Compensation and professinalism

[WayBack]

With that kind of pay, what kind of "professionals" were CJC Managers hoping to attract ? This is like buying a Yugo and bitching that it's nothing like a BMW.

Nothing but the finest!

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

YEA Dude! As you are washing you dirty shirts on that bathroom sink at your hotel, just look at the mirror, and with the biggest pride tell yourself that I don't need money because I'm a f'cking professional baby!

Reread what I said and you'll notice that I NEVER said I wash shirts in a hotel bathroom. I washed my shirts in a washing machine butthead. I also ironed my shirts too. The military showed my how to have pride in myself, the uniform I wear and the job I perform.

I now dryclean them due to a nice six figure salary and I don't spend the time to wash them. I will iron them on the road still once out of the dragbag. I still shine my own shoes too. You even own a pair of shoes that deserve a shine?

I can look at myself in the mirror when I head out from home, the hotel room to my plane or that airliner I may take to get to another plane and know I look like a professional aviator and perform as such too. Do you fit the bill as well?

Based on your response it leads me to believe you are one of the guys who doesn't care what the paying public thinks of how you look. Continue to look like sh*t and you'll be treated as such. You must be one of the slobs in the terminal that give me something to laugh at and snicker. So, if you fit the mold then continue to provide me and other pax a laugh. I'll be easy to spot cause I am one of the clean and pressed looking pilots. If your not then disregard and encourage the slobs we see to clean up their act.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

At the end of the day, the only person whose opinion matters is the person in the mirror. Your attire is a representation of many things; not just the caliber your fashion sense. If you don't want to project a professional appearance, then don't. Just don't claim to be a bonifide professional. That's fair enough. Everyone has an off-day, apparel-wise, but a professional will strive for consistency in every facet of his occupational life. Ensuring that a shirt is pressed or shoes shined is not that big of a deal. Perhaps some pilots come from families/backgrounds which rarely got dressed up for formal occasions and aren't comfortable or experienced at maintaining a polished image. Some just aren't used to keeping a tidy appearance. I've heard some outlandish stories of the attire worn to some interviews. Perhaps these are the typical offenders.

 

[LanceAir]

As an extreme example of the above, one the flight attendants I've worked with donates all of his paycheck to charity. He's independently wealthy and bored, so he does the job essentially for fun. His FA paycheck is a meager sum to begin with, and being that he donates all of it, he makes essentially nothing. Yet, this man is probably one of the most professional and competent FA's at our company. He doesn't need the job in the least, yet his actions would never portray this truth.

Dog chasing tail?

 

[btrthn5n5]

Reread what I said and you'll notice that I NEVER said I wash shirts in a hotel bathroom. I washed my shirts in a washing machine butthead. I also ironed my shirts too. The military showed my how to have pride in myself, the uniform I wear and the job I perform.

I now dryclean them due to a nice six figure salary and I don't spend the time to wash them. I will iron them on the road still once out of the dragbag. I still shine my own shoes too. You even own a pair of shoes that deserve a shine?

I can look at myself in the mirror when I head out from home, the hotel room to my plane or that airliner I may take to get to another plane and know I look like a professional aviator and perform as such too. Do you fit the bill as well?

Based on your response it leads me to believe you are one of the guys who doesn't care what the paying public thinks of how you look. Continue to look like sh*t and you'll be treated as such. You must be one of the slobs in the terminal that give me something to laugh at and snicker. So, if you fit the mold then continue to provide me and other pax a laugh. I'll be easy to spot cause I am one of the clean and pressed looking pilots. If your not then disregard and encourage the slobs we see to clean up their act.

I'm a professional... I look and act like one. But people can't expect me to dress like you... until I have a cushy six figure income.

I pay five dollars for an all day bus pass... I look at the bus driver and I think he is a professional bus driver. He isn't dressed to the nines and I don't expect him to be... I PAID $5!!!

If the flying public wants to question how I look... they can PAY UP!! If you want a suave, shined pilot on top of the fact that he or she won't kill you with lack of skill... PAY UP!!

Don't expect me to pose like I have a nice six figure salary for the "public's" peace of mind. I'll do my job. Safely and effeciently... but don't question how I look because I get paid crap!!

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

I'm a professional... I look and act like one. But people can't expect me to dress like you... until I have a cushy six figure income.

I pay five dollars for an all day bus pass... I look at the bus driver and I think he is a professional bus driver. He isn't dressed to the nines and I don't expect him to be... I PAID $5!!!

If the flying public wants to question how I look... they can PAY UP!! If you want a suave, shined pilot on top of the fact that he or she won't kill you with lack of skill... PAY UP!!

Don't expect me to pose like I have a nice six figure salary for the "public's" peace of mind. I'll do my job. Safely and effeciently... but don't question how I look because I get paid crap!!

You still failed and missed my point slick. I looked sharp when I made only chump-change as a regional FO pilot. It can be done if a person wants to make it happen; it's that simple. Good back and reread my post.
Now for your post in red, above, I won't question how a pilot looks the way they do; I will laugh and snicker with the rest of the pax that comment to me.
You will not convince me that a person can not look sharper when I lived it myself. I view them as lazy and having an excuse when it's possible to do it. Again, if they are making only $16K then they should take advantage of gov't. help and use food stamps with WIC too.
That would be classic to see an airline pilot go shopping for food while in his/her uniform and then pay with food stamps. It would send a message.

 

[flynryan15]

Top level managers at CJC are showing up to reccurrent classes and preaching that "Compensation has NO bearing on professionalism. Walking through the terminal you should see no difference between a Continental pilot and a CJC pilot."

What are my fellow professional pilots opinion on this?

Why didn't you just tell them when Chuck Colgan Jr. dresses like a professional then you will too? When Chucky has a shirt without coffee stains, tie that fits, nose hairs that aren't long and thick enough to make a Hitler Mustache, matching jacket and pants, a shave that doesn't look like it was done by a drunk with a piece of broken glass, and neck hair that doesn't grow up and out of his collar, then you will visit the dry cleaner!

 

[CopilotDoug]

Based on your response it leads me to believe you are one of the guys who doesn't care what the paying public thinks of how you look.

When the flying public shows up to the gate in their PJ's and a garbage bag wrapped in duct tape as a suitcase...does that opinion carry much merit?

 

[ex j-41]

Top level managers at CJC are showing up to reccurrent classes and preaching that "Compensation has NO bearing on professionalism. Walking through the terminal you should see no difference between a Continental pilot and a CJC pilot."

What are my fellow professional pilots opinion on this?

When people can't afford to eat properly it will affect their appearance. When people don't get a good nights rest it will also affect their appearance.
Reminds me of the Toyota Camry commercial. So many people will buy a car because it's like a camry. So why don't they just buy a camry? Same thing here. If you want a professional pilot then pay for one.
You can put lipstick on a pig....

 

[lookin4better]

Keep on wearing hats backwards in uniform, calling each other bro...etc... we need some people to stay in regionals.... its easier for the ones who remain professional to move on.... the rest can stay in the regionals for life..... perception is reality ...cheers!

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Sad that some just don't get it

When the flying public shows up to the gate in their PJ's and a garbage bag wrapped in duct tape as a suitcase...does that opinion carry much merit?

So, because the some pax dress like or look like sh*t then it's OK for the piltos to do so? That is what you are saying, correct? I sure hope not. So, same pax is in the bar having a drink then the pilot should also? I know one breaks and FAR and the other does not. But what you're saying is it's OK for a pilot to knowingly break a company SOP.
I said before and now again; some will always not like sh*t when walking around the terminal and a lot will not. Some will not see the correct way to look and act like a professional, which we demand to be called. Those are the same pilots that say they are a professional and should be treated as such. Those are the same that will say they should be paided as such. Those are the same that say they fly for (fill-in mainline name of airline), but in reality fly for a regional but don't say the name becaused they are embrassed they don't fly for a mainline.
Good luck to those that must be seen with these types of unprofessional looking pilots. They may be a good stick, but they will always be perceived as a slob and lacking skill.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Does compensation affect professionalism? I think the answer is yes... Sort of.

Professionalism is a cultural phenomenon. It can not exist in singularity. A precondition of professionalism is that a group must exist to indentify with for the purpose of comparison. Therefore, professionalism could be partially defined as acting in accordance with the rules and ethics of a given group.

We all know (or should know) what the rules and ethics of the pilot profession are. They included making safe decisions (even under duress), maintaining a continuous state of proficiency through constant analysis (self and peer analysis) and study and being well groomed and appropriately mannered when in the public eye. I don't think any serious pilot would disagree with any of these conventions.

Professional organizations are, by and large, self policing. The "group think" realizes the importance of upholding the rules, customs and ethics that have served them well. Peer pressure generally solves problems without management intervention. The human condition is one which drives us to conform to some sort of group identity, so it is natural that folks outside of the borders of acceptable professionalism soon adjust their ways (no matter what they might say on an anonymous internet forum).

So... We as pilots are professionals because of our inherent desire to conform to the standards of the group to which we belong. This would always be true if it were not for one important outside factor: Management.

Management has the power to create the conditions under which professionalism will (or will not) thrive. Airlines are vertical organizations, and the culture of the airline begins at the highest level and trickles down. When leadership is percieved to be good and trustworthy, professionalism thrives. When leadership is percieved to be bad and not trustworthy, apathy and discontent creep into the picture. Of course a lack of adequate compensation can cause unhappiness.

Apathy and discontent cause people to lose focus and to not pay attention to detail. Small tasks that would mark one as a professional become seemingly unimportant. I think that is where we are today.

In short, professionalism is a choice. We as pilots are driven to strive for it. However, since management sets the culture in which that professionalism has to exist, they have to power to also set preconditions under which it may die.

We as pilots make the choice every day whether to be professional or not. Management has the power to make that a difficult choice.

 

[CopilotDoug]

So, because the some pax dress like or look like sh*t then it's OK for the piltos to do so? That is what you are saying, correct? I sure hope not.

I'm saying there are extenuating circumstances where I can't fault the pilot. Certain aspects need to be taken into consideration; pay and schedule being two of them. A first year F/O at a regional with long hair? I can understand that. $10 for a haircut...or 8 cases of Ramen noodles? That's alot of Ramen...
The wrinkly pants/shirt? If skipping ironing gets any extra 20 minutes of sleep, I understand. I try to hold myself to higher standards, but that's not to say my definition of "neat and tidy appearance" is the same as yours. There are certain no brainer situations like an untucked shirt or a days worth of beard stubble.

So, same pax is in the bar having a drink then the pilot should also? I know one breaks and FAR and the other does not. But what you're saying is it's OK for a pilot to knowingly break a company SOP.

Nobody said anything about alcohol.

I said before and now again; some will always not like sh*t when walking around the terminal and a lot will not.

Some will always not...and alot will not? Can you decipher this for us?

Some will not see the correct way to look and act like a professional, which we demand to be called. Those are the same pilots that say they are a professional and should be treated as such. Those are the same that will say they should be paided as such. Those are the same that say they fly for (fill-in mainline name of airline), but in reality fly for a regional but don't say the name becaused they are embrassed they don't fly for a mainline.
Good luck to those that must be seen with these types of unprofessional looking pilots. They may be a good stick, but they will always be perceived as a slob and lacking skill.

I agree...there will always be that contingent which just doesn't get it. In the end, they're only holding themselves back and they will weed themselves out of the process. Bottom line...Why worry about it?

 

[ABITRATOR]

We should all be professional at all time but at the same time, this job is very expensive to maintain and mngmt wants you to behave like you work for Donald Trumph while they pay you less than a McDonald worker.

 

[N311HK]

I'll jump in on this one as well and stir the nest. It's a two way street also. If you're overweight and not in shape, you don't look the part. Would go to a doctor/trainer and take their advice. Getting trashed on overnights as crew. Really? Do you need to drink that much where you have to have 5 drinks on an overnight? Save it for the days off. Finally, if you have a hot FA on a trip, act like its not the first time you've seen a girl. I know we don't have a lot of em, but come on people. No offense, but you can see right through a pressed shirt and nice haircut. Car salesman and corrupt CEOs can pull that off. Just my rant. Happy 4th