Cool Approach

[aucfi]

Dont know if this has been posted before, but I thought it was pretty neat.


http://www.flightlevel350.com/viewer.php?id=3791

 

[gear goes down]

He wasnt on the center line... Kinda neat though. I've only done one approach down to min. in actual.

 

[miles otoole]

Jesus. Looked less than 200 and 1/2.
He certainly wasn't stabilized-did you catch the wing rock over the runway? I wouldn't have been too proud.

 

[TXGold]

Looked pretty stable to me, and then just a little adjustment at the end when he went visual. Great Video!

 

[Mr Wu]

Ring, Ring, Ring, Ring.

It's for you, it's the centreline.......it want's you to come over.

 

[Rally]

Looked good to me ACK is 1600 RVR it looked like way more than that. Shoot that approach many many times.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I hope you all that are saying that looked good aren't serious. I sometimes land a bit off centerline on a bad day, but damm...he was way off.

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
I'll say in defense of the MU-2 pilot that it is easy to get off the centerline when transitioning to visual on a low approach. I've caught myself doing it a few times, and you have to really concentrate. After staring at the flight director and then looking up and trying to acquire visual cues is one of the most dangerous and difficult to do during instrument flying.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Ah, it was an MU2. In that case I retract my comment.

 

[mar]

Tough crowd

The unprovoked criticism is really getting out of hand.

I would be very surprised if there was no adjustment after hand flying an ILS to mins.

Not to mention the pages and pages of Monday morning quarterbacking after SWA at Midway...

...give me a break. It's obvious who's been out there Doin' the Dew and who hasn't.

 

[User546]

One thing is not up for debate - that guy was WAY below the required viz for that approach.

Watch the video closely, and watch the approach lighting cues. The decision bar didn't even come into view until about 400 feet prior. Right as he crossing the 1st 200' light marker do you see the decision bar. Then crossing the runway, pause it right as he's crossing the threshold. You can just barely make out the 500' markers ahead. At best along any part of the approach he had 1,000 feet viz tops.

Photo of the view crossing the runway threshold:
http://www.bartnet.net/~jmt/user997/ack_mins.jpg

For you who are a bit rusty on the distance of the SSALR approach lighting system, below shows the distances along the system.
http://www.bartnet.net/~jmt/user997/ssalr.jpg

If I was Ryan Bert, I wouldn't be putting my name and date of incident on this video.

 

[C601]

Jesus give the pilot a break, he stated in the notes that it was his first experience with a IMC approach to minimums.....

 

[mar]

But the whole point is: You Don't Know!

Can you tell me how clean the windscreen was too?

The video is just for FUN!

Flying is supposed to be fun!

I don't think he made the video to prove anything.

I think we take ourselves a little too seriously sometimes.

 

[User546]

The video is just for FUN!

Flying is supposed to be fun!

Of course it's all about fun, until you got some pilot who continues an approach with half the visibility that he's required, and then ends up killing himself, his family, and maybe a couple people on the ground. Then I guess it turns a bit more serious, doesn't it?

 

[SkyBoy1981]

The unprovoked criticism is really getting out of hand.

I would be very surprised if there was no adjustment after hand flying an ILS to mins.

Not to mention the pages and pages of Monday morning quarterbacking after SWA at Midway...

...give me a break. It's obvious who's been out there Doin' the Dew and who hasn't.

Yeah, but if you landed that far off centerline in the 747, wouldn't you have some of the gear going off of the concrete?

 

[172driver]

I have to agree with User. That wasn't even close to mins and is exactly how people get killed. It wasn't even legal Cat II wx if you ask me. Especially dangerous considering the guy says it's his first approach in IMC to mins. Low time, inexperienced pilot, squirrelly a/c type, and an approach to 600RVR or so, hmmm.

 

[Flying Illini]

Just did that tonight at CMI. Crystal clear, can see the appch end (to the 1000' markers) and the departure end, but nothing in the middle due to dense ground fog. I aim for the #'s to touchdown around the 500' markers, planning to go below the VASI so as to touchdown before entering the fog bank. Well, I miss the 500' markers b/c I flared too early (even with the GPWS 10' increment call-outs)...the visual picture totally threw me, speeding toward a 30' wall of nothingness, and I touch down just as we entered the fog. Fwd vis was limited to 2 centerline stripes. It was a trip! As we slowed, we crossed an intersecting runway and our primary taxiway (runs straight into the FBO) without ever knowing it. We found the next taxiway, and taxied into less dense fog almost immediately (the tower could now see us) to which twr says "aw man, you just cost me a buck! I had my money on you guys coming off on your usual taxiway!"

It was a cool landing. We had the airport in sight 20 miles out, in the clear...we could see the departure end, crystal clear, but the middle 6K feet were completely obscured. Very interesting!

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Whats a low time inexperienced pilot who has never shot an approach to mins doing flying an MU2 to begin with? He must not have insurance on that thing.

 

[mar]

Exactly

Whats a low time inexperienced pilot who has never shot an approach to mins doing flying an MU2 to begin with? He must not have insurance on that thing.

This is exactly the point.

You don't even know that the guy who made and submitted the video is the same guy flying the plane.

If you don't know that then what else don't you know.

It was an interesting little video and that's all. I certainly wouldn't draw any more conclusions that that.

 

[Huggyu2]

Criticize all you want! We should, too. Just make sure you have shark-skin and can take the criticism when we evaluate YOUR video.
Good posting. I'll use the video in some training that I teach.

 

[joe_pilot]

Ok, I won't even touch the centerline issue 'cause I know I've definitely had a few that weren't pretty. But as far as the vis. issue goes, I have a couple of thoughts in the guy's defense. First of all, we are seeing slant range in the video, while rvr is horizontal. I don't think that fully explains it, though. Sometimes a picture isn't worth a thousand words. The video on the site is 320 x 240 and I'll bet there was some detail loss due to interpolation errors in the codec, not to mention that at low light levels CCD's don't exactly perform at optimum. Low-res video just doesn't show nearly what we actually see. Consider this: in football games broadcast in standard NTSC you are lucky to be able to read a player's name on their jersey, while with Hi-Def HDTV broadcasts you can tell who's jersey the fan sitting in the stands is wearing. I've had great views of say the Golden GateBridge from 3 to 5 thousand ft, snapped a picture with my 4.3 mp camera that look NOTHING like what I saw. I wouldn't use the RAW video he shot to try and measure RVR, let alone the streamed version.

Now let's look at the data. The video was obviously shot in the daytime. Sunrise at KACK that day (31Jul04) was at 0934Z and sunset at 2357Z. Let's look at the metars during that time. From 1132Z(0953 loc) until sunset the reported weather was legal! (assuming pt135 ops) Only the 0953Z, 1053Z and 1253Z observations reported wx below the published mins. The reports showing the wx below mins were all before 0930 local time and from the video it appears it is at least noon or later.

Some of you would have been crying for your mothers if you had been with me this fine morning at RDU - SPECI KRDU 091641Z COR 07003KT 1/4SM +SN FZFG VV004 M01/M01 A3018 RMK AO2 P0002. Freight Dogs fly ALL THE TIME in wx like this. Remember this video?

For those of you who have hand flown a GA aircraft down to minimums and are trying to pick this guy apart for anything OTHER than being left of centerline please stop.

For those of you who have never hand flown a GA aircraft down to REAL minimums and are picking this guy apart, well...just shut up.

-JP

 

[joe_pilot]

...and yes, I DID spend some time researching this. Sometimes I just get tired of the armchair,monday morning quaterbacks. It is bad enough when the talking heads do it, why do some of you pilots do it too?

If you're going to argue a point, please at least have some decent evidence.

Merry Christmas, Happy Yule, all that other stuff.

-J

 

[joe_pilot]

Dont know if this has been posted before, but I thought it was pretty neat.


http://www.flightlevel350.com/viewer.php?id=3791

Yep AU, it is a cool video. Thanks for posting it.

-JP

 

[$$$4nothin]

You should all go to HE!!

Being an ex freight dog in the North East during the winter I have probably shot more 1800rvr and 100vv aproaches in one night that some of you monday morning quarterbacks have in your life. The fact is when you are in a GA airplane hand flying an approach like that you really don't give a crap what part of the runway you land on as long as you don't bend anything. Anybody that disagrees with that has either never done it, or is full of it. Thank you joe pilot for putting these idiots in there place. Nice video, and way to get the job done.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

This is exactly the point.

You don't even know that the guy who made and submitted the video is the same guy flying the plane.

If you don't know that then what else don't you know.

It was an interesting little video and that's all. I certainly wouldn't draw any more conclusions that that.

I don't know anything....I didn't even read the footnotes on the video when I watched it. I'm just going based on what you clowns here are saying.

 

[CRJDispatchKid]

http://www.flightlevel350.com/viewer.php?id=3791


Cool video. Good to see MKE is on top of their snow removal!

 

[TurboS7]

My guess is that the pilot has done hundreds of these type of approaches, could be in the sim too, all you see are lights. He is just pulling everyones leg and you guys all fell for it.

 

[pilotpat]

My guess is that the pilot has done hundreds of these type of approaches, could be in the sim too, all you see are lights. He is just pulling everyones leg and you guys all fell for it.

Umm...sim??? Mmm...no. I hope you're trying to crack us up. As far as how 'dangerous' the approach was, it didn't look that bad. See the ALS, go down another hundred - see the runway - land. Looked pretty basic. It just happens fast. As far as the centerline...well, who hasn't done that a few times??

 

[DX Rick]

I've had a video camera onboard for approaches like this as well. The video makes the vis look worse than it actually is. Unless you were there, and KNOW for a FACT he busted.....shut up

 

[Cat Driver]

Well I know I shouldn't comment.

But...had the guy holding the camera ( if in fact someone was ) had been used in the PMA method of performing low vis approach / landing the results would probably have been more stabalized with regard to holding centerline after runway environment was confirmed..

But what the hell do I know.