Continental Actually furoughs.. this sucks

[tie1on]

Got to love contract neg. They are furloughing on Sept 9 148 pilots with another 31 professionals in the wings.

Mgt is pissed that the pilots/MEC voted down the piece of s**t LOA about JV opportunities.

Now going from " First to Worst". Ge ready for the ride

 

[Say Again Over]

Ryan Intl may be hiring, good luck to all.

 

[SFR]

Management may be pissed, but we will see what their counter-offer is.

The furloughs are not new news anyways, we have known about that for a few weeks.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Management may be pissed, but we will see what their counter-offer is.

Bet on it. Mgmt wants this bad and will continue to come back to the union and this pilot group until it gets what it wants or completely destroys the culture that has been built here over the last 14 years.

 

[ATRCA]

I'm not the only one who would rather take my furlough than;

1. Sit reserve for the next 2 yrs
2. Give up one sentence in the current "contract"

This furlough isn't the end of the world. Most of us are on 1st year pay. I was able to find work that pays far more than my CAL pay within a week of getting my furlough notice. I'm not that worried frankly and I'm looking forward to the time away for a little while.

 

[Furloughed80]

Honestly, I see the recent actions taken by management only making this pilot group stronger and stronger. To furlough pilots out of spite is unconscionable; and if that is what CAL management did, then they have caused themselves irreparable damage. I have completely lost faith in this organization.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

Bet on it. Mgmt wants this bad and will continue to come back to the union and this pilot group until it gets what it wants

From my understanding they wanted us to allow them to do revenue sharing with United and Luftansa Airlines as part of our new Star Alliance membership. The alliance doesn't take effect for another year so I don't think they are in any hurry. The hurry was to get the LOA passed before the pilots were furloughed. I don't agree with managements actions but I think it is important to understand the thought process of the ones sitting across the table from you.

 

[ATRCA]

From my understanding they wanted us to allow them to do revenue sharing with United and Luftansa Airlines as part of our new Star Alliance membership. The alliance doesn't take effect for another year so I don't think they are in any hurry. The hurry was to get the LOA passed before the pilots were furloughed. I don't agree with managements actions but I think it is important to understand the thought process of the ones sitting across the table from you.

I fail to see why we should give them anything at all. Furlough or not our contract is terrible. There is nothing in that contract that is negotiable. I don't care how long they are willing to wait. I just don't think there is anything to talk about.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

I fail to see why we should give them anything at all. Furlough or not our contract is terrible. There is nothing in that contract that is negotiable. I don't care how long they are willing to wait. I just don't think there is anything to talk about.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[pipe]

Just out of curiosity, is there any historical precedent for furloughing while making money? I don't remember this ever being done anywhere in the past.

PIPE

 

[maxblast72]

Just out of curiosity, is there any historical precedent for furloughing while making money? I don't remember this ever being done anywhere in the past.

PIPE

Is any investor analysts predicting Continental to be profitable for the 3rd or 4th quarters? I doubt any of the domestic capacity being reduced is actually profitable.

Do you really think Continental (and all other airlines except Southwest) took these bigger than normal post Labor Day reductions because they wanted to or were scared by the cash burn rates that $4/gallon Jet A created a few months ago?

Drill more now, conserve, nuclear, and alternative. We need more of all 4 right now to send the right message to the energy speculators or this industry is going to continue to get worse before getting better.

 

[motch]

From my understanding they wanted us to allow them to do revenue sharing with United and Luftansa Airlines as part of our new Star Alliance membership. The alliance doesn't take effect for another year so I don't think they are in any hurry. The hurry was to get the LOA passed before the pilots were furloughed. I don't agree with managements actions but I think it is important to understand the thought process of the ones sitting across the table from you.

For your "Understanding"
It never mentioned United by name! First NO
It would allow a revenue sharing between any DOMESTIC carrier on International flights, no matter size of aircraft! Second NO

Motch-

Trying to make sure everyone knows all the FACTS before making a decision!

 

[Paul R. Smith]

I just wanted to mention that 6 out of the 16 in my class took COLA 10. Don't know about the rest of 2007 but they hired some good folks into Oct 9 2007.

Good luck to all, and I hope the cola helps.

 

[motch]

Paul.. could you go to CalForums and see my thread about the LTVRF's.. love to add their names!

If you're not a member, could you PM me the info!

Thanks
Motch

 

[Double Shot]

Bet on it. Mgmt wants this bad and will continue to come back to the union and this pilot group until it gets what it wants or completely destroys the culture that has been built here over the last 14 years.

What culture?

 

[Palomino]

What culture?

how refreshing...a SWA guy taking a cheap shot while guys are hitting the streets at CAL. i know you are in the minority at SWA. please don't influence the majority and ruin your own place of work.

 

[millhouse21]

Just out of curiosity, is there any historical precedent for furloughing while making money? I don't remember this ever being done anywhere in the past.

PIPE

I'm pretty sure Trans States has never lost money but they furlough all the time.

 

[ATRCA]

how refreshing...a SWA guy taking a cheap shot while guys are hitting the streets at CAL. i know you are in the minority at SWA. please don't influence the majority and ruin your own place of work.

I was thinking the same thing. Contrary to what most think not everyone wants to work at SWA. I have nothing but respect for the company but its just not my style. I have plenty of time, PIC, a 73 type and I have honestly never applied to SWA.

I have also always found their crews to be humble and respectful. There are always exceptions of course.

 

[bcp7]

I just don't see how furloughing all these first year pilots saves any money with the re-training and base movements that will occur because of the furloughs.

 

[ACWild]

I just don't see how furloughing all these first year pilots saves any money with the re-training and base movements that will occur because of the furloughs.

It won't save money. The furloughs are an attempt by management to get CAL pilots to cave on our scope. CAL is paying for a frikkin' parking lot at a Florida airport for one exec that costs about the same as what the furloughees would have made in a year. This isn't about cost savings, no matter how they want to present it.

 

[Turtlesfly]

I'm not the only one who would rather take my furlough than;

1. Sit reserve for the next 2 yrs
2. Give up one sentence in the current "contract"

This furlough isn't the end of the world. Most of us are on 1st year pay. I was able to find work that pays far more than my CAL pay within a week of getting my furlough notice. I'm not that worried frankly and I'm looking forward to the time away for a little while.

You are WAY messed up. Two major problems with this post:

1. You are a professional pilot at a MAJOR airline. One that flies big planes. Lots of people. You have spent years and thousands of $$$ on your education. And your response when you lose your job is, basically, "well this job is so bad and we don't make anything that it's easily replaceable doing anything in life." That's messed up.

2. You don't want to sit reserve for 2 years? Boo-hoo! Waaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

 

[nimtz]

You are WAY messed up. Two major problems with this post:

1. You are a professional pilot at a MAJOR airline. One that flies big planes. Lots of people. You have spent years and thousands of $$$ on your education. And your response when you lose your job is, basically, "well this job is so bad and we don't make anything that it's easily replaceable doing anything in life." That's messed up.

2. You don't want to sit reserve for 2 years? Boo-hoo! Waaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

Grow up junior. You don't work for CAL so you have no idea how he feels. Remind me to have your attitude towards XJT when JR turns up the concession talk...

 

[Turtlesfly]

Grow up junior. You don't work for CAL so you have no idea how he feels. Remind me to have your attitude towards XJT when JR turns up the concession talk...

You defend whining and treating the profession as a job that pays no more than an entry-level position? Or is it that same old contempt for us "regional" people?

 

[scudrunner]

How far back is the furlough?

 

[ACWild]

You defend whining and treating the profession as a job that pays no more than an entry-level position? Or is it that same old contempt for us "regional" people?

I think he's saying that you need to "walk a mile in his shoes" before making any assumptions. Many of the X-Jetters that I've spoken with have told me how X-Jet has better work rules than CAL. Keep that in mind for reference when you hear CAL pilots "whine."

As ATRCA is one of the guys being held hostage by CAL management for leverage on scope, I applaud him for standing his ground and not crying for us to give in. At least that's how I'm reading it.

 

[Homer Jay]

You are WAY messed up. Two major problems with this post:

1. You are a professional pilot at a MAJOR airline. One that flies big planes. Lots of people. You have spent years and thousands of $$$ on your education. And your response when you lose your job is, basically, "well this job is so bad and we don't make anything that it's easily replaceable doing anything in life." That's messed up.

2. You don't want to sit reserve for 2 years? Boo-hoo! Waaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!

WOW...You truly have NO clue! There were quite a few XJ guys in my new hire class that took a COLA just because the work rules were so bad that they would rather be unemployed than stick around on the bottom and bear the brunt. And you're right, this is major, but with the WORST work rules of any airline I have worked for. People like us at the bottom are trying to make this a major worth flying for...

 

[Double Shot]

Sorry guys about your jobs but during my 4 years of employment with the place there was nothing that would have kept me there for the long term. Trust me there are better places to work.

I left for one of them. So when I comment about culture, unless things have changed, and from the looks of it it hasnt..... what culture?

 

[luckytohaveajob]

what culture

Bet on it. Mgmt wants this bad and will continue to come back to the union and this pilot group until it gets what it wants or completely destroys the culture that has been built here over the last 14 years.

What culture?

The culture that picks up as much 150% pay as possible with guys being furloughed?

The culture that keeps the airline more short staffed than any other?

The culture that broke the strike?

The culture that flys without rigs?

 

[PSL]

Double Shot ...

Please remove your insensitive post and aploogize to the CAL pilots.

Your remarks do not bring credit to our pilot group's reputation.

If we have the opportunity to fly with one another I will share my family's pain as we endured 5 furloughs, two stints overseas and 2 'less than stellar' corporate flight departments before SWA offered me a job.

On a related note ... you will find me of the captains who is pushing for the FO payscale to be reworked to reflect our longer upgrade times.

 

[jumppilot]

You defend whining and treating the profession as a job that pays no more than an entry-level position? Or is it that same old contempt for us "regional" people?

Turtlesfly,

Don't lose sight of what is going on.

These pilots are hostages, pure and simple. See Motch's post on what the language actually said. For the company willing to not furlough with this LOA, with a lot of management snap backs, such as the cost of fuel blah blah, yet them still have their scope, is out of line.

I'm on first year pay, and I have found jobs that pay more. While everyone here knows they will have their seniority number, to make more money, avoid B reserve, having days off rolled, etc, it's a lot easier to say 'bye' for a few months. For me, I'd gladly take B in Newark commuting; but I'm single and don't have kids. To each their own.

Trust me, I'm there and that's the way it is.

I don't know you, but I know you realize we all want the same things as pilots.

Things are not all rosey at CAL, especially on first year pay.

PSL: I think DoubleShot made his point. He has worked for CAL and left for other employment... he understands. There are a lot of people who would leave if given the chance.