Consider Taking Off The Rose-Colored SWA Glasses For a Moment and Discuss...

[3ds]

Hey, man... ease up. Just his opinion.

Whatever floats your stroke.

clever!

 

[jonjuan]

It's different strokes

Whatchu talkin' about Willis???

 

[waveflyer]

Dude, the average block hours per month at SWA is about 65 hours.
jj

I had always been quoted that swa pilots averaged over 70. 65 sounds more like legacy schedules.

when block hours arent' flown- that means more hiring sure-- but it also means an extra set of payroll and benefits and training costs associated. I've always thought part of the job-security at swa was that pilots were very much into timing out... IE: "when our pilots are making money, we're making money"

Have the pilots got less into productivity recently?

 

[737tanker]

Have the pilots got less into productivity recently?

It depends on the individual. We have some guys pushing the 1000 hr limit while others just fly their line. In my case on months with no training or vacation I pick up some and fly about 80 hours. On vacation months I don't pick up and fly about 50 hours. I quit doing reserve in 2002 so my monthly average since then has been 64 hours.

 

[XR650R]

All true..employee goodwill, hedges, efficient system, etc.. We have now positioned our selves where hedges will allow us to win this war of attrition. The unstated goal is to out last at least two majors. Once these two majors fail and finally go away, the market will finally support a rational pricing structure consistently- even if oil continues to climb... to a point.
The days of anyone charging $69 fares are (hopefully) over. We as an industry will carry 15% or so fewer people. The people who never belonged on an commercial jet in the first place won't be flying any more. I personally am saddened by the prospect of so many brothers and sisters out of a job but not one of you can argue that this is not what needs to be done. As a side, if oil ever reaches $500 in the short term, we ALL will have much bigger fish to fry than worry about our silly little airline careers. I'd probably be on a troop transport headed to you-know-where as a 40 year old draftee about to fight in a holy war to end all wars.

 

[fool737700]

This is actually an argument that goes AGAINST swa in the long run. Other airlines have room to maneuver if they wish to compete more aggressively with swa because they can create incentives to get their workforce to be more productive and approach the productivity levels of SWA. Pilot unions may grumble about losing the glory days but in the end, those that don't wish to fly more will stay home and create more pay opportunities for those that do.Likewise, couldn't 1 aircraft type become a liability? It must be a major scare if the FAA ever grounds the US 737 fleet for some reason. Obviously all airlines would suffer but swa most of all.

How stupid!!! we should get another type of aircraft just in case the FAA grounds the 737!!!

 

[JumpJetter]

I had always been quoted that swa pilots averaged over 70. 65 sounds more like legacy schedules.

Average Monthly Block Hours Per Pilot, Domestic System 2006
(Source, APA Publication "Flight Line", Spring 2008, Page 10)

SWA - 65
AAI - 58.1
NWA - 57.7
JB - 56.9
AA - 53.8
CO - 53.2
DL - 52
US - 45.5
HA - 44.1
UA - 43.4


Don't get me wrong, most probably do fly more than 65 per month. But, when you factor in vacation, military leave, sick, working for time and a half...whatever... the YEARLY average PER MONTH is what you see above. JUST AS I am sure the other carriers listed are flying more than listed above. Bottom line, timing out at a 1000 hours per year is generally not a problem for the pilot group as a whole.

jj

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

LUV fuel hedges through 2012 from their annual report:

• 2008 over 70% at $51 per barrel;
• 2009 55% at $51 per barrel;
• 2010 30% at $63 per barrel;
• 2011 over 15% at $64 per barrel;
• 2012 over 15% at $63 per barrel.

As I read this thread, it’s very evident to me that most of LUV guys just don’t seem to understand how lucky their fuel hedge strategy has worked out for them since 911. LUV has basically been paying ½ price for their fuel the last four years. Contrary to some of the observations here, it’s very risky to continue to count on this strategy to help them in the future. It’s tantamount to thinking you’re going to hit red every time at the roulette table.

Since LUV pretty much sets domestic prices, they prevented the rest of the airlines from correctly pricing the cost of air travel to aid in the recovery from 911 and left the rest of the industry in a very vulnerable position for any run-up in the price of oil which is now the case.

This time around it looks like LUV’s strategy is a scorched earth policy with death to all but them. I got to wonder if the higher ups at LUV really think a re-regulated industry or foreign ownership will be in their long-term best interest because that’s where the industry is headed if the of price of gas doesn’t start coming back down.

The truth is LUV’s fuel hedges have masked their increasing costs over the last five years. Without the fuel hedge advantage the past few years, life would be radically different over there. Though Southwest does continue to possess some productivity advantages, it is nowhere near the major advantage it used to be before 911. Furthermore, many of their productivity advantages either don’t work or are greatly minimized in an international type of operation. Point to point won’t cut it when flying to Europe or South America.

Like I said before on another thread, LUV starts losing their major fuel hedges after this year. By 2010 their cost advantage is basically eliminated since the other airlines do have some cheaper hedges. The question is whether the rest of the industry will collapse into bankruptcy and be re-regulated by then.

It’s hard to comprehend, given their fuel advantage, why the LUV pilots haven’t capitalize on it and sought better pay, retirement, health benefits, etc. that would have helped the rest of the industry. Instead they seem to keep cratering our profession and career with the likes of Age 65 and trying to increase the annual 1000 FAR limit.

AA767AV8TOR

 

[ultrarunner]

...trying to increase the annual 1000 FAR limit.

AA767AV8TOR

They're trying to do that?

Wow...I missed that one.

 

[waveflyer]

Since LUV pretty much sets domestic prices,

well not only was that flame, but redundant too-= all your points, AA767, have already been addressed...a few times...

but you hit on the one thing that makes the hedges work- WN has way more control over pricing than any other carrier. That's what makes the hedges valuable- even if it they didn't make money on them- it allows them to set prices for advance tickets at a profitable rate and manage a volatile cost. With fuel going this crazy-- how can any airline sell an advance ticket and know they'll make a profit w/o hedging?

I'll take the bait though- and ask you what you think SWA should've been doing, if not competing and taking every advantage they've earned?

And don't talk about pay when you're flying around 777's around for what they're flying 73's. They're undercutting ticket prices--- YOU are undercutting the piloting profession. I've never been less proud to be a legacy pilot w/ what guys at all 6 airlines have been willing to fly for.