Cool video of my 18-year old student flying my Pitts Special

[NoahWerka]

I worked at a FBO in TEB back in the '80's when flying was great. One of my main jobs was to prep 75-100 hr. students, some who never soloed, to a level of PPL compentency. Most of these guys(and gals) had more money than talent. That's why they had all that "student" time. They could not even hold altitude for three minutes much less do any of the maneuvers required in the PTS. It was a bitch, but when they finally got the hang of it, it was a good feeling. Wether it was poor instruction or not from the start, I don't know, but it really took a lot of hard work to get those people their Certificates. All money does is allow one to extend the frustration of a Student Pilot. Talent and ambition make it sweet. Hats off to any one who can do what that kid can do. Money or not.

 

[hopalong]

Awesome video. This kids got talent and I'm sure a dad who's taught
him quite a bit.
My dad and I got our privates license together years ago and we
have been best buds ever since.

 

[AIR2MUD]

Lear Love -

Having flown civilian aerobatics, in the military, and in my experience as an instructor, there are very few people that even with all the time and money in the world can achieve the skill level of the 18 yr old in that video.

I can understand your sentiments and viewpoint, because I, too, have seen students with more money than brains, talent, or motivation. They simply don't get signed off by me for anything.

This obviously is not the case here.

I will take your opinion exactly as it is, an opinion, but I certainly hope it wasn't formed by a cynical attitude brought on by continuous shafting at US Airways and its subsidiaries/blah blah blah! I'd hate to think that they got to you, too.

'Nuff said.

 

[Jmajoris]

Hbd

Old Bax said it best in Flying magazine: You need HBD, or "Hot Burning Desire" to excel...money is secondary.

This is an interesting question. I don't think you mean any offense, maybe so but I'll assume differently. So the question is: Given enough money what percentage of people could become pilots and eventually learn to fly a Pitts Special as in the video to an FAA Level I Unrestricted (Surface) aerobatic waiver?

Well first let’s look at what percentage of the general population could even learn to fly? I would guess 90% to a Private Pilot level, 75% to Commercial Pilot level, 60% to ATP level, and 50% to an ATP airline pilot level. Now as far as aerobatics are concerned that's something totally different. I would estimate that to safely be able fly a basic aerobatic routine in a Decathlon it would be 60%, in a Pitts the number is 20%. And to fly the advanced maneuvers in a Pitts as shown in the video 5%, and to fly those maneuvers to an FAA Level IV airshow waiver the answer is 4%, to a level III the answer is 3%, to a level II the number is 2%, and to an FAA Level I Unrestricted surface waiver in a Pitts Special as in the video the answer is 1%. That is my best guess.

So really it's a special skill to be able to fly as in the video and only 1% of the population has that ability. I can say that while I like to fly aerobatics, I am not one of the 1% that can earn a Level I waiver and fly a Pitts as in that video, no matter how much money is available. I do believe the 1% estimate is correct.

So while "LearLove" says it doesn't take special skills, just $$$, I know that isn't true. Money is necessary, but it's the skill more than anything else in this case.

Maybe others can comment on this too.........
Especially those with aerobatic experience, military, IAC or airshow waivers.

Maybe "LearLove" will be encouraged, as he says, to take back his comment if he's convinced t do so by other Board members.

Questions, comments are welcome....

 

[No Delay]

Something about that kid reminds me of myself when I was his age

........ I wish!


Seriously, awesome...just totally awesome. I wish I had half his skills.

Don't let any of these losers bring you down. The kid is great. I know it, you know it, and they know it as well.

I might agree that money could get you a pilot's certificate...hell, maybe even a job with the airlines. But it will not take you as far as this kid has gone.

I think it is totally awesome that you can share in this with your son. I am going to start watching for his name at some of the airshows.

 

[inthewind]

Ok, first off I am super jealous. I wish that I'd had the opportunities that this kid got so early in life. Glad to see that dad and he have found something that they can both get into and do so well together. That was said as a parent.

Now to learloser, I have flown tons of aerobatics in the T-34C. Yeah it's no Pitts, but I was a standardization instructor for years in the US Navy training command. Eventually becoming the Out-of Controlled flight recovery standardization stage manager. I flew with all sorts of students and instructors and never witnessed the raw talent that this kid has. The only student that had this sort of talent that I ever flew with was a Marine female. That's right guys, a girl and she could kick all of your a$$es. She was awesome. The only student that I ever saw able to hit the wake at the bottom of a cloverleaf every single time. I really enjoyed working with kind of talent. But on the other hand for the one or two awesome students I literally saw a hundred that no amount of money or instruction could ever bring to this kid's level of proficiency.
So, to Dad I say great job!!! and to learloser I say STFU!!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

To GrowASpine:

It will be a sad day when a father can not be proud of his children. Your comments in this regard are unkind as well as untrue about much of what you have mentioned.

While you accuse me of living my life vicariously through my son’s accomplishments, I think that my accomplishments both professionally and personally speak for themselves. If my greatest fault then, according to you, is that I am too proud of my children, then I would have to surrender to the failures in life who criticize that type of conduct from a father.

So in reality maybe it is you who must live and make posts like you do because of your own failures or lack of accomplishment. Maybe some of your prior posts tell a story about you. Have you read them?

Let’s take a moment to look at just three of your prior posts:

Quote by GrowASpine:

Wrigleyville or Lincoln Park are musts. When I was there last, I had no problems finding a female willing to take her clothes off with me.

Quote by GrowASpine:

You guys spend so much time worrying about Mesa, and bashing them.
No wonder you never get laid.

Quote by GrowASpine:

Dude, you fly for Mesa. You guys are below GJ scum.

As I took a few minutes to review your prior posts at FlightInfo, I found that not one single post was a contribution of any value to this Board, and the few that you did make were disrespectful to women or others just as your post is about me. You are especially disrespectful of those who are successful and are trying to make a living in this difficult industry. I even found that you were in contradiction of other posts that you yourself had made on the same subject just so you could be hurtful to others again and again.

I will not provide any advice to you. But their are answers for you in what you yourself have written on this Board.

May your personal and professional life be more rewarding in the future.

And regarding the video that is the subject of this thread, it is not posted as a video of my son, but only as a "Cool video of my 18-year old student flying my Pitts." I do think, and so have others who have commented that it is all of that. And I do think that others have enjoyed the airshow, enough so the FlightInfo chose to make it a "Sticky" topic.

 

[positiveg]

Undaunted Flyer, does your son post here?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Undaunted Flyer, does your son post here?

No he really doesn’t. Some people like this type of thing (FlightInfo) and others do not. He has his own interests but I’m glad we do share an interest in aviation. I've taught all my children to fly, including my 15-year old. My oldest, my daughter, is a Private pilot and is an elementary school teacher. My son, the one in the video, is a corporate Falcon-10 pilot, and my 15-year old is a HS student who wants to be a patent attorney. I also taught my son-in-law to fly as a wedding present and now he's got a great job as a corporate pilot flying a Falcon 2000. So to best answer your question: It is my only son-in-law who is a member of FlightInfo.

 

[hawaii_boy]

okay .

 

[Regul8r]

I didn't see the video, but I have seen your son perform at competitions before and he is a good aerobatics pilot, no doubt about that. Like the others said, money only opens the door and I think it's great he had the opportunity to experience this if it was worth it for him. However, I always gotten a good chuckle from listening to people say how "demanding" an airplane is to fly, as if it somehow sets them apart from the rest of the aviation community for the better. Then I ask myself what skills that pilot lacks to properly fly the plane in question. It was designed to fly, it ain't rocket science...

 

[twepilot]

hey spine,

You should change the color of your text to Green...As in green with envy. Loser.

RV

 

[Fblowjets]

When will this post end?

 

[Metro752]

When will this post end?

when my dad buys me a pitts special and shows me how to fly like that

 

[Metro752]

Nice landing I would say.

BTW, Hurry up, that Ty Englehardt trade a plane has killed several flies, no bug stains yet! If you want a picture of it, let me know, its in great condition! Still have original trade a plane bag it came in.

 

[canyonblue737]

If this isn't the truth I'll take it back, but I've been around enough in this bizz to see:

another kid with daddy's $$$. I doesn't take special skills, just $$$. Its the simple truth.

your statement is embarassing.

 

[JungleJett]

He is good! A for being 18...... "Hey, what did you do this weekend?" "Not much, hung out with the guys...you?" "Flipped around the sky a bit..not much really!"

Good for him, his father and his skill!

The only thing wrong with the video is that he is not in a Yak or a Sukhoi!

 

[Caveman]

I think the point that's being missed is without dad's deep pockets the kid's talent never gets the opportunity to blossom. He took the opportunity and made the best out of it. Good for him. Without the basic talent it never happens. It also never happens without the money.

Given the same opportunity your son has had there would be a lot more hot stick pilots out there than you think. Clearly not everyone has the 'right stuff' to fly like he does, but IMO cash is a bigger percentage of the equation than most on here are willing to admit.

I also find it interesting that some of the same people that would be lambasting a kid for spending daddy's money at Riddle or a fast track academy are singing this young man's praises. What's the difference?

I am jealous of your son. I wish I would have had the same opportunity. I also recognize that it takes character and a quality upbringing to take advantage of that opportunity and make the best of it. He is a talented pilot, but money is a big part of this and plenty of other people, given the same chance, could rise to this level of excellence.

It's still a cool video and congratulations on encouraging your son and giving him the chance to excel.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The money comparison to Embry Riddle is a good one. The fact of the matter is that money does matter a great deal to my family just as it does to most everyone's family. My son attended a state of Illinois (SIU) aviation school where he attended A&P school, learned to fly and started the school's aerobatic team. The cost of all his education including the Pitt's Special use was less than an Embry Riddle education. This is not to take anything away from ERAU from an educational point of view, but that school is very expensive and probably much more money than attending another state school like SIU or UND, including the use of an S2C (Pitts).

So the the question is: Which is the better choice?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The only thing wrong with the video is that he is not in a Yak or a Sukhoi!

They say when you're out of "Pitt's" you're out of airshow.

 

[JungleJett]

They say when you're out of "Pitt's" you're out of airshow.

Have you seen either do a routine? It is INCREDIBLE what someone good can do with the airplane like Sergei Boriak. The Pitts is a fine aircraft no doubt but the Sukhoi is a monster and built like a tank! Yak has not built a aerobatic airplane in years but they still do well.

Have your son fly a Suk and find out what his feelings are..plus you cannot beat the sound of a Russian radial!

Keep up the good work with your son...hope to see him out on the road.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Have you seen either do a routine? It is INCREDIBLE what someone good can do with the airplane like Sergei Boriak. The Pitts is a fine aircraft no doubt but the Sukhoi is a monster and built like a tank! Yak has not built a aerobatic airplane in years but they still do well.

Have your son fly a Suk and find out what his feelings are..plus you cannot beat the sound of a Russian radial!

Keep up the good work with your son...hope to see him out on the road.

No doubt that Sergei Boriak is a great competitor and the Sukhoi is an incredible airplane, but it certainly seems that as far as commercial airshows are concerned, Sean D. Tucker and Jim "Bulldog" Leroy are the world's most popular performers, both putting on the best public airshows. And of course Bulldog and Sean Tucker fly variations of a Pitts Special. Of course, both of their airplanes have been taken into an experimental category with larger engines and other modifications.

Thanks for your comments about my son, he retired from airshows about a year after receiving his FAA-Level I card. Plus he got married and needed more stable work than performing at airshows. As I'm sure you know, it is very difficult (and dangerous) trying to make a long term living in the Airshow business.

 

[JungleJett]

No doubt that Sergei Boriak is a great competitor and the Sukhoi is an incredible airplane, but it certainly seems that as far as commercial airshows are concerned, Sean D. Tucker and Jim "Bulldog" Leroy are the world's most popular performers, both putting on the best public airshows. And of course Bulldog and Sean Tucker fly variations of a Pitts Special. Of course, both of their airplanes have been taken into an experimental category with larger engines and other modifications.

Thanks for your comments about my son, he retired from airshows about a year after receiving his FAA-Level I card. Plus he got married and needed more stable work than performing at airshows. As I'm sure you know, it is very difficult (and dangerous) trying to make a long term living in the Airshow business.

There is a lack of Suk's on the circuit and I think if there were, well......(I am partial to Russian airplanes.)

Tucker puts on one hell of a show but there is as much Pitts in that airplane as my -50! That thing is so heavily modified that you really cannot call it a Pitts anymore. Still an impressive show.

I am happy to hear your son has called it quits. I have seen more than one person make a small error that cost them there life..and they did so close to the ground. Personally, I do not like low level aerobatics. Although my airplane is capable of semi-unlimited, I keep it mellow. I have a daughter I would like to see grow up.

Now the real ride is The STS! Sign me up for that any day of the week!!

 

[Annie]

JungleJett:

I do not intend to challenge you on your knowledge of aerobatics, but may I suggest that the most terrifying ride is yet to come--watching your daughter grow up!!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

JungleJett: Since you are an experienced and knowledgeable pilot as well as an aerobatic pilot, I would like it if you would comment on the following question.

Of all the entire general population in America, what percentage, given all the money necessary, do you think could obtain their:

Private Pilot Certificate
Instrument Rating
Commercial Pilot Certificate
ATP
ATP with a jet type rating
Fly IAC Sportsman Category
Fly IAC Advanced Category
Fly IAC Unlimited Category

I ask this because some Members of this FI board seem to think that flying acro in a Pitts is just a matter of money. I totally disagree with that opinion. In my opinion flying a jet is nothing compared to flying IAC Unlimited category or flying a high energy airshow in a Pitts or an Extra with an Unrestricted Level I FAA airshow waiver.

Comments from others with aerobatic experience on this question are welcome and would be most appreciated too...

 

[JungleJett]

JungleJett:

I do not intend to challenge you on your knowledge of aerobatics, but may I suggest that the most terrifying ride is yet to come--watching your daughter grow up!!

Annie, I need a G-suit, helmet, puke bag, some serious coaching and tons of airspace for that! I tell you what, she has turned my world upside down and the view is AWESOME!!

 

[Sonny Crockett]

JungleJett: Since you are an experienced and knowledgeable pilot as well as an aerobatic pilot, I would like it if you would comment on the following question.

Of all the entire general population in America, what percentage, given all the money necessary, do you think could obtain their:

Private Pilot Certificate
Instrument Rating
Commercial Pilot Certificate
ATP
ATP with a jet type rating
Fly IAC Sportsman Category
Fly IAC Advanced Category
Fly IAC Unlimited Category

I ask this because some Members of this FI board seem to think that flying acro in a Pitts is just a matter of money. I totally disagree with that opinion. In my opinion flying a jet is nothing compared to flying IAC Unlimited category or flying a high energy airshow in a Pitts or an Extra with an Unrestricted Level I FAA airshow waiver.

Comments from others with aerobatic experience on this question are welcome and would be most appreciated too...

Ok..I'll bite.

Its not all about money. But Contract Y2K at UAL allowed me to sell my Pitts S-2B and buy an Extra 300S brand new from Germany.

I would get off of a trip and fly to some remote location, sit in the hot sun all day long and fly 4-5 15 acro routines while either Phil Knight, Clint Mchenry, or some Russian guy told me how much more I needed to kick, push, beat....etc my body and airplane to the limits. Once the furloughs hit I had to sell the Extra, but I can tell you a Level one card, or getting the Smooth Unlimted patch was much harder than an ATP checkride, its all about how much one wants it....YES it takes $$$$$$ but it also takes skill. There are a lot of Extra 300L owners and Sukoi owners that never pull more than 2 G's becuase they do not have the drive.

Flying competition was fun, but it took way too much of my time, and a lot of my money!!! I enjoy flying some airshows at smaller events and flying for my friends, many had no idea at the skill level involved.

So yes it takes money. But it also takes a heck of a lot of determination and HARD A$$ kicking work.

And the hard part for me. Making the Advanced Team and having to ship your airplane to the UK, taking 1-2 months off of work, and spending a lot of money on AVGAS just to when a trophy, and maybe some hint of interest from your girlfriend who is ticked off that EVERY weekend you are off flying Acro somewhere....it was hard to balance!

But PLEASE Capt'n Al STOP bragging about all the HNL/KOA/LIH layovers (I have to sit next to you pulling gear) and remember one day your son may be my co-pilot (I am 35) and I am sure you will not want me to tell him about all the rant about changing the age to 65!

Aerobatic Pilot, Airline Pilot, Widebody gear operator......who really cares?

 

[JungleJett]

JungleJett: Since you are an experienced and knowledgeable pilot as well as an aerobatic pilot, I would like it if you would comment on the following question.

Of all the entire general population in America, what percentage, given all the money necessary, do you think could obtain their:

Private Pilot Certificate
Instrument Rating
Commercial Pilot Certificate
ATP
ATP with a jet type rating
Fly IAC Sportsman Category
Fly IAC Advanced Category
Fly IAC Unlimited Category

I ask this because some Members of this FI board seem to think that flying acro in a Pitts is just a matter of money. I totally disagree with that opinion. In my opinion flying a jet is nothing compared to flying IAC Unlimited category or flying a high energy airshow in a Pitts or an Extra with an Unrestricted Level I FAA airshow waiver.

Comments from others with aerobatic experience on this question are welcome and would be most appreciated too...

Thats a tough question that I am not sure I can answer properly. A good aerobatic pilot has a multitude of the things going for them; good airmanship, good attitude, excellent situational awareness (!!!!), confidence, and a good set of hands. These cannot be bought with any amount of money. NOW, having the financial resources to get proper training in the proper airplane certainly helps but it does not "buy" what will ultimately keep you from bending metal. That comes from within.

I come from an airline background as well and I will tell you the biggest issue I had/have with aerobatics is confidence. Confidence that the airplane will stay together and that it is ok to go past 30 degrees of bank or 15 degrees of pitch either way. In the airline biz, we think we operate in three dimensions and we may, but on very limited basis. We operate in an environment that keeps the people in the back comfy and the airplane within structural limits. Many get stuck there and will not venture outside of that neat little box. Good for them. If I had the choice to have just a run of the mill FO or an FO that likes to fly aerobatics, I will take the acro FO any day of the week. He will, nine times out of ten be a better pilot. He knows how to fly the airplane instead of the airplane flying him. He may use those skills to keep us alive. I have become a better pilot since I started flying acro.

As for percentages, honestly, if you took a student from the get go and taught them acro, they would do better than a seasoned airline pilot learning acro for the first time. I think the percentages start low, go up and then start back down as someone gains experience. Most guys that I know have been flying acro from the very beginning and they are good. Me, it is still new to me and I am having a tougher time at it and I have thousands of hours in an airplane.

Money helps but there is no amount of money in the world that can replace the things I mentioned. Anyway, flying is about having money. I always ask people what makes an airplane fly..they usually say excessive power and lift...yep..but money really makes airplanes fly.

Flying acro in a Pitts is not terribly hard, flying at the level of your son....is very challenging and takes discipline that simply cannot be bought. For those that think it is simply about money do not have a clue on what goes into a good aerobatic routine. It is a lot easier to snipe from a position of ignorance than it is to get down in the trenches and feel what it is like.

I am fortunate to have a good job with decent pay and a wife that also has a good job. We both work hard and enjoy the fruits of our labor. I will not apologize for what I have and what I can do. I have had the same opportunities as everyone else. If your tooling through life with the autopilot on, then I feel sorry for you. You will never get to where you want to go. Or if you do, you will not be sure how you got there. Me, I look at the world from many angles and sometimes...upside down!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

For those that think it is simply about money do not have a clue on what goes into a good aerobatic routine. It is a lot easier to snipe from a position of ignorance than it is to get down in the trenches and feel what it is like.

JungleJett: Thanks for your reply. I think you hit the nail right on the head with your comments.

UndauntedFlyer

 

[JungleJett]

JungleJett: Thanks for your reply. I think you hit the nail right on the head with your comments.

UndauntedFlyer

Thanks...

So whats the deal with the Shuttle...