side.

You start with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck. ​

 

[Spooky 2]

Use the A.W.A.R.E. briefing format. PM me if you want more info, I'll be happy to help.

Cheers! and congrats on the new job Greasy.

I have always found the AWARE briefing pretty inadequate for anything meaningful. Have yet to meet a FA that gave a hoot about the SID or routing you were planning on flying. I believe that AWARE originated at FSI and that probably explains the reason it's so poor. The real point is that yes you need to develope standard briefings and procedures that don't become so booring that they are simply ignored or glossed over by all who are involved.

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

I have always found the AWARE briefing pretty inadequate for anything meaningful. Have yet to meet a FA that gave a hoot about the SID or routing you were planning on flying. I believe that AWARE originated at FSI and that probably explains the reason it's so poor. The real point is that yes you need to develope standard briefings and procedures that don't become so booring that they are simply ignored or glossed over by all who are involved.

That's interesting Spooky. You are correct about the whole point....standardization. We are a Fortune 200 Part 91 corporate flight department and we use the AWARE briefing format. Never had any issues with it not being "adequate or meaningful", and it's what our training provider (yes FlightSafety) teaches. We do have and use a more detailed briefing form(developed in-house) when trips are flown with contract pilots and/or new hire pilots.

I am intersted in what briefing format you and your company use, as we continously evaluate industry best practices.

Thanks.

 

[400A]

It kind of depends on if you are going to a larger multi aircraft department, or a small one aircraft department. If it is a large department, follow company procedures and policies. If this is the case, I assume you will fly with a veteran first. Just remember to pay attention to how they do it. Assuming you do not see anything unsafe, they dont care how you did it at XXXXXXX.

In a smaller operation, just remember you are responsible for everything. Flight planning, passenger comfort, ground transpertation, catering, stock, crew coordination, maintenance, finances and the list goes on. I reccomend flight planning services for International ops. They can be worth their weight in gold.

PM me if you want to reveal details, I might be able to offer some help.

 

[400A]

Now thats funny. Why don't you hire your own dispatcher.

Why dont you say something useful?

 

[sydeseet]

First and foremost, if you're going to do ANY international flying excluding Canada, hire a handler. Even a friendly neighbor like Mexico requires someone to lube the, well you know..... Universal, Jeppesen, Air Routing to name a few.

Additionally, join NBAA and spend some quality time reading through the endless material they have available regarding best practices, checklist, SOP's, etc....

Can you give us the details of your gig? Equipment, expected destinations, etc.....

 

[FlyFlyFly]

" "

 

[FlyFlyFly]

From the useless but funny post bin:

fly a four engine heavy left seat

Never seen one of those...

is it like a JetStar with no windshield?

does it come in red leather?

how does it compare performance wise to the two engine light left seat?

 

[greasy8driver]

It's called a DC-8 captain probably to much plane for you

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Hey TxGold,

Don't worry I bring plenty of experience to the table. I've had the oppurtunity to fly a four engine heavy left seat through every continent for several years.

And tell me, Mr. Heavy Driver, what experience can you bring to the corporate environment by flying a DC-8 around the planet? How many bags have you thrown? How many catering presentations have you put together? How many owners/clients have you had to cater to? Airline passengers don't count; if you've had to deal with them, that is.

I hate to tell you stud, but having heavy international time around the planet doesn't mean sh!t in the corporate world. Get over yourself.

 

[Rxflyer]

Fill us in on the details ! Hopefully, you'll have an experienced guy (or girl) in the other seat. Can't beat a F/O who knows the people (unless he likes that kinda thing...) and their quirks.
Otherwise :
Plane: clean
Ice : fresh
Water : cold
Coffee : hot
Donuts : fresh & plentiful
Watch : 2 hrs early (this prevents finding a tire with cord showing at T-30
minutes...)

Good luck in the new venture !

 

[BOOMER2]

I'm glad I made you laugh next time just look in your pants if you want a laugh.[/quote]

Now that's funny Greasy! I am currently 121 cargo, but have been 91/135 too. Just imagine doing what you have been doing, but add in a lot of ass kissing and extra rediculous bs.

-All normal flying BS
-Arranging hotel & transportation (always nice to be doing an approach in IMC and coordinating the other BS on the ground!)
-Catering on board / corect brand of liquor and soft drinks
-Ass kissing
-Fresh donuts and the specificly requested newspaper
-Ass kissing
-Pax are never on time- waited 13 hours once
-Driver, are we there yet?
-Oh, and be careful with that bag- boy!

Just kidding, it wasn't too bad overall. PM me if I can help, and congrats? I am interviewing to go back to corp in Jan as well.

 

[BOOMER2]

And tell me, Mr. Heavy Driver, what experience can you bring to the corporate environment by flying a DC-8 around the planet? How many bags have you thrown? How many catering presentations have you put together? How many owners/clients have you had to cater to? Airline passengers don't count; if you've had to deal with them, that is.

I hate to tell you stud, but having heavy international time around the planet doesn't mean sh!t in the corporate world. Get over yourself.

My, my, my! Is someone jealous of the heavy-driver; a little DC-8 envy? Why don't you try being helpful instead of an ass? That is the attitude that screws other pilots and aids management's agenda.

Now go play nice with the other kids before you're sent to your room!!!

 

[Junkflyer]

Apparently its much harder to throw bags and call catering than to fly international into places you've never heard of.

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

My, my, my! Is someone jealous of the heavy-driver; a little DC-8 envy? Why don't you try being helpful instead of an ass? That is the attitude that screws other pilots and aids management's agenda.

Now go play nice with the other kids before you're sent to your room!!!

No, no envy whatsoever. I had my chance to fly a heavy airplane (DC-8, actually) international. No thanks. The bigger the airplane, the bigger the suitcase. I enjoy my job. I enjoy sleeping in my own bed 25 nights out of the month (or more). And I enjoy watching my kids grow up. It's all about quality of life for me, I could care less about seeing Brussels in the middle of the night. It looks like LA. Just a bunch of lights in the middle of the dark. It ain't for me.

However, I'd happily take a kid from some charter operator who was flying a King Air in my right seat versus some arrogant heavy driver that's owed something by the world. One is eager to learn the corporate environment, the other is set in their ways (alot of them anyway, those with "international experience in heavy airplanes") and b!tch about throwing bags in the middle of the winter on an icy ramp.

Just one guy's opinion. Take it for what it's worth. That and two dollars will buy you a cup of joe.

 

[Spooky 2]

That's interesting Spooky. You are correct about the whole point....standardization. We are a Fortune 200 Part 91 corporate flight department and we use the AWARE briefing format. Never had any issues with it not being "adequate or meaningful", and it's what our training provider (yes FlightSafety) teaches. We do have and use a more detailed briefing form(developed in-house) when trips are flown with contract pilots and/or new hire pilots.

I am intersted in what briefing format you and your company use, as we continously evaluate industry best practices.

Thanks.

For what it’s worth and probably not much, here is a synopsis of the briefing we use where I work. Part 125/91 operation.

All Hands Briefing: This is dedicated to the FA’s for the most part. Happens to be that on our aircraft we always have at least two FA’s so this can be a definitive factor in the significance of this briefing, especially if we have more than just two and they are contract FA’s at that.

A). Aircraft status. Is everything working in the cabin that would affect your service? i.e., Sat Phones, Video, IFE, Galley Equipment, etc. In other words, is anything broken and deferred in the cabin that would effect your service.

W).Weather. Simple explanation of weather issues that would affect your service en route or at the destination, including pax handling at point of arrival.

E). Emergency situations. Reaffirm a rejected take off procedure regarding a remain
seated or evacuate the aircraft signal from the cockpit. Discuss various possible emergency procedures regarding smoke or electrical smoke in the cabin scenarios, or any other selected emergency topic. This is where the flight attendant would reaffirm that all emergency equipment has been checked.

Departure Briefing:

Something along these lines, and this is done while still in the chocks prior to engine start. As a matter of fact it’s the last item on our Before Start checklist.

• 0 to 80 I’ll reject for any reason.
• 80 to V1, I’ll reject for any Master Warning light, such as engine failure, engine fire, loss of directional control, runway incursion or predictive windshear warning.
• After V1, I’ll take it in to the air and it will become an in-flight Non-Normal.
• I will focus on flying the aircraft and call for the appropriate Non-Normal checklist.
• Depending on the circumstances we will either return to our departure airport, departure alternate or continue on to our destination.
• Any Questions?

Takeoff Briefing:

HAS: Turn left 250, Climb and maintain 10,000, 250Kts until further advised. This briefing is verbalized as we are taking the runway after the takeoff clearance has been received. It simply reaffirms that we are on the same mental page as the aircraft becomes airborne.

These briefing models may or may not work for your operation. My point was that the canned AWARE briefing that FSI has rubber stamped for years now seems to be lacking in some areas. Just one guys opinion and if it works for you, and your flight operation, that’s what matters most.

 

[greasy8driver]

Shegavemetheclap,

Trust me I don't think I'm some aviation god. I'm glad I got the oppurtunity to see some interesting places (most I never care to see again) prior to starting a family. But, I think we finally agree on something QOL and family is the most important thing. Thats why I'm buzzing around the skies in the RJ these days.
I started this thread to open my eyes to the corp. world and get some pointers prior to starting. Not to bash each other and see who has a bigger set.
For those of you who added some useful info. Thank you

 

[SheGaveMeClap]

Greasy,

The easiest thing is just to learn from those already involved in the operation you've been hired into. They'll show you whatever ropes you need to see, and they'll mold you into the kind of pilot they want. As long as you are willing to learn, you'll be in good shape. Good luck.

 

[Spooky 2]

No, no envy whatsoever. I had my chance to fly a heavy airplane (DC-8, actually) international. No thanks. The bigger the airplane, the bigger the suitcase. I enjoy my job. I enjoy sleeping in my own bed 25 nights out of the month (or more). And I enjoy watching my kids grow up. It's all about quality of life for me, I could care less about seeing Brussels in the middle of the night. It looks like LA. Just a bunch of lights in the middle of the dark. It ain't for me.

However, I'd happily take a kid from some charter operator who was flying a King Air in my right seat versus some arrogant heavy driver that's owed something by the world. One is eager to learn the corporate environment, the other is set in their ways (alot of them anyway, those with "international experience in heavy airplanes") and b!tch about throwing bags in the middle of the winter on an icy ramp.

Just one guy's opinion. Take it for what it's worth. That and two dollars will buy you a cup of joe.

It's amazing how these corporate vs Part 121 arguments can grow out of no where. I thought this this thread was a quest for some knowledge on checklists or gouges for getting a new guy off on the right foot in corporate aviation, but it always seems to turn into an I'm better than you argument. I guess that's simply the nature of the beast on this board?

 

[AV8OR]

However, I'd happily take a in my right seat versus some arrogant heavy driver that's owed something by the world. One is eager to learn the corporate environment, the other is set in their ways (alot of them anyway, those with "international experience in heavy airplanes") and b!tch about throwing bags in the middle of the winter on an icy ramp.

Just one guy's opinion. Take it for what it's worth. That and two dollars will buy you a cup of joe.

Wow. You make negative assumptions on the guy's character based on preconceived generalities about 121 pilots, while totally disregarding the fact that a guy with quite a bit of experience in one arena, thought enough of the P91 industry, his new employer, and his coming job to SEEK ADVICE, you jackass. If that's the way you view folks who ask for advice and help, it's pretty easy seeing why you'd prefer to have a "kid from some charter operator who was flying a King Air" in your right seat.

I'd prefer to have a competent, interested, experienced professional, no matter his/her backkground.

 

[FlyFlyFly]

You want a checklist?

Here goes:

1) Get a sense of humor.
2) See someone about your fragile ego. Your mates in your new job will make short work of your impressive four engine heavy jet time.
3) Make sure someone with a clue interacts with passengers, FBO staff and anyone else that may require some level of personal interaction. Your insecurity and inability to lighten up will dick things up if you don't.
4) Allow yourself to say "Well, we always did X at Y airline." only once per month. (you may consider never saying it, but given what I have seen so far, that is entirely too much to ask.)
5) Quit taking yourself so seriously.
6) Quit calling me "Captain". I fly corporate, not 121.
7) Don't forget to have fun. You may need to hire someone to follow you around and remind you of this.

Other than that, just remember that you really have no clue what you are doing for the first six months, so be humble and use that charming personality of yours to get your new co-workers to fill you in...

 

[greasy8driver]

I'm glad your able to lable my personality of a couple of posts on a public forum. That's quite a skill you have.
Anyway, thanks for the checklist I'm going to laminate it and mount it on your wifes back and study it when..... well you know.

Thanks again,

 

[Spooky 2]

You want a checklist?

Here goes:

1) Get a sense of humor.
2) See someone about your fragile ego. Your mates in your new job will make short work of your impressive four engine heavy jet time.
3) Make sure someone with a clue interacts with passengers, FBO staff and anyone else that may require some level of personal interaction. Your insecurity and inability to lighten up will dick things up if you don't.
4) Allow yourself to say "Well, we always did X at Y airline." only once per month. (you may consider never saying it, but given what I have seen so far, that is entirely too much to ask.)
5) Quit taking yourself so seriously.
6) Quit calling me "Captain". I fly corporate, not 121.
7) Don't forget to have fun. You may need to hire someone to follow you around and remind you of this.

Other than that, just remember that you really have no clue what you are doing for the first six months, so be humble and use that charming personality of yours to get your new co-workers to fill you in...

You must be drunk, or.....your just a fuking dip******************** that knows nothing about aviation, much less the human condition. What a complete pitiful *********************************** you are. Get the ******************** of this thread you SOB.

 

[Spooky 2]

You want a checklist?

Here goes:

1) Get a sense of humor.
2) See someone about your fragile ego. Your mates in your new job will make short work of your impressive four engine heavy jet time.
3) Make sure someone with a clue interacts with passengers, FBO staff and anyone else that may require some level of personal interaction. Your insecurity and inability to lighten up will dick things up if you don't.
4) Allow yourself to say "Well, we always did X at Y airline." only once per month. (you may consider never saying it, but given what I have seen so far, that is entirely too much to ask.)
5) Quit taking yourself so seriously.
6) Quit calling me "Captain". I fly corporate, not 121.
7) Don't forget to have fun. You may need to hire someone to follow you around and remind you of this.

Other than that, just remember that you really have no clue what you are doing for the first six months, so be humble and use that charming personality of yours to get your new co-workers to fill you in...

What a complete ********************ing ***********************************. Do us all a favor and crawl back into your low life shell.