Compensation and professinalism

[suupah]

Top level managers at CJC are showing up to reccurrent classes and preaching that "Compensation has NO bearing on professionalism. Walking through the terminal you should see no difference between a Continental pilot and a CJC pilot."

What are my fellow professional pilots opinion on this?

 

[Axel]

IMHO, you should present yourself as a regional pilot and leave the professional appearance to the professionals at mainline.

You are a low-life, underrested, undertrained, undercompensated, inexperienced minor league punk. Look the part.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

If looking like a CO scab is all it takes, well- shouldn't require too much effort.

 

[brokeflyer]

IMHO, you should present yourself as a regional pilot and leave the professional appearance to the professionals at mainline.

You are a low-life, underrested, undertrained, undercompensated, inexperienced minor league punk. Look the part.

lol...that is why Netjets pilots looks the best.....it fits the part.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There is a certain level of comp that a professional needs to be professional.

Got names of the CJC management tools?

 

[rtmcfi]

The title of this thread says it all...........

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Top level managers at CJC are showing up to reccurrent classes and preaching that "Compensation has NO bearing on professionalism. Walking through the terminal you should see no difference between a Continental pilot and a CJC pilot."

What are my fellow professional pilots opinion on this?

Reading that statement leads me to believe that your own management doesn't believe that the average CJC pilot is professional. More important than our opinions, is what are you guys going to do to change your own management's opinions of the CJC pilot?

You guys sound like a kid who has an abusive parent.

 

[crj567]

IMHO, you should present yourself as a regional pilot and leave the professional appearance to the professionals at mainline.
.

-Next time I am at work I will have to get a sweet baseball cap, don that sucker and turn it backwards.

-Seen two MESA guys doing that last week. This is one trend that needs to catch on everywhere!

 

[milky]

The title of this thread says it all...........

I love professinalism [sic] threads...

 

[pdub20s]

-Seen two MESA guys doing that last week. This is one trend that needs to ctach on everywhere!

Im sorry you had to see that. At Mesa we have a lot of pilots who look like complete shyt. A complete embarrassment to the industry,profession, and themselves. I see it ALL THE TIME. I see these sloppy pilots every time is enter the crew room. By no means am I a mgt pilot..But if you want mgt to treat you with respect, you must first have respect for yourself.

No matter how your treated at your airline you should always have respect for yourself and the profession. Take care of yours self because your in the public eye and you represent your profession. Would you continue to go to a doctor who looks like complete shyt??


You want to display your displeasure toward your airline?? Then let it show on your flight kit, the Pickett lines, and in your performance numbers.

 

[labbats]

Cut CJC management pay to $16k a year and see how they dress. Looking professional and well groomed is supposed to reflect wealth and the leisure time to achieve it.

 

[JumpersAway]

Pilots follow money- the higher wages draw the "cream of the crop", while the lower wages draw the "cream of the crap".....................

 

[wms]

You don't get treated like a professional and then act like one. You become a professional, behave like one, and then you're treated like one.

And if you don't think the place you are respects your profession, you either prove them wrong or go somewhere else.

 

[pdub20s]

You don't get treated like a professional and then act like one. You become a professional, behave like one, and then you're treated like one.

And if you don't think the place you are respects your profession, you either prove them wrong or go somewhere else.

Best said

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

It's not hard to wear a correct uniform

The thought that pay reflects in how one wears their uniform is completely absurd. Why?

1- It comes down to self-pride. You wear the uniform properly when in the public eye; it's that simple. No excuses! I was a lowly paid regional guy at one time and still wore the uniform correctly in public. Hat on, shoes shined, shirt pressed/buttoned, tie on correctly, jacket on and neat haircut. Yes, I made under 20K in my first year, wife stay-at-home and had a crash pad payment too. It's not hard to present yourself correctly.

2- How employees conduct themselves within the public's eye is a reflection of management's style and beliefs. Management will either set a high standard, follow and enforce that standard or not. Why is there a difference in airport terminals when a mainline pilot walks by and a regional pilot walks by. Not all regional pilots are slobs, but I have seen a fair amount walking the terminals looking like a high school kid heading to the bus or they just rolled out of bed. i.e. long sleeves rolled up, wrinkled shirt, tie loose and top button open, hair unkept, black sneakers, or hat sitting silly on their head. It's a disgrace to yourself, your crew, company and our profession. I enjoy hearing pax talk about this type of pilot as they walk through the terminal. These pilot(s) think they look cool and everybody is looking in awe. Well, pax are and it's because you look like sh*t and like an idiot as you try to strut through the terminal.

3- It also comes down to the pilot group policing themselves. Your own pilot group needs to take these slackers out behind the maintenance shed a give them a blanket party. Oh wait, can not do that anymore. You can stop them and talk to them. Behind closed doors first, then if you see them again and it's in public; use the public humiliation tactic. Hey, you could always use your Pro Stands Committee route if the first two don't work.

We will always have the 10%ers out here in the business. I ask this question. How would you view a doctor you go to visit if they wore their professional attire like some of our fellow pilots? Would you want them to care for you, your wife and/or kids? Well, I will tell you that your paxs are asking those question cause they ask me while in the back of your aircraft.

 

[suupah]

Reading that statement leads me to believe that your own management doesn't believe that the average CJC pilot is professional. More important than our opinions, is what are you guys going to do to change your own management's opinions of the CJC pilot?

You guys sound like a kid who has an abusive parent.

I do agree that personal pride does play a large role in professional appearance but so do company culture and compensation.

An FO at a regional is going to be hard pressed to afford proper dry cleaning/care for dress garments. He/she will also have a hard time up keeping and purchasing good looking professional luggage/flight case. A proper uniform should be replaced once a year. Three shirts, 2 pants and a blazer, proper shoes and a tie will run you approximately 400 dollars. With the uniform allowance being 200 per year there is a gap.

If management is serious about improving the image then they need to come up with a program that address' culture change, cost and enforcement of professionalism policy. I have a feeling that they will go with greater enforcement alone because it won't cost them anything and morale is not high on the priority list.

As far as being an abusive parent, as they say....Dear Family member,

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

A proper uniform should be replaced once a year.

While I agree with most of your points.... what????

 

[buscap]

Agreed.

A properly taken care of uniform should last for YEARS. And I even get shirts to last for atleast 2.

Even on your taxes??

 

[SpauldingSmails]

I love professinalism [sic] threads...

I'm just impressed there's someone else on this board that knows that sic has a different meaning than "second in command".

Here's to you milky.

 

[Draginass]

Your not a professional unless you're paid like a professional. Otherwise, you're just a hack undercutter.

 

[doh]

When I started at the regionals, they said sleep or iron your shirt. I ironed the shirt. A couple of years in and I said: "Sleep? I never get to sleep!" And the shirt took care of itself. At the frac, the shirt gets pressed and I sleep. You can spin that any way you want, but if one has to go, it ain't never gonna be sleep again!

 

[dude100]

Top level managers at CJC are showing up to reccurrent classes and preaching that "Compensation has NO bearing on professionalism. Walking through the terminal you should see no difference between a Continental pilot and a CJC pilot."

What are my fellow professional pilots opinion on this?

Easy! If you value your job your probably well compensated. Hence, you can afford dry cleaning and a nice vehicle with air conditioning to get to work in. This managment crap about professionalism and compensation is just an excuse not to pay up. The RAS is NOT your friend but only a washington lobby group to keep up with public airline image and pilot rates low.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Your not a professional unless you're paid like a professional. Otherwise, you're just a hack undercutter.

Being professional has NOTHING to do with the size of your salary. It's an attitude reflected in your day to day performance from the moment you wake up until you retire for the day. A true professional would execute their duites to the fullest and most ethical extent. It involves judgment, knowledge, discipline, grooming, ettiquette, tradition, etc. among many other things outside the scope of ones salary.

Perhaps this is why there's such a gross lack of it. No one knows what professionalism really entails.

 

[btrthn5n5]

Being professional has NOTHING to do with the size of your salary. It's an attitude reflected in your day to day performance from the moment you wake up until you retire for the day. A true professional would execute their duites to the fullest and most ethical extent. It involves judgment, knowledge, discipline, grooming, ettiquette, tradition, etc. among many other things outside the scope of ones salary.

Perhaps this is why there's such a gross lack of it. No one knows what professionalism really entails.

True!

Being a professional is independent of salary. Judgment, knowledge, discipline, ettiquette, and proffeciency are all a mark of a professional.

The argument comes in when you say that a professional appearance is independent of salary, it is not. Unfortunately, to look good... dry cleaned shirt, shined shoes, new pants. etc... a tad bit of income is required. So are work rules that allow for you to keep yourself "in a proper way".

If I'm making $16000 a year and only have 9 hours at the hotel while I'm at work, and two days a week when I'm not at work you can bet that my shirt will be wrinkled (I can't iron while I'm sleeping), my hair will be long (the paycheck has to stretch 4 weeks for a cut instead of every 2), and I'm going to buy food instead of shoe shine. It doesn't mean I'm not a professional pilot, and has no indication of my skill in the cockpit, it just shows that don't get paid a fair wage.

 

[WayBack]

-Next time I am at work I will have to get a sweet baseball cap, don that sucker and turn it backwards.

-Seen two MESA guys doing that last week. This is one trend that needs to catch on everywhere!

It seems to be a new tread of SWA pilots as well, but they wear the baseball cap forward. I seem to see this in LAS the most.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Being professional has NOTHING to do with the size of your salary. It's an attitude reflected in your day to day performance from the moment you wake up until you retire for the day. A true professional would execute their duites to the fullest and most ethical extent. It involves judgment, knowledge, discipline, grooming, ettiquette, tradition, etc. among many other things outside the scope of ones salary.

Perhaps this is why there's such a gross lack of it. No one knows what professionalism really entails.

As an extreme example of the above, one the flight attendants I've worked with donates all of his paycheck to charity. He's independently wealthy and bored, so he does the job essentially for fun. His FA paycheck is a meager sum to begin with, and being that he donates all of it, he makes essentially nothing. Yet, this man is probably one of the most professional and competent FA's at our company. He doesn't need the job in the least, yet his actions would never portray this truth.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Been there, done that and it's easy to look professional

True!

Being a professional is independent of salary. Judgment, knowledge, discipline, ettiquette, and proffeciency are all a mark of a professional.

The argument comes in when you say that a professional appearance is independent of salary, it is not. Unfortunately, to look good... dry cleaned shirt, shined shoes, new pants. etc... a tad bit of income is required. So are work rules that allow for you to keep yourself "in a proper way".

If I'm making $16000 a year and only have 9 hours at the hotel while I'm at work, and two days a week when I'm not at work you can bet that my shirt will be wrinkled (I can't iron while I'm sleeping), my hair will be long (the paycheck has to stretch 4 weeks for a cut instead of every 2), and I'm going to buy food instead of shoe shine. It doesn't mean I'm not a professional pilot, and has no indication of my skill in the cockpit, it just shows that don't get paid a fair wage.

You need to find a another job if those conditions exist for ya.

I say bullsh*t since I have been there in those conditions you wrote and one finds a way to look professional. I didn't dry clean my shirts. I washed them and ironed them ALL. Wash and iron the shirts BEFORE the trip while watching TV and they're good. It only takes fives minutes to iron the shirt on the road. A good shine takes only five minutes which can be done before one leaves for work. Haircut for under ten bucks (even in today's world) once a month. Polish costs under $2, so less then a bag of chips. Not taking these steps and having self-pride doesn't mean you or anyone else is less professional in the cockpit, but the perception it presents is that you are. It's about self-pride bro. If someome is making $16K and is still buying food with their own dime then shame on them. They should be hitting their local food bank, WIC and food stamps because they are intitled to that support.

 

[CX880]

You need to find a another job if those conditions exist for ya.

I say bullsh*t since I have been there in those conditions you wrote and one finds a way to look professional. I didn't dry clean my shirts. I washed them and ironed them ALL. Wash and iron the shirts BEFORE the trip while watching TV and they're good. It only takes fives minutes to iron the shirt on the road. A good shine takes only five minutes which can be done before one leaves for work. Haircut for under ten bucks (even in today's world) once a month. Polish costs under $2, so less then a bag of chips. Not taking these steps and having self-pride doesn't mean you or anyone else is less professional in the cockpit, but the perception it presents is that you are. It's about self-pride bro. If someome is making $16K and is still buying food with their own dime then shame on them. They should be hitting their local food bank, WIC and food stamps because they are intitled to that support.

YEA Dude! As you are washing you dirty shirts on that bathroom sink at your hotel, just look at the mirror, and with the biggest pride tell yourself that I don't need money because I'm a f'cking professional baby!

 

[KPTO]

So executive bonuses must be kept in order to continue and attract high caliber managers. I mean how else might one pay for a 2000.00 dollar suit? So when I am told that compensation has nothing to do with being a professional in one's field I wholeheartedly agree. Because as we have seen during this last economic malaise executives have proven themselves ethical and honest.

 

[CopilotDoug]

With that kind of pay, what kind of "professionals" were CJC Managers hoping to attract ? This is like buying a Yugo and bitching that it's nothing like a BMW.