Corporate Airlines (AA Connection) J32 down in MO

[climbhappy]

quote: you're a real ass.

flyfast : you've obviously never been tested. As I said this ain't pleasant, but two people in a cockpit on the final segment of a flight have to get it done. calling me an ass doesn't stop the grief of the passengers. I speak out for them.

AV80R: DON'T SPIN what I said.

Fatigue is a cause not an excuse. People are dead. There is no comeback for that. This is not about me. I fly an autopilot equipped boeing. I might as well be sipping a martini over the marker.

But I have the time (4000) in type and in a 1900 to speak. It's a tradegy sure, but don't miss the point. Somewhere during training or IOE someone missed something. When people die in airplanes for reasons like this, if the NTSB finds no other causes, then rubber stamping type ratings and signoffs have got to stop.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

quote: you're a real ass.

flyfast : you've obviously never been tested. As I said this ain't pleasant, but two people in a cockpit on the final segment of a flight have to get it done. calling me an ass doesn't stop the grief of the passengers. I speak out for them.

AV80R: DON'T SPIN what I said.

Fatigue is a cause not an excuse. People are dead. There is no comeback for that. This is not about me. I fly an autopilot equipped boeing. I might as well be sipping a martini over the marker.

But I have the time (4000) in type and in a 1900 to speak. It's a tradegy sure, but don't miss the point. Somewhere during training or IOE someone missed something. When people die in airplanes for reasons like this, if the NTSB finds no other causes, then rubber stamping type ratings and signoffs have got to stop.

You know, I was going to apologoze to you, then I read this quote. You're even a bigger ass than I thought you were the first time. I hope none of your friends ever die this way. Your speculations of rubber stamping types and signoffs is outlandish. If you don't know the CorpEx people, then shut your big mouth!

 

[zonker]

.......

 

[8HourPilot]

My thoughts too. ASA ground recurrent had a similar accident debrief where I believe a Mesaba AC had a CFIT during a non-precision approach in **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty weather. Their AC (Mesaba) was not fitted with a GPWS back then.

Express 1.......not XJ

 

[TIS]

There's something else that needs to be said

Please everyone, I know that this might be regarded as speculation so I'm going to try to stick as closely to facts that can be universally stated as possible.

It seems to me that if the focus is on the GPWS (and I realize it's the media doing the focusing) then the conclusion that this leads to is a CFIT accident. There's a lot of bickering going on about opinions here in this thread and the bottom line is that 13 people died - possibly because no one stopped the rate of descent before impact with the ground. That could be GPWS related but CFIT always has a VERY heavy pilot error component to it as well.

No one ever gets out of bed in the morning and says to themselves, "Gee, I think I'll go smash a perfectly good airplane in to the ground today - ON PURPOSE!"

If the preliminary reports are shown to be accurate in the final analysis, My bet is that pilot fatigue will figure prominently in this accident. Something came unglued out there and so far, it appears that the plane simply flew into the ground without intercedent action by the crew to stop it.

If that's what happened this may well be a watershed accident for pilots. The reason is that it represents an accident where crew fatigue is the most prominent factor in the accident chain. That is, it seems to have caused a loss of situational awareness that went unchecked because a GPWS failed to sound off. This may indeed turn out to be the most direct link between airline scheduling practices and an accident in the history of modern aviation.

As the details emerge through the investigation we will all learn more about how to avoid an accident. That's the point of acciden investigation. But this one could go further than most in changing the way our jobs treat us every day.

TIS

 

[apache]

I just don't know offhand what GPWS alert would prevent a situation where the gear and flaps are down, approach speed is not excessive, and the sink rate is not excessive. The GPWS thinks the airplane is landing, it just doesn't know where. JMHO

 

[apache]

I have removed my post because I do not want to offend anyone who might be sensitive to the truth. I was defending the allegation that Corpex rubber stamps type ratings.

 

[flyn96]

I think thats the reason EGWPS and TAWS was brought up. TAWS(GPWS) has an artificial TCF or terrain floor based on the nearest runway in its database and regardless of AC config it will alert you going below this floor even on perferctly flat terrain. It's to bad they didn't get around to putting it in sooner than the march deadline.

 

[dondk]

From a member of one company who lost airmen recently to Corporate Airlines crews...

We at Pinnacle feel for your loss, we first hand know the darkness that has settled upon your pilot group and wish all of you the best in these times.

Godspeed to ALL the crew members who lost their lives and to their families and loved ones.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Express 1.......not XJ

Thanks, I couldn't remember exactly other than a NWA carrier.