Compensation and professinalism

[QOL_is_great:)]

Sad that some just don't get it

When the flying public shows up to the gate in their PJ's and a garbage bag wrapped in duct tape as a suitcase...does that opinion carry much merit?

So, because the some pax dress like or look like sh*t then it's OK for the piltos to do so? That is what you are saying, correct? I sure hope not. So, same pax is in the bar having a drink then the pilot should also? I know one breaks and FAR and the other does not. But what you're saying is it's OK for a pilot to knowingly break a company SOP.
I said before and now again; some will always not like sh*t when walking around the terminal and a lot will not. Some will not see the correct way to look and act like a professional, which we demand to be called. Those are the same pilots that say they are a professional and should be treated as such. Those are the same that will say they should be paided as such. Those are the same that say they fly for (fill-in mainline name of airline), but in reality fly for a regional but don't say the name becaused they are embrassed they don't fly for a mainline.
Good luck to those that must be seen with these types of unprofessional looking pilots. They may be a good stick, but they will always be perceived as a slob and lacking skill.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Does compensation affect professionalism? I think the answer is yes... Sort of.

Professionalism is a cultural phenomenon. It can not exist in singularity. A precondition of professionalism is that a group must exist to indentify with for the purpose of comparison. Therefore, professionalism could be partially defined as acting in accordance with the rules and ethics of a given group.

We all know (or should know) what the rules and ethics of the pilot profession are. They included making safe decisions (even under duress), maintaining a continuous state of proficiency through constant analysis (self and peer analysis) and study and being well groomed and appropriately mannered when in the public eye. I don't think any serious pilot would disagree with any of these conventions.

Professional organizations are, by and large, self policing. The "group think" realizes the importance of upholding the rules, customs and ethics that have served them well. Peer pressure generally solves problems without management intervention. The human condition is one which drives us to conform to some sort of group identity, so it is natural that folks outside of the borders of acceptable professionalism soon adjust their ways (no matter what they might say on an anonymous internet forum).

So... We as pilots are professionals because of our inherent desire to conform to the standards of the group to which we belong. This would always be true if it were not for one important outside factor: Management.

Management has the power to create the conditions under which professionalism will (or will not) thrive. Airlines are vertical organizations, and the culture of the airline begins at the highest level and trickles down. When leadership is percieved to be good and trustworthy, professionalism thrives. When leadership is percieved to be bad and not trustworthy, apathy and discontent creep into the picture. Of course a lack of adequate compensation can cause unhappiness.

Apathy and discontent cause people to lose focus and to not pay attention to detail. Small tasks that would mark one as a professional become seemingly unimportant. I think that is where we are today.

In short, professionalism is a choice. We as pilots are driven to strive for it. However, since management sets the culture in which that professionalism has to exist, they have to power to also set preconditions under which it may die.

We as pilots make the choice every day whether to be professional or not. Management has the power to make that a difficult choice.

 

[CopilotDoug]

So, because the some pax dress like or look like sh*t then it's OK for the piltos to do so? That is what you are saying, correct? I sure hope not.

I'm saying there are extenuating circumstances where I can't fault the pilot. Certain aspects need to be taken into consideration; pay and schedule being two of them. A first year F/O at a regional with long hair? I can understand that. $10 for a haircut...or 8 cases of Ramen noodles? That's alot of Ramen...
The wrinkly pants/shirt? If skipping ironing gets any extra 20 minutes of sleep, I understand. I try to hold myself to higher standards, but that's not to say my definition of "neat and tidy appearance" is the same as yours. There are certain no brainer situations like an untucked shirt or a days worth of beard stubble.

So, same pax is in the bar having a drink then the pilot should also? I know one breaks and FAR and the other does not. But what you're saying is it's OK for a pilot to knowingly break a company SOP.

Nobody said anything about alcohol.

I said before and now again; some will always not like sh*t when walking around the terminal and a lot will not.

Some will always not...and alot will not? Can you decipher this for us?

Some will not see the correct way to look and act like a professional, which we demand to be called. Those are the same pilots that say they are a professional and should be treated as such. Those are the same that will say they should be paided as such. Those are the same that say they fly for (fill-in mainline name of airline), but in reality fly for a regional but don't say the name becaused they are embrassed they don't fly for a mainline.
Good luck to those that must be seen with these types of unprofessional looking pilots. They may be a good stick, but they will always be perceived as a slob and lacking skill.

I agree...there will always be that contingent which just doesn't get it. In the end, they're only holding themselves back and they will weed themselves out of the process. Bottom line...Why worry about it?

 

[ABITRATOR]

We should all be professional at all time but at the same time, this job is very expensive to maintain and mngmt wants you to behave like you work for Donald Trumph while they pay you less than a McDonald worker.

 

[N311HK]

I'll jump in on this one as well and stir the nest. It's a two way street also. If you're overweight and not in shape, you don't look the part. Would go to a doctor/trainer and take their advice. Getting trashed on overnights as crew. Really? Do you need to drink that much where you have to have 5 drinks on an overnight? Save it for the days off. Finally, if you have a hot FA on a trip, act like its not the first time you've seen a girl. I know we don't have a lot of em, but come on people. No offense, but you can see right through a pressed shirt and nice haircut. Car salesman and corrupt CEOs can pull that off. Just my rant. Happy 4th

 

[CMI]

You can polish a turd all you want; in the end you still have a turd.

 

[Draginass]

Poor appearance by employees is symptomatic of management FAILURE. Failure to lead, failure to manage, failure to set the example, and most of all failure to run the company in a way that employees are proud to be a part of. Instead employees take on the same attitude as managers, i.e. "I'm just here to rake in as much loot as possible, and to heck with everything else."

Management always gets the kind of labor union and employees they deserve.

 

[acaTerry]

I now dryclean them due to a nice six figure salary and I don't spend the time to wash them.

And he got that 6 figure slary by BEING A PROFESSIONAL no matter what job he was doing, and he advanced...take a hint guys.

 

[suupah]

I agree personal pride should drive us all to press our shirts, shine our shoes and keep our hair neatly combed. I also remember being an FO making 580 dollar checks every two weeks trying to figure out how to get by while working another job as a waiter on my days off and allowing myself only three days off a month.

I did manage to shine the shoes and press my shirts but to be honest I never went anywhere near a dry cleaner and I did not replace my uniforms, or get my hair cut nearly as often as I should of. The end result was a pretty shabby set of shirt/pants/shoes. They were pressed and shined but still looked shabby. In this case I do believe compensation (at the time there was no uniform allowance) did have a strong correlation to professional appearance. I lived in one of the cheapest areas of the country and had very cheap rent of 350 dollars a month. even with that, it was tough to get by with other bills. I have since upgraded and now always have a new white shirt and nicely drycleaned and pressed pants, a sharp haircut and shoes less than a year old that are shined. I also keep have a nice rollerboard. I upgraded my appearance when my salary was upgraded.

That being said, I believe that it is clearly not sustainable to live under those conditions for extended periods of time while keeping high morale and a crisp, upbeat, rested and professional appearance for the public.

The other issue at CJC is how unprofessional the corporate culture has always been. You do not need to look very hard to see the complete lack of professionalism in management. Look at the very loose training program, manuals, aircraft appearance, policies, threatening memos and complete disregard for travel and accomodations from day one of training or anytime you tdy.

If management wants professional pilots they need to create that professional culture from the top down. In addition they need to give us a means to provide professional uniforms for ourselves, a salary that allows us to pursue restful activities on our days off to fully recuperate and enforce these policies only after giving us a reasonable way to abide by them. They should put shoe shine materials in crew rooms, care instructions for clothing articles (for those laundry deficient folks) including how to press, iron, and care for uniforms and have random spot checks of uniforms. They also need to clean our planes so that we don't take our nicely laundered and pressed uniforms to a filthy plane with seats that have never been cleaned and will leave you smelling like a dirty gym towel at the end of your shift.

professionalism is a two way street and an attitude that is developed by mentoring. And for many their first airline job is their first professional job, the mentoring must come from their first airline culture.

 

[Tarzan]

Poor appearance by employees is symptomatic of management FAILURE. Failure to lead, failure to manage, failure to set the example, and most of all failure to run the company in a way that employees are proud to be a part of. Instead employees take on the same attitude as managers, i.e. "I'm just here to rake in as much loot as possible, and to heck with everything else."

Management always gets the kind of labor union and employees they deserve.

No, it is not symptomatic of management failure to run a company that an employee can proud of. It is the result of a company not wanting to upset the turds with a requirement to live by the rules. Once they start to do that, the turds run to the union to stop the company from enforcing the policy.

 

[ex j-41]

When i was a kid we had to memorize this quote "Leadership is the art of influencing human behavior in a manner desired by the leader."

Managements job is to motivate their employees to achieve a result. We are a product of their management skills. Don't blame the dog, blame the owner.

 

[acaTerry]

Guys, it has always been this way, and it has been this way at BIG U, DAL, NWA, all of them right down to the tiniest commuter. The difference is that you, the pilots, are in control of your public perception. If you guys struck today, even in wake of the BUF crash, you'd get no support. Why? Because you are seen by the public as backpackin', hair gellin', earbud wearin', cool guys who find performing any type of customer service beyond the dignity of your position as a pilot. Remember the thread about how annoying and stupid the pax are? How cool it was that one guy said "no habla" to the person who asked where their gate was? See guys, you are your own worst enemy. If you made the passengers love you, like the CMR guys did in 2000, you'd get their support like the CMR guys did. And it was the letters to CMR management from passengers, newspaper cartoons, and editiorial letters in papers that led to the strongarm that caused them to get a good contract. But when you act like a bunch of high school kids, what do you expect?
Post after post, you guys make a$$es of yourselves....how much you get laid on the road, how dumb your FO is, how dumb your CA is, why can't I listen to my iPod in the cockpit, I don't like my uniform....geez.
Like it or not, cheap fare or not, if you consider yourselves to be what the pax expect you to be, that is professionals who care about the safety, comfort, and happiness of your pax (even the ones who are pains), it is only then that you will gain any ground. You act like kids, you get treated like kids, and paid like kids. Stop worrying about the cool factor...that doesn't pay the bills.
Yeah, mgt as a rule is lousy, but you can only blame mgt so much. If a commander of troops is an idiot, does that excuse his troops to lose a battle by not even fighting?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Because you are seen by the public as backpackin', hair gellin', earbud wearin', cool guys who find performing any type of customer service beyond the dignity of your position as a pilot.

I have to disagree, Terry. I think the public's perception by and large is that we're still a bunch of overpaid and underworked prima donnas...even down to the lowliest commuter pilot.

 

[suupah]

I kind of take some offense to what has been said here. I never see backpacks, spike bleach tips, and i pods amongst cjc pilots in the terminal. I actually see some of the most friendly and helpful pilots in the terminal at cjc. I can't tell you how many pilots i have seen retrieve bags, push wheel chairs, help old ladies etc etc on a daily basis by none other than cjc pilots.

To be totally honest I have found that the airlines with the best contracts that are the highest paid amongst the regionals seem to have a greater share of cocky and arrogant pilots. I have never encountered a cjc pilot who wasn't friendly as can be.

I only half-kid when i say that Colgan pilots don't act like we're too cool because we are well aware of the fact we are not cool.

What you do see at cjc is crappy shoes, mis match rollerbags, un cut hair. these are all symptomatic of low pay.

 

[acaTerry]

I have to disagree, Terry. I think the public's perception by and large is that we're still a bunch of overpaid and underworked prima donnas...even down to the lowliest commuter pilot.

You half-got what I said Doug...add what you said to the quote from me and you'll have bingo.

 

[taildragerpilot]

With that kind of pay, what kind of "professionals" were CJC Managers hoping to attract ? This is like buying a Yugo and bitching that it's nothing like a BMW.

deleted

 

[JumpersAway]

The philosophy isn't a hard one to grasp. Since pilots chase money, the highest paying airlines attract the "cream of the crop", while the lowest paying attract the "cream of the crap". Based on this argument, I'd have to say that there is, indeed, a strong corrolation between pay and professionalism/tallent.