Confessions of a Union Buster

[fischman]

Fisch, It's none of my business (I'm a 91 guy) but don't you think you are comparing apples to oranges with your NJ and S-west comparison? Totally different business model, revenues, and profits. S-West has hundreds of thousands of customers per year and NJ only several thousand owners/ charters. I wish you guys luck but 200K does not seem realistic.

Take a re-read of the post where I stated what a NJA pilot does, and the approval ratings of the owners. Yes. I think $200,000 is well worth it for the company.

 

[pilotyip]

Take a re-read of the post where I stated what a NJA pilot does, and the approval ratings of the owners. Yes. I think $200,000 is well worth it for the company.

No for what you described, that is way too low, more like $300K maybe $400K for a Capt and $250K-$350Kfor an F/O. Just put a surcharge on the owners, much like fuel surcharge. I mean after all these are rich people and they can afford it. Because of the service you described they would never go any where else, after all no company could possibly do what you described for any lower cost. You could even approach these costs as protection for them. Like if you pay this nothing bad will happen to you or your family.

 

[fischman]

Your sarcasm is not required or desired.

 

[Helmsalee]

Fisch, I'm on your side in this, but SCT has a point. As I heard many times in my 30+ years at 3 majors "It's not what your worth but what you negotiate". This is just as true for an individual interviewing for a single airplane job or an organized pilot group. And, don't forget that supply and demand have a major impact on what you can negotiate.

That said, G4 is so far out to lunch that most of us pay him no mind or have put him on ignore with B19.

Helm

 

[BentOver]

I know I ignore him..... And don't pay much attention to YIP either

 

[fischman]

Fisch, I'm on your side in this, but SCT has a point. As I heard many times in my 30+ years at 3 majors "It's not what your worth but what you negotiate". This is just as true for an individual interviewing for a single airplane job or an organized pilot group. And, don't forget that supply and demand have a major impact on what you can negotiate.

That said, G4 is so far out to lunch that most of us pay him no mind or have put him on ignore with B19.

Helm

The first rule of a successful negotiation is a realistic view of self worth. I feel that is what I'm worth. I feel like I give my company $200,000 worth of effort and work. Don't believe me? Ask the pax I flew with a thrust reverser deployed at FL240 and 300 KIAS. Or ask the pax I flew with a rapid decompression at FL390. Or ask the pax that didn't have a flight, but had a "NetJets experience."

If you think you're worth less, please keep it to yourself.

 

[G4dude]

The first rule of a successful negotiation is a realistic view of self worth. I feel that is what I'm worth. I feel like I give my company $200,000 worth of effort and work. Don't believe me? Ask the pax I flew with a thrust reverser deployed at FL240 and 300 KIAS. Or ask the pax I flew with a rapid decompression at FL390. Or ask the pax that didn't have a flight, but had a "NetJets experience."

If you think you're worth less, please keep it to yourself.

What if our competitors' pilots, who are just as good as we are, are willing to staff their planes at 100000 a year?

 

[G4dude]

Fisch, It's none of my business (I'm a 91 guy) but don't you think you are comparing apples to oranges with your NJ and S-west comparison? Totally different business model, revenues, and profits. S-West has hundreds of thousands of customers per year and NJ only several thousand owners/ charters. I wish you guys luck but 200K does not seem realistic.

200K sounds great to me, and Flight Options, et al, hope like heck NJA pays that much.

 

[G4dude]

No for what you described, that is way too low, more like $300K maybe $400K for a Capt and $250K-$350Kfor an F/O. Just put a surcharge on the owners, much like fuel surcharge. I mean after all these are rich people and they can afford it. Because of the service you described they would never go any where else, after all no company could possibly do what you described for any lower cost. You could even approach these costs as protection for them. Like if you pay this nothing bad will happen to you or your family.

Yip is trying to introduce the union folks to reality, by pointing out that in the Real World, we have to compete with other companies. If our company doesn't compete profitably, we all lose our jobs. Sarcasm was absolutely called for, in my humble opinion.

 

[G4dude]

Fisch, I'm on your side in this, but SCT has a point. As I heard many times in my 30+ years at 3 majors "It's not what your worth but what you negotiate". This is just as true for an individual interviewing for a single airplane job or an organized pilot group. And, don't forget that supply and demand have a major impact on what you can negotiate.

That said, G4 is so far out to lunch that most of us pay him no mind or have put him on ignore with B19.

Helm

Its funny, I have not put anyone on ignore, not even brokeflyer or imacdog. So who desires the "echo chamber?" Thanks Gut, for that wonderful appellation.

 

[CA1900]

Yip is trying to introduce the union folks to reality, by pointing out that in the Real World, we have to compete with other companies.

And despite our higher rates, we did that -- with service. That's a concept Sokol, Hansell, and their yes-men simply cannot grasp.

 

[G4dude]

And despite our higher rates, we did that -- with service. That's a concept Sokol, Hansell, and their yes-men simply cannot grasp.

You are right about Sokol, who would have damaged NJA further if he had stayed. I think the jury is still out on Hansell, the Boy Wonder.

 

[Helmsalee]

Fisch, I think you miss my point. You are worth every dine of what you said. The tricky part is getting it.
Helm

 

[rajflyboy]

You are right about Sokol, who would have damaged NJA further if he had stayed. I think the jury is still out on Hansell, the Boy Wonder.

Do I sense an ounce of reality in this post?

 

[brokeflyer]

Do I sense an ounce of reality in this post?

!!!!!!!

these aren't the droids you're looking for