Considering CAPT? BE WARNED!

[Flying Ninja]

For those of you with zero time (or very little time) who are thinking about CAPT as your flight training solution, think again. Unless you're going into their program with time, don't be fooled when you read any materials or press releases regarding the following (explanation to follow):

American Eagle Airlines agrees to guarantee interviews to pilots completing the Commercial Airline Pilot Training Program who meet the following requirements and American Eagle Airlines is interviewing pilot candidates:

* Successfully complete the Commercial Airline Pilot Training Program with a letter of recommendation from the CAPT Program Vice President
* Attain a minimum of the following FAA Certificates and Ratings:
- FAA First Class Medical Certificate with No Waivers
- Commercial Certificate
- Instrument and Multi-Engine Ratings
- MD-90 Type rating through the Commercial Airline Pilot Training Program
* 400 Hours total flight time (may Include 25 hours of MD-90 Level D simulator time)
* 100 Hours multi-engine time (may Include 25 hours of MD-90 Level D simulator time)

BE WARNED if you are entering their VERY EXPENSIVE ab initio program. By my personal experience and those of others, CAPT is known to play favoritism. So unless you are successful in kissing their ass, and not piss off anyone along the 12-14 month training duration, don't expect to get that letter of recommendation. The 400 hour total time requirement won't even play into those entering CAPT under the AB INITIO program. You simply won't get 400 hours total time from CAPT. Unless they have changed their ab initio program, to my knowledge, all you will be walking away from that program at the end is 225 hours of LOGGABLE total time and less than 100 hours of multi-engine time (a source tells me that this is in the neighborhood of 65 hours or less). This being said, you can forget about American Eagle as an option out of their ab initio program. So let's do the math:

TOTAL TIME:
225 hours of total time
+ 25 hours of MD-90 Credit
______________________________________
250 hours
-> You are short 150 hours to meet American Eagle's Requirement
-> Average cost for 140 hours at $110/hour rental = $15,400

MULTI-ENGINE TIME:
65 hours of multi-engine time
+ 25 hours of MD-90 Credit
_______________________________________
90 hours
-> You are short 10 hours to meet American Eagle's Requirement
-> Average cost for 10 hours at $180/hour rental = $1,800

Time Building Cost: $17,200
CAPT Ab Initio: $85,000 - $100,000

Basically, you're looking at shelling out $102,200 to $117,200 to get into American Eagle from zero time at CAPT. And this does not include the cost of housing and living expenses, bills, etc.

Be VERY CAREFUL about exactly what you will walk away with from their programs. And have it in your contract exactly what you will get, as well as a statement that they can not change their deliverables to you during your entire time there. While the development of CAPT-American Eagle is a good one, it is by no means an agreement that applies to anyone that enters the CAPT program. Make no mistakes about this. Do not be played by their marketing department and their expert pillow talk to get you in the sack with them. Also do not let them tell you how American Eagle is in desperate need for pilots and that this is a great opportunity for you. By the time your 12-14 months are completed with CAPT, the hiring party at American Eagle will most likely be over.

If you are considering CAPT, you must ask yourself a simple question: How much certification and ratings and flight time can I get with $85,000 to $100,000 (the proposed new price for the ab initio program) elsewhere? You do not need to train in a very expensive Cirrus to get your certifications and ratings. Many people have done it in far less expensive airplanes. Remember, CAPT is in the business of making money. And that's their goal. Throwing new Cirrus SR20's will definitely capture those who only see the pretty airplane. Don't be fooled or charmed by these pretty planes and a type rating that you can't use in this country. Do yourself a favor and research your options before committing to CAPT. Do you want to spend your hard earned (or borrowed at sick interest rates) money getting what you need (and more) elsewhere or would like like to play with pretty airplanes? Because at the end of the day, you'll get your certifications and ratings...it's a question of if you want to pay a lot for it or a lot less for it. And don't forget to ask how many people they have left in the ditches...those who have paid for a dream that CAPT failed to deliver as promised.

 

[Goose Egg]

Who would really want to go to Eagle anyway? I mean, good company, but 5-7 years to upgrade? No thanks.

-Goose

 

[The_Russian]

Graduated CAPT 10/2005 - Summa Cum Laude, Highest Time (459TT/101ME) of any graduate! No Job, Big Debt!
Tip: Stay away from CAPT!

Ninja,

I still stand by my original words to you. If you really wanted to be flying, you would be. It isn't about money, 141, 61, or PFT. It's about the love of the sky and the job.

 

[Flying Ninja]

And you would continue to be wrong sir, because I can't make the financials work out to be able to get into the regionals!

With my monthly expenses projected to be the following:

CAPT Loan: $980
College Loan: $110
Rent/Crashpad: $300
Food: $150
Cell Phone: $50
Car Insurance: $120
Gas: $100
Misc: $100
TOTAL: $1910/Month

This is what I'll be short each month based on reserve guarantee take home (gross - federal single filing; state, FICA, etc. NOT deducted):

Pinnacle:
($557.00) - 1st Year
($323.68) - 2nd Year

ASA:
($667.29) - 1st year

American Eagle (Turboprop):
($412.29) - 1st Year
($284.79) - 2nd Year
($93.54) - 3rd Year

American Eagle (Turbojet):
($348.54) - 1st Year

ExpressJet:
($476.04) - 1st Year

Air Wisconsin (CRJ):
($348) - 1st Year

PSA:
($539.79) - 1st Year
($157.29) - 2nd Year
($29.79) - 3rd Year

SkyWest (CRJ):
($667.29) - 1st Year

SkyWest (EMB):
($667.29) - 1st Year
($157.29) - 2nd Year
($93.54) - 3rd Year
($29.79) - 4th Year

These are MONTHLY shortage in funds just to break even! Of course this does not consider per diem and state/local/FICA which I'm going to assume will be a wash. I don't even know if these regionals will require employee contribution to health insurance so the monthly picture could be worse than what I outlined.

So, Russian, tell me again how if I wanted this I could get into it today? Are you going to supplement my monthly deficit? Please...don't insult me.

I'd appreciate it if you stick to the spirit of the thread, which is to warn prospective students looking at the CAPT program that they are not to be trusted or event entertained, far less sign up with.

 

[Clark W.]

Ninja,

I still stand by my original words to you. If you really wanted to be flying, you would be. It isn't about money, 141, 61, or PFT. It's about the love of the sky and the job.

Coming from a communist who shelled out THOUSANDS for his job. Way to go! You are the reason the industry is the way it is.

 

[fromunda]

The Russian is actually a she.

Also, if you read back through her posts you can see that she used to be a CFI. After building her time instructing nobody would give her a job. I guess at that point she felt compelled to pay for one.

She says it isn't about money, huh? What do you call that check will all those zeros on it that you so eagerly handed to GIA so they would let you play pilot?

What a disgrace.

 

[deadstick]

We are all paying for a job. Whether we're training in the military (payment in the form of blood, sweat, and tears) or in the "Zero-to-Hero" program de jour of the many pilot factories, we are all paying. And we keep paying. We take low-paying jobs, accepting sub-standard work conditions (mx/DO pressure, etc.), find part-time work -- all this just to have a flying job.

My wife is amazed at the people in aviation. We all shoulder a great deal of risk and debt for the chance of a high-paying job. I can't imagine many bookies would take those odds. "How do you make a small fortune in aviation...." It's true.

You think airplane training is bad, look at the civilian helo training costs. Unions have just started coming in over the last few years. Double your training cost and reduce the top-end potential earning by 50% or so. But we never want to leave aviation. To make the good wages, you are on the raod for months at a time. There aren't 3-day trips with 5 at home. QOL sux.

I'm just greatful my wife has a real job, and I get to stay in Neverland.

 

[Clark W.]

The Russian is actually a she.

Also, if you read back through her posts you can see that she used to be a CFI. After building her time instructing nobody would give her a job. I guess at that point she felt compelled to pay for one.

She says it isn't about money, huh? What do you call that check will all those zeros on it that you so eagerly handed to GIA so they would let you play pilot?

What a disgrace.

Oh, well then just another Broad who thinks she knows it all.

 

[coltsfn8888]

Ninja,

I first off agree with you that capt sucks. But if I am reading this correctly you stopped flying even though you really enjoyed it. I would think that you could get your Capt loan in deferment for a while until your funds increase. You may also be able to get your monthly expenses on credit cards to help defer costs until your a second year fo. In a worse case scenario I think you'd be able to fly freight, instruct, traffic watch or some other flying job which allows you to get a second job. Or work two jobs for a few months and save up some money then get back into it. I know it would be very tough for you but i'd hate to see someone give up with so much invested. Good luck

 

[Flying Ninja]

Hi Coltsfn8888,

Thanks for the support. The last thing I'm giong to do is get raped by putting living expenses on credit cards for a couple of years. Not to disrespect your suggestions but that to me is the equivalent of kicking the chair from underneath me with my neck in the noose. I really don't know what I'm going to be doing with this aviation thing. On a good day for me, I read a few pages here and there in my CFI material. On a bad day, I want to throw my log book into the ocean. I think I'm too fracked up in the head from the CAPT experience to be a competent pilot. CAPT has seriously left a nasty taste in my mouth about aviation as a whole. I thought aviation was full of wonderful professional people. But then I found CAPT, and I discovered that a$$holes are everywhere. Plus, I'm so far out of currency/recency I doubt any company would pick me up. Broken wings man...

 

[Swass]

Who in the world would pay 90k for ratings? Are there people out there that are really that stupid? Tell me you are kidding.

 

[The_Russian]

We are all paying for a job. Whether we're training in the military (payment in the form of blood, sweat, and tears) or in the "Zero-to-Hero" program de jour of the many pilot factories, we are all paying. And we keep paying. We take low-paying jobs, accepting sub-standard work conditions (mx/DO pressure, etc.), find part-time work -- all this just to have a flying job.

My wife is amazed at the people in aviation. We all shoulder a great deal of risk and debt for the chance of a high-paying job. I can't imagine many bookies would take those odds. "How do you make a small fortune in aviation...." It's true.

You think airplane training is bad, look at the civilian helo training costs. Unions have just started coming in over the last few years. Double your training cost and reduce the top-end potential earning by 50% or so. But we never want to leave aviation. To make the good wages, you are on the raod for months at a time. There aren't 3-day trips with 5 at home. QOL sux.

I'm just greatful my wife has a real job, and I get to stay in Neverland.

Well said. I completely agree.

Coming from a communist who shelled out THOUSANDS for his job. Way to go! You are the reason the industry is the way it is.

I didn't shell out anything for my job. I was hired on my own merits. I did pay for a training program in a Be-1900D.

She says it isn't about money, huh? What do you call that check will all those zeros on it that you so eagerly handed to GIA so they would let you play pilot?

What a disgrace.

It isn't about money. You could die tomorrow from a car wreck or next year from cancer. I wanted to up my resume after 9/11. It worked out good for me. My resume is ready for the Legacy's. Especially since I just passed my second type rating and have over 2000 turbine PIC at the age of 25. You my friend are a disgrace. You judge others and bash fellow pilots.

Oh, well then just another Broad who thinks she knows it all.

I do know a lot. But, I do not pretend to know it all. I love to teach, and that drives me to expand the minds of other pilots.

Good luck to all of you.

 

[Flying Ninja]

Swass,

There are people out there that have rich parents that will pay whatever you bill them for flight training. The way to hit these people is to ask them if they want flight training with that $90k or flight training plus a nice car.

To some, money is simply not an issue.

 

[The_Russian]

And you would continue to be wrong sir, because I can't make the financials work out to be able to get into the regionals!

With my monthly expenses projected to be the following:

CAPT Loan: $980
College Loan: $110
Rent/Crashpad: $300
Food: $150
Cell Phone: $50
Car Insurance: $120
Gas: $100
Misc: $100
TOTAL: $1910/Month

This is what I'll be short each month based on reserve guarantee take home (gross - federal single filing; state, FICA, etc. NOT deducted):

Pinnacle:
($557.00) - 1st Year
($323.68) - 2nd Year

ASA:
($667.29) - 1st year

American Eagle (Turboprop):
($412.29) - 1st Year
($284.79) - 2nd Year
($93.54) - 3rd Year

American Eagle (Turbojet):
($348.54) - 1st Year

ExpressJet:
($476.04) - 1st Year

Air Wisconsin (CRJ):
($348) - 1st Year

PSA:
($539.79) - 1st Year
($157.29) - 2nd Year
($29.79) - 3rd Year

SkyWest (CRJ):
($667.29) - 1st Year

SkyWest (EMB):
($667.29) - 1st Year
($157.29) - 2nd Year
($93.54) - 3rd Year
($29.79) - 4th Year

These are MONTHLY shortage in funds just to break even! Of course this does not consider per diem and state/local/FICA which I'm going to assume will be a wash. I don't even know if these regionals will require employee contribution to health insurance so the monthly picture could be worse than what I outlined.

So, Russian, tell me again how if I wanted this I could get into it today? Are you going to supplement my monthly deficit? Please...don't insult me.

I'd appreciate it if you stick to the spirit of the thread, which is to warn prospective students looking at the CAPT program that they are not to be trusted or event entertained, far less sign up with.

First off, I NEVER insulted you. You have insulted yourself for not trying. Many pilots at my airline have a second job. They wanted to be a pilot, and they are paying their dues to pay off their loans and eat food. If you really loved it you would do whatever it takes.

You can warn people all you want about the CAPT program. However, preaching to this board is a waste of time. We all know the downfalls of aviation when it comes to training programs vs. cash.

 

[Flying Ninja]

First of all, must you quote my entire message and clutter the thread? Second of all, don't be making generalizations about how if I really want it, I can make it happen. As someone who "loves to teach" maybe you should take a few lessons on reality. Don't go thinking you got a solution to my problems until you walked in my shoes. For a chick, I'm very surprised at your approach to my situation. I'd think you'd be more rational about it. But whatever.

As for the CAPT deal, I'll keep my own counsel about why I warn people about it. And you'd be wrong again for believing that everyone knows the downfalls of aviation. Again, take a few more lessons.

 

[The_Russian]

First of all, must you quote my entire message and clutter the thread? Second of all, don't be making generalizations about how if I really want it, I can make it happen. As someone who "loves to teach" maybe you should take a few lessons on reality. Don't go thinking you got a solution to my problems until you walked in my shoes. For a chick, I'm very surprised at your approach to my situation. I'd think you'd be more rational about it. But whatever.

As for the CAPT deal, I'll keep my own counsel about why I warn people about it. And you'd be wrong again for believing that everyone knows the downfalls of aviation. Again, take a few more lessons.

The fact that you are getting pi$$ed at me boggles my mind. You aren't even listening to what I have to say. You just put a brick wall up and say, "I can't do it!". I am not at all making generalizations about you or your situation. You have told me your situation and I am telling you what you can do to get your aviation career started.

As a regional FO, you will have 11-16 days off a month to work another job. If you wait tables or bartend, you can make up to 200 dollars a day in most places. This will allow you to pay your bills. You can also pick up extra flight time at you airline. This will get you more pay and a faster upgrade. Some companies will allow you to work in other departments on you days off. There again, is extra cash.

You can call you loan company and change your payment. Or, you can not pay them at all. To the creditor: F$%@ them. Get your job and pay them later. Your credit will suck for a few years, but who cares. If you dont want to pay them, just enroll part time in community college. It will cost less than paying them, and you don't even have to go to class. Fail every one if you want. If you are enrolled in a school, by law, you do not have to pay. This will not hurt your credit at all.

The shortages you post are too small to make an excuse for. It sounds to me as if you are doing this to yourself just to prove a point. Your point is "CAPT SUX". While we all know that, you seem to be the most affected by it. You can choose not to be. Get off your butt and get a job!

Just trying to help,

Russian

 

[Flying Ninja]

Who's getting pi$$ed? I'm just being very matter of fact. So, let's go over your strategy here. No regional that I know of will hire me with the amount of total time I have on the books. So everything else I'm about to say is pretty pointless, but I got time...

11-16 days off...are you including days that I sit on reserve and not get a call from scheduling? And what job is going to just let me walk off the premise because the bat phone rang?

What company will let me work in other departments? Doing what? How much does that pay? How many hours can I expect monthly?

Tell my creditor to kiss off isn't my style. And the last thing I want to do is to add more interest on my alraedy astronomical debt. Did you even look at what my monthly loan payment is? The going back to school to fail classes is a great idea I must say. Can I take just one class at 3 credits or do I have to be a full time student to take advantage of that? If I have to go full time, that means I'll be paying the college instead of the creditors. Sounds like I rather just pay the creditors to me.

I don't need standard textbook responses to my situation. I need real world applicable solutions that won't sink me further into the quicksand I'm in. For your information, I do have a job...back with the industry that hasn't fracked me...so that I can deposit my pay checks to my creditors. I can't do that on a regional FO pay. Sorry Charlie, or Betty, or whatever you want to be called.

I think your best intentions would be to mail me a lotto ticket for the next drawing. That at least would suggest a sincere desire to help. Everything else is just ineffective suggestions in my situation.

Thanks for your help.

 

[crazyaviatrix]

Ok so do you have your instructor ratings or not?? If not then your a dumbass for spending that much and not having them. If you do have them then get off your ass and instruct like the rest of us bending over and grabing our ankles for the job we want. But seriously why did you go to Riddle and consider spend 100k on flight training if you couldn't afford it. Didn't you have an idea what your loan payment would be before you dug yourself a hole??

 

[Flying Ninja]

I don't have my CFI and didn't get that from CAPT. And I figured out the financials before I went to CAPT and determined that if they delivered me to the airlines and I got hired I'd be able to make monthly payments. However, because of their mismanagement, my training lasted 5 months longer than expected, and that translated to a lot more cost of living which resulted in my financial hole. The fact that they said to me that they have 7-9 airline interviews that were guaranteed, I figured 1 airline out of 7-9 would hire me. After all, CAPT did put me through their screening process that they developed which they said was equivalent to what I'll be seeing at the airlines...so if I can pass theirs... Or so they said...

Even if 0 airlines hired me out of those 7-9, at least 7-9 airlines all agree that I suck. But, I never had that opportunity. Why? Because CAPT had ZERO guaranteed interviews. So to answer your question, I didn't think it was going to end up to be $100k after it was all said and done. And before I got into my multi-engine phase, I had to decide if I wanted to finish what I started (which means take more money out) or quit (and go home with nothing). Well, I decided to finish what I started but looking back, quitting probably would have been easier on the wallet because both decisions would have landed me exactly where I am today (career wise).

Bottom line, if they can do me dirty, anyone thinking about going to CAPT should keep in mind that they are fully capable of doing you dirty. Believe me, I'm not the only victim of CAPT...I may be the loudest voice in the victims pool, but I'm not alone.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

TO ALL:

Flying Ninja = Sour Grapes. Plain and simple. Just read this individuals posts on this board and others. He spews the same stuff over and over. YES - You got GANKED. We all know. Since you first began spreading this drivel, you have been offered countless plausible solutions to you plight, yet all you do is say it can't work and you're screwed. We should all feel so bad for you. Guess what, most people in this world really don't care. In my opinion, you're someone who thought he'd leapfrog everyone with some flashy program and ended up getting ganked. If you really wanted to fly, you could. There are just too many feasible options that would allow you to do so, yet you just complain complain complain. You ae unwilling to pursue any oppourtunities and rather remain bitter. I don't think you really want it bad enough anyways.

Personally, with your attitude which I recognize from these boards, it is best you remain outside of the flightdeck. Your attitude is poor, disgruntled and seemingly closed-minded.