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Continental (new UA) or US Airways?

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FrontierFan

Well-known member
Joined
May 3, 2004
Posts
106
Not sure if it has been discussed but with all the rumors of both possibly hiring in the fall which would you choose over the other if both offers were made.

Living in base in IAH or CLT are both fine, age is early to mid 30s, have no kids, spouse can move anywhere, have no debt (or house to sell).

Question is for wife. She is one of thousands of RJ capts looking to move on.

Thoughts?
 
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At the present time they both suck. But United has a more sure future IMHO and pays better with a better contract. US Airways comes with a lot of uncertainty but is probably going to be OK in the long run.

But back to reality, you go with the one that offers you a class date.
 
Well while trying to weigh all the pros and cons, the thought of getting in pre-merger with AA and all the combined retirements may trump the better UA contract now. Big risk but may be worth it...
 
FrontierFan said:
Not sure if it has been discussed but with all the rumors of both possibly hiring in the fall which would you choose over the other if both offers were made.

Living in base in IAH or CLT are both fine, age is early to mid 30s, have no kids, spouse can move anywhere, have no debt (or house to sell).

Question is for wife. She is one of thousands of RJ capts looking to move on.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

USAir may turn into AA, and both USAir East and AA have a very old pilot group. Yes, USAir has been in turmoil since AWA bought USAir, but a lot of that might be cleared up in arbitration if the merger with AA happens. USAir has 3 groups currently, the USAir East whiners, the AWA guys, and then everyone hired after the merger. Those three will probably be merged with the NIC award, and then the APA will have an arbitrator mix the group afterwards. Since AA has a lot more widebodies and a larger INTL presence, I would think there could be some fences around some of the planes in a merge, but your wife probably wouldn't have to worry about that for 5-10 years anyway.

UAL and CAL have the same, lots of retirements coming up, which means movement. They also have issues with future seniority list integration, but they are ahead of the US/AA guys. Lot's of widebodies, but their future contract will say alot about their scope and if they can retain the 50 seat limit on RJs, even though UAL has lots of 76 seaters flying around now.


With good contracts, I think both of those could provide quick movement up the ladder with all of the retirements scheduled at all of those airlines (CAL, UAL, AA, US). I would throw in apps to both, take the first one that offers, and then tell your wife to hold on for the first couple of years, and then it could really be nice. We all have to get over these 9-11 concessionary contracts we were all thrown under in BK.... A good contract later could be a real boost.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
General Lee said:
USAir may turn into AA, and both USAir East and AA have a very old pilot group. Yes, USAir has been in turmoil since AWA bought USAir, but a lot of that might be cleared up in arbitration if the merger with AA happens. USAir has 3 groups currently, the USAir East whiners, the AWA guys, and then everyone hired after the merger. Those three will probably be merged with the NIC award, and then the APA will have an arbitrator mix the group afterwards. Since AA has a lot more widebodies and a larger INTL presence, I would think there could be some fences around some of the planes in a merge, but your wife probably wouldn't have to worry about that for 5-10 years anyway.

UAL and CAL have the same, lots of retirements coming up, which means movement. They also have issues with future seniority list integration, but they are ahead of the US/AA guys. Lot's of widebodies, but their future contract will say alot about their scope and if they can retain the 50 seat limit on RJs, even though UAL has lots of 76 seaters flying around now.


With good contracts, I think both of those could provide quick movement up the ladder with all of the retirements scheduled at all of those airlines (CAL, UAL, AA, US). I would throw in apps to both, take the first one that offers, and then tell your wife to hold on for the first couple of years, and then it could really be nice. We all have to get over these 9-11 concessionary contracts we were all thrown under in BK.... A good contract later could be a real boost.


Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

"Whiners?" You Private Lee are a liar sir if you tell anyone you wouldn't whine if they put a 2 month guy ahead of you if you had 16 plus years of service...but I'm guessing you are a young new hire who would love to take my job. Yep I'm a whiner!! The TA with AWA/AAA (the AAA is ALPA id for All American Airways which was the CBA we had then) dictates that the Nic seniorty list becomes affective with the ratification of a contract with the company. A ratification of a contract with us will never happen and a new TA between Airways and AA would create a new "contract" nullifying any proposed earlyer TA. How could our current TA survive in any way with a new corporate controlled merger/aquistion? Anyone out there stupid enough to want to do this job...you might have been lucky...every major airlione is going to retire huge numbers of pilots which means you will have something called "seniority" meaning the date you are hired will control your advancement and all you young pups will be captains in your 30's.
 
charlie2 said:
The TA with AWA/AAA (the AAA is ALPA id for All American Airways which was the CBA we had then) dictates that the Nic seniorty list becomes affective with the ratification of a contract with the company. A ratification of a contract with us will never happen and a new TA between Airways and AA would create a new "contract" nullifying any proposed earlyer TA.
Click to expand...

Comical.
 
charlie2 said:
"Whiners?" ....
Click to expand...
Generally people seeking advice prefer unbiased perspectives. Folks who embroil themselves in affairs not their own, as the good "General Lee" has done, set themselves apart as suspect at reasoned, dispassionate observations and advice.

He has discredited himself. There is no need to answer him.
 
Turtle21 said:
Generally people seeking advice prefer unbiased perspectives. Folks who embroil themselves in affairs not their own, as the good "General Lee" has done, set themselves apart as suspect at reasoned, dispassionate observations and advice.

He has discredited himself. There is no need to answer him.
Click to expand...

Your group accepted binding arbitration, and then you didn't like the result, so you used the numbers of your group to kick out ALPA. That is shameful. If you do merge with AA, the APA will takeover thanks to your AWA friends helping to vote it in, and you will be out numbered this time. There is no doubt the APA guys will go to arbitration to get a SLI with your two groups (primarily to fence off their larger equipment), and the AWA pilots will probably have people giving those arbitrators the NIC award to review. (Nicelau apparently is a very respected arbitrator, and the others will most likely review it and probably agree with it) I bet it will be reinstated by the eventual arbitrators, and you will have to agree to it this time. We'll all be watching.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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charlie2 said:
"Whiners?" You Private Lee are a liar sir if you tell anyone you wouldn't whine if they put a 2 month guy ahead of you if you had 16 plus years of service...but I'm guessing you are a young new hire who would love to take my job. Yep I'm a whiner!! The TA with AWA/AAA (the AAA is ALPA id for All American Airways which was the CBA we had then) dictates that the Nic seniorty list becomes affective with the ratification of a contract with the company. A ratification of a contract with us will never happen and a new TA between Airways and AA would create a new "contract" nullifying any proposed earlyer TA. How could our current TA survive in any way with a new corporate controlled merger/aquistion? Anyone out there stupid enough to want to do this job...you might have been lucky...every major airlione is going to retire huge numbers of pilots which means you will have something called "seniority" meaning the date you are hired will control your advancement and all you young pups will be captains in your 30's.
Click to expand...

Hey, agreeing to arbitration and then not accepting it is shameful and a disgrace to many. Just because you don't think so, doesn't mean EVERYONE else doesn't. You might not care, but I bet the APA will. It doesn't matter how many years a guy 2 months junior to you had, if your airline was about to liquidate. If you are at the bottom of one airline, you will be at the bottom of a merged airline. There was NOTHING keeping you at a failing airline, unless you were unhireable somewhere else. Other arbitrators besides Nicelau agree with that premise, because that is how they ruled on subsequent awards. It wasn't just NIC. Get used to it, that is how it is done these days. If you don't like it, go to Qatar.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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so... if UA and US were both on the table at the same time, which would you pick?
 
charlie2 said:
"Whiners?" You Private Lee are a liar sir if you tell anyone you wouldn't whine if they put a 2 month guy ahead of you if you had 16 plus years of service...but I'm guessing you are a young new hire who would love to take my job. Yep I'm a whiner!! The TA with AWA/AAA (the AAA is ALPA id for All American Airways which was the CBA we had then) dictates that the Nic seniorty list becomes affective with the ratification of a contract with the company. A ratification of a contract with us will never happen and a new TA between Airways and AA would create a new "contract" nullifying any proposed earlyer TA. How could our current TA survive in any way with a new corporate controlled merger/aquistion? Anyone out there stupid enough to want to do this job...you might have been lucky...every major airlione is going to retire huge numbers of pilots which means you will have something called "seniority" meaning the date you are hired will control your advancement and all you young pups will be captains in your 30's.
Click to expand...
Whiner.
 
Andy said:
76 seaters? Really? You sure about that? How many Q400s are flying for United Express?
(Of course with the Q400's reliability, the answer is 'not very much').
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant larger RJs. Plenty of E170s and CR7s flying for you, along with a myriad of E145s and CR2s. DL has the same problem. Your Dash's of course are going from Colgan to Republic, as you probably know.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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I think AA has a lot of pilots that are furloughed. If we merge I would DEMAND that any of those furloughed pilots who were hired there before I was hired that they are put above me on the seniority list. Any questions?
 
Remember that the 16 year guy was at the bottom of his list and wasn't working at the airline for 16 years. The merger shouldn't green light his launch up the pilot list. The 2 year guy was at the bottom of his list too and should not be stepped on by the newly-recalled furloughee.

And since the whole integration shebang was only going to result in an 18 month delay in movement for the 16 year pilot (at most) was it worth it to fight a 7 year civil war over it? Nicolau got it right. Bradford and his east lemmings didn't.
 
Bringupthebird said:
Remember that the 16 year guy was at the bottom of his list and wasn't working at the airline for 16 years. The merger shouldn't green light his launch up the pilot list. The 2 year guy was at the bottom of his list too and should not be stepped on by the newly-recalled furloughee.

And since the whole integration shebang was only going to result in an 18 month delay in movement for the 16 year pilot (at most) was it worth it to fight a 7 year civil war over it? Nicolau got it right. Bradford and his east lemmings didn't.
Click to expand...

Yes it was worth it.
 

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