Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Conspiracy theories?

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Re: Exactly

mar said:



My personal feeling is it was a mob hit. Robert Kennedy was Atty Gen (thanks to JFK) and the mob hated him. Of course, they eventually got him too.

Why cover it up? It could be that simple; to preserve confidence and order. I don't know. But the facts are pretty simple.

--The mob hated the Kennedys
--Oswald was placed at the scene
--Oswald was a good shot but not in the best location
--The head shot caused a rearward motion and quite a large piece of skull was blown back
--The forensics were rushed and sloppy--even butchered


:confused:

Well it it was a mob hit then it had to have the "blessings" of those in the know in the government. Also, to say it was a mob hit implies the mob is bigger than the government (especially the CIA and FBI). I agree though there are unanswered questions as well as "facts" that defy logic.
We'll never know. Just like Vince Foster. It's bigger than any of us.
 
If Oswald was the lone gunman, why wouldn't he take credit for the assination? Why would a dedicated Marxist who just shot a president proclaim he was only the pansy? This kinda leads me to think that he was some how involved but not the actual shooter.
 
Kennedy assasination

KigAir said:
If Oswald was the lone gunman, why wouldn't he take credit for the assination? Why would a dedicated Marxist who just shot a president proclaim he was only the pansy? This kinda leads me to think that he was some how involved but not the actual shooter.
Perhaps he was assisted by Badgeman and others.

No kidding. My father and I obtained the Warren Commission report when I was 13, a year after the assasination. I still have it around someplace. I read the Warren Report from cover to cover and read it again several years later. The apparent fact that Oswald acted alone is still hard to believe.

I don't know anything about firearms, but most every weapons expert has said that the Mannlicher-Carcano carbine Oswald used was a sh!t rifle and that Oswald was only an average shot. Every expert said that squeezing off three rounds in rapid succession was impossible with that weapon. I found this reference.

The data from this study suggests that Oswald was, at most, capable of firing two shots in the time allotted by the Warren Commission. The study was limited by the number of shooters (N = 6), however each shooter completed each task three times, giving somewhat greater data. Assuming that Lee Harvey Oswald was not a more skillful shooter than school-trained SWAT officers, the data undermines the assertion by the Warren Commission that Oswald was capable of firing three rounds in the time they specified.

(emphasis added)

Moreover, the Zapruder film shows Mr. Kennedy's skull exploding from the back. Could that happen from the angle Oswald took from the Texas School Book Depository?

Also, it came out about fifteen years ago that Mr. Kennedy's autopsy was flawed and proper protocols were not observed. Also, it came out proper protocols were not observed when Mr. Kennedy's body was placed in the coffin and taken back to Washington.

I'd say that Jim Garrison was on to something when he put Clay Shaw on trial, but he did not or could not get to the bottom of it all.

But, who knows for sure? I'm not real keen on conspiracy theories, but something ain't right here.

If you had lived through that time, you might have found JFK to be a fascinating movie.
 
Last edited:
One of the men Garrison implicated in the conspiracy was David Ferrie, a fervent supporter of the free-Cuba movement and a former Eastern Air Lines pilot.

Why is it that anytime there's something funny going on, there's an Eastern guy involved somewhere...? :eek:
 
Re: Exactly

mar said:
My personal feeling is it was a mob hit. Robert Kennedy was Atty Gen (thanks to JFK) and the mob hated him. Of course, they eventually got him too.
I have to go with your theory, Mar. I saw a pretty good documentary on the Kennedy and what they'd done to the mobsters (from as early as the '50s when JFK was on the McClellan Cmte, then RFK as Atty Gen).

All these attacks after the kennedys had solicited the mob for support. Probably didn't make things too cozy between them.

Lots of reasons to go after the kennedys it seems. Kind of ironic... with pappa Joe being the kind of "connected" bootlegger he was.
 
Apparently, Mar and I, and a bunch of us, agree again.

The audio is awful since it was a recording of police radio that came from the stuck mic on a police motorcycle radio.

I don't believe for a moment that Oswald was able to get off those three rounds in the allotted time.

The extra shooters were either mob hitters or disgruntled CIA guys who lost frineds in the bay of pigs.

The grasssy knoll and the overpass are both good emplacements, but an interesting theory includes a storm drain that was big enough for a man and his weapon, also ahead of the limo.

I also read somewhere that there is testimony that describes a different casket in dallas (at the hospital?) than the one that was being offloaded at Andrews.

You can go on and on. I know that I can, too. I wonder if we will ever klnow, with any degree of certainty, what actually happened.
 
One more thing.

In the late 70's Hugh McDonald, an ex-CIA operative and retired LA county sheriff, wrote a small book in which he detailed an account related to him by an old CIA acquaintence code named Saul. Saul supposedly told McDonald that the original plan was for the real assasins to shoot JFK, then he, Saul, was going to shoot Oswald. Oswald had been convinced that he was a legitimate shooter, but the real shooters knew that he was only a decoy. Oswald was stationed in an obvious window and was expected to draw return fire from some LEO. As soon as the LEO's returned fire, Saul who was on the roof of the courts building ninety degrees rotated from the depository, was going to shoot Oswald, expecting the police to take credit for it. The plan went sour when all of the cops in Dealy Plaza froze and not one of them drew fired at the obvious snipers nest.

I doubt most of the story, BUT. Saul claimed to be firing sabot rounds in from a 30-06, using bullets that had originally been fired from Oswalds Mannlicher. AND, during a re-roof of the courts building in the late 70's, a spent 30-06 case was found up under the flashing of the flat roof. If apparently, exhibited signs of having fired a sabot.

Another, One more thing. The Presidential limo had a hole in it's windshield according to medical personel who saw it at the hospital. If that was true, the single sniper theory would be put to rest. But, the FBI and Secret Service had the limo striped and the windshield removed by Nov. 25, 1963.

The Feds removed Ted Kazinski's cabin, in its entirety, from the woods to preserve the evidence, yet they destroyed the JFK limo evidence. Makes you wonder. Don't it?

cheers,
enigma
 
JFK Hit Theories

You can make a case for the Mafia theory and the Cuba theory. I recall that Mr. Kennedy and Sam Giancana both knew Judith Campbell (?) quite well; could've that had something to do with it? :) Probably not. The Bobby Kennedy connection was more likely. Didn't he have something to do with flipping Joe Valachi?

The Cuba theory works. Fidel Castro would have a vendetta because of Bay of Pigs. And, you had Lee Harvey Oswald parading around in his "Fair Play for Cuba" garb. I don't recall the exact tie-in with Clay Shaw and Cuba.

For that matter, organized crime straddles both, because it owned a great deal of Havana before the 1959 revolution.

Finally, I recall that all government Kennedy assasination documentation has been classified. It will be declassified after fifty years or at the dealth of the last immediate Kennedy descendant, whichever is later, or something like that. Sure wish I could be around for that.
 
Re: JFK Hit Theories

bobbysamd said:
And, you had Lee Harvey Oswald parading around in his "Fair Play for Cuba" garb. I don't recall the exact tie-in with Clay Shaw and Cuba.
Oswald (at the time) worked as a gopher for Guy Bannister, a MSY private investigator. Bannister was running a free-Cuba militant group out of his office. Allegedly, Clay Shaw was funneling money to Bannister.

Oswald got the job there thanks to David Ferrie, the former Eastern guy I mentioned before, and another employee of Bannister's. Lee had been a cadet in Ferrie's Civil Air Patrol squadron, and Ferrie liked the kid, helped him find jobs, etc.
 
Oswald the Capper

Typhoon1244 said:
Oswald (at the time) worked as a gopher for Guy Bannister, a MSY private investigator. Bannister was running a free-Cuba militant group out of his office. Allegedly, Clay Shaw was funneling money to Bannister.

Oswald got the job there thanks to David Ferrie, the former Eastern guy I mentioned before, and another employee of Bannister's. Lee had been a cadet in Ferrie's Civil Air Patrol squadron, and Ferrie liked the kid, helped him find jobs, etc.
Thanks, man. Now I remember it all.

As a former CAP member and having worked with cadets, I find that Oswald's association with the organization, not to mention Ferrie's, makes for a dark moment in the organization's rich history. :(
 
I still have a hard time believing that the "mob" could get away with this without the blessings of the inner circle of government. There is no way the mob is bigger than the US government and all the guberment do is stand by and watch. If it were the "mob" the government would have made it public and not try to cover it up.
The Castro theory would be somewhat believable in that at the time we wouldn't go after Castro in that may have started WWIII.
Again, there are things that happen that defy logic and common sense. Think we all would be sickened if we really knew what was going on behind closed doors. Thank goodness for Ben and J'Lo to keep us distracted on the really important things in life.
 
On the other hand . . . .

The Cuba theory works. Fidel Castro would have a vendetta because of Bay of Pigs. And, you had Lee Harvey Oswald parading around in his "Fair Play for Cuba" garb.
Anyone see the Peter Jennings special on ABC on Thursday night? Castro stated that it would have been folly for him to kill Mr. Kennedy as vendetta payback.

Good documentary, though.

I remember that I was in the seventh grade when Mr. Kennedy was shot. It was during lunch hour when some kid came out and said, "the President has been shot." I did not believe it. Then, I came home from school to see the TV on and Air Force One arriving from Dallas.

Where were you?
 
Re: On the other hand . . . .

bobbysamd said:


Good documentary, though.


Bobby, Bobby, Bobby,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Please. Good documentary??????????????????????????

I always thought that a documentary contained documents. The Jennings piece was a typical, major media, piece of disinformation that documented NOTHING. It showed a cartoon that supposedly "proved" that the shots came from the book depository, and then went into showing that Oswald was a nut. Jennings stated that the cartoon was of type that would be admisable in a modern court because of the technology that made it. I say, "garbage in, garbage out". Here's why, the cartoon was based upon the Zapruder film, but we don 't know which version (of Zapruder) it was based on. Yes the film has a interesting history, and according to Robert Groden, the House Assasinations Committee's photo expert, it has been altered. As an aside, I wrote earlier that most everything we see about the whole topic is disinformation and I seriously believe that. Back to Zapruder, Abraham Zapruder gave the undeveloped film to the FBI almost immediately. The FBI drafted a local developing firm into an overnight development and allowed a select few to view the movie the next morning. One of those six happened to be Dan Rather of CBS news who was a New Orleans based regional CBS reporter at the time. Interestingly enough, even after seeing the original film, withing 18 hours of the event, Rather still reported an account contrary to what the film seems to show.

(I'm going off of twenty year memorys here on some details here, and I don't really have the time to re-research this issue, but I belive that most of this info was written by either, Harrison Livingston in a book named High Treason, or a book written by David Lifton named Best Evidence.)

The film was not publicly shown for about twenty years and then only pirated copies were shown. These copies apparently came from Robert Groden, like most other details of this case, the details are fuzzy. In a book he co-wrote, Groden claimed that the original was clear, but it would never be published. In his own book, written later, Groden implies that the frames he was publishing were the "clear" frames. They still look fuzzy to me.

Back to the specific topic, the film, as shown on television as of late, has serious flaws. One of which is that it no longer shows that the limo stopped. The Warren commission published the film frame by frame, but apparently published the frames out of order, so that a sequential viewing would show a forward head movement at the fatal shot (As reported by Rather). The moving picture version shows a rearward movement. The bottom line on Zapruder is that it is interesting, but until we see the original, undoctored, un-enhanced version, we won't know what it showed.

So, I say, gargabe in, garbage out. The Jennings cartoon was cool, but it is not based upon a known. Period. I also suspect, that the techinque used is considered valid, but only if based upon known bullet tracks. JFK's autopsy did NOT establish bullet tracks, that is a matter of record from everyone involved, therefore we and everone else, including the cartoon maker, is forced to speculate and infer.

If anyone has made it to here, I've got a new tidbit to pique your interest.

On KLIF570 this morning, the auto industry expert and news/talk show host Ed Wallace who is also a historian, reported that all of the eye witnesses to the murder of DPD officer JD Tippet stated that the murderer entered the library branch just down the street. When investigation officers reached the library, they were denied entry by men showing Secret Service badges. People, this is a matter of record. The Dallas Police report of the murder of officer Tippet contains this bit of info. The DPD responded to the officer down call at full speed, yet somehow, the SS beat them to the scene???? I think not. DPD investigator James Leavell, in charge of the Tippet investigation, when asked about the report of SS in the library, only said, "in 1963, everyone in the DPD knew what a legit FBI badge looked like". There's an answer in that statement. Ed Wallace concluded his history piece with this, "the murder of officer Tippet is still unsolved, when we prove who murdered Tippet, we will find JFK's killers". I tend to agree.



I remember that I was in the seventh grade when Mr. Kennedy was shot. It was during lunch hour when some kid came out and said, "the President has been shot." I did not believe it. Then, I came home from school to see the TV on and Air Force One arriving from Dallas.

Where were you?

I was 18 months old and living twenty miles north of Dealy Plaza on I35. My father worked in a building just south of Parkland hospital and watched the motorcade enter the hospital area.

regards,
enigma
 
Jennings doc

You raise some points, Enigma, but the program held my interest. I felt that it addressed the major angles, such as Oswald acting alone, or not, and possible conspiracies.

Without a doubt, there are major inconsistencies about the assasination that may never be addressed. I still remember the live coverage in which Oswald stated that he didn't kill anyone. And, again, while I don't know anything about firearms, expert opinions about the near impossibility of firing the rounds from the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle in the time stated are hard to ignore. It is also hard to believe that given his associations and background that Jack Ruby did not act on his own volition when he killed Oswald.

I think it was on NPR this morning when it was repeated that given the magnitude of the act that people still find it hard to believe that a pipsqueak like Oswald could have acted alone. Moreover, the Warren Report came out in less than a year after the assasination. If you consider that it took time to draft the report and put it in final form, the investigation had to have taken much less than a year. That could raise questions as to its credibility.

But, who knows??? Most of the major figures are dead now. It may never be known. People want closure on the assasination, but it may never come.
 
Last edited:
and another thing

Another item/fact brought to light bt the House Assasinations Committee in the late 70's was that Oswald had a CIA 401 file. A 401 file is an operatives file. The file was empty when the committee received it.

I'm still not sure that a conspiracy was in place to commit the crime, but a media/government conspiracy certainly has been in place the last 40 years to convince the American people that Oswald was a "lone nut" assassin. How many know that J. Edgar Hoover was in the metroplex the night before the assassination?

regards,
enigma
 
J. Edgar Hoover

enigma said:
How many know that J. Edgar Hoover was in the metroplex the night before the assassination?
Not to mention that Hoover had dirt on every President and always threatened to blackmail them with it if he didn't have his way.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top