Compass?

[Terry Hunter]

Compass pilots should be placed on the NWA list now as they are represented by our MEC. With this EMB175s could be flown by NWA pilots and paid accordingly.

Whoa, am I gathering from your post that you want Compass stapled so that NWA pilots can fly the EMB's, rather than trying to benefit the pilot group? That would imply that all CPZ Captains would be relegrated to FO's on mainline A/C....

 

[Superpilot92]

Compass pilots should be placed on the NWA list now as they are represented by our MEC. With this EMB175s could be flown by NWA pilots and paid accordingly.

ABSOLUTELY!!! :beer:

 

[DrewBlows]

Whoa, am I gathering from your post that you want Compass stapled so that NWA pilots can fly the EMB's, rather than trying to benefit the pilot group? That would imply that all CPZ Captains would be relegrated to FO's on mainline A/C....

Uh, I think he was saying Compass pilots would be NWA (Delta) pilots if they were on the same list. A staple would put Compass pilots on the list but they would be the first ones furloughed. It's not a whole lot different than we have now, but we could accrue seniority.

 

[DrewBlows]

Compass's treatment. As a former Mesaba pilot, here is why I think there is a problem with thinking that Compass Pilots are essentially NWA pilots.

Before the influx of pilots coming from bankrupt airlines of late, Compass was MAINLY taking in new hires for a regional airline. These pilots came in with regional pilot type qualifications. The hiring requirements are and were no where near what NWA brings in for interviews. The age and experience levels seen in the NWA new hire classes resemble that of most majors, not seen as the norm at Compass. Nor was it ever expected to.
There is the problem. You can see this thoughout our industry now days in the new batches of pilots. A sense of entitlement. Both airlines have flows. You could argrue till the cows come home their intents, quality and differences. I don't want to see anyone get mistreated but not being stapled on is no where near mistreatment. The bottom line is, that it is a FLOW to NWA. Once you flow, then you are a NWA pilot, not prior. Hence until then, get in line with the rest.

The hiring qualifications at NWA and Compass are exactly the same. Of course, NWA gets more experienced people, but I guarantee that since Compass hired it's first pilot they have the most experienced new hires of any regional airline.

 

[Superpilot92]

Uh, I think he was saying Compass pilots would be NWA (Delta) pilots if they were on the same list. A staple would put Compass pilots on the list but they would be the first ones furloughed. It's not a whole lot different than we have now, but we could accrue seniority.

Exactly, under a "staple" the benefits are way better than keeping it as is for the Compass guys. Under the current deal you can wait 30 months and then maybe flow or if NWA furloughs you get furloughed from Compass or displaced to the right seat at compass rates. At least under the "staple" idea you would have recall rights to NWA/DAL if a furlough was to happen. Otherwise you would only have recall right to Compass. With or without a "staple" compass guys have the same risks but the rewards of getting onto the mainline list now should far outweigh the risks. Not to mention the fact that Scope is going to get further limited under the joint contract. So the current compass will probably be restricted further on growth anyway. Everyone should be emailing their reps in regards to this, I have.

 

[FBN0223]

Whoa, am I gathering from your post that you want Compass stapled so that NWA pilots can fly the EMB's, rather than trying to benefit the pilot group? That would imply that all CPZ Captains would be relegrated to FO's on mainline A/C....

Completely clueless!! Now, run along.

 

[Monster Buck]

Quack.

Don't respond to me and twist my words. "not as experienced as the rest of the industry" You play on vagueness. I said Compass pilots are not as experienced as MAINLINE pilots as a whole. There are always some exceptions but I never said they are not as experieced as other regionals. There are some pilots here on this board trying to play the notion that Compass is the same in almost all respects including hiring stats to NWA....simply not true and a pipe dream. Any notion to the contrary is wrong.

Read all my post in this title. I have NEVER had a higher than thou attitude. I don't come from an upbringing of "MY" property. I have never had anything against any compass pilot. I have something against people who think that if they get hired at one place or another that somehow makes them more qualified than the day before they got hired. IE Entiltlement. I want years of service, hard work, keeping your nose clean...to prevail. If thats you than Giddie Up! Get the job on Merit. NOT....well I got hired at xyz regional airline, so I deserve.... The good thing for you is this is just my opinion and I am hoping for principles to prevail. Which I know happens in this industry as much as huge pay raises. Few and far between.

What does the staple hurt. Everything. It will have no effect on scope. You will never distinguish one 76 from another. Its by seats, so its a dream to think otherwise. If Compass should be stapled than all the regionals should.

Also to MR. BlOWS

If I have to explain the difference between HIRING QAULS and APPLICATION QUALS let me know. If you think for one second that the avg. of the qauls in the new hire classes at NWA over the years and Compass are the same you on another planet. COMPASS is a REGIONAL no different from any other REGIONAL. IT is not the same. Geesh!

 

[Smarta$$]

This would be an excellent time to clean up the RJ mess.

Beg, borrow or steal, but getting all the flying on one sheet would be a huge leg up, no more whipsaw, everyone has a vested interest in the longevity of "the" company.

Exactly. ALL. Not just one small group of EMB's and the New Hires with them.

 

[DashTrash400]

Exactly. ALL. Not just one small group of EMB's and the New Hires with them.

I'm with you 100%, right up to the point where we explain to the crusty old Express I guys that they're giving up their secure job as a super senior CRJ CA to be furlough fodder at NWA. Same goes for Mesaba.

Compass is simply the easiest to integrate with NWA because a staple doesn't represent any additional career risk beyond what CPS pilots currently face (ie any NWA flowdowns=furlough). If you're gonna bring Mesaba and Pinnacle lifers into the fold a staple isn't gonna cut it for them; yet a staple is the only thing that's gonna get support from NW/DL pilots.

"Politics is the art of the possible" - Otto von Bismark

 

[DashTrash400]

PS - if you have any ideas on how to get all redtail regional flying on the NWA list in a manner acceptable to the pilots at XJ, 9E, and CP as well as the NWA guys, I'm all ears. Hell, I'll write the MEC. Bonus points if you can figure out how to do the same thing with DL and the DCI carriers.

 

[DrewBlows]

PS - if you have any ideas on how to get all redtail regional flying on the NWA list in a manner acceptable to the pilots at XJ, 9E, and CP as well as the NWA guys, I'm all ears. Hell, I'll write the MEC. Bonus points if you can figure out how to do the same thing with DL and the DCI carriers.

Cage match.

 

[DrewBlows]

Mr Reading Comprehension,

Here's what I wrote. I've highlighted the important part, since you apparently missed it the first time.

The hiring qualifications at NWA and Compass are exactly the same. Of course, NWA gets more experienced people, but I guarantee that since Compass hired it's first pilot they have the most experienced new hires of any regional airline.

Here's what you wrote. The important part is highlighted in black.

Also to MR. BlOWS

If I have to explain the difference between HIRING QAULS and APPLICATION QUALS let me know. If you think for one second that the avg. of the qauls in the new hire classes at NWA over the years and Compass are the same you on another planet. COMPASS is a REGIONAL no different from any other REGIONAL. IT is not the same. Geesh!

Moving on... It appears that Compass is different from "any other regional." Not because we fly a different mission, or different airplanes, or any other operational reason, but because we are represented by NWA MEC and have a flow agreement where all of our seats belong to NWA in exchange for flow up. It has nothing to do with years of service, hard work, or *gasp* entitlement, it has to do with what was negotiated. That's it.

Career progression in this industry has to do with timing, negotiating, and a host of other factors. "Hard work" is near the bottom of the list. Sorry to break it to you. This is not the "American way," but it is the way of the American airline industry. Has been for a long time and probably will continue to be for a long time.

By now you are probably asking what this has to do with Compass pilots. Everything. Our career progression from here on out will be determined by factors that are out of our hands. Specifically NWA/DAL negotiations and the economy. The fact that I flew 98 hours this month will not factor in when it comes time to furlough, when my number comes I'll be on the street.

So there is no sense in arguing that Compass pilots should or should not get one thing or another. We will get what is negotiated and that will be what is in the best interests of DAL/NWA pilots not Compass pilots. If Compass pilot's interests happen to be aligned with DAL/NWA pilot's interests then good for us.

 

[Smarta$$]

I'm with you 100%, right up to the point where we explain to the crusty old Express I guys that they're giving up their secure job as a super senior CRJ CA to be furlough fodder at NWA. Same goes for Mesaba.

Compass is simply the easiest to integrate with NWA because a staple doesn't represent any additional career risk beyond what CPS pilots currently face (ie any NWA flowdowns=furlough). If you're gonna bring Mesaba and Pinnacle lifers into the fold a staple isn't gonna cut it for them; yet a staple is the only thing that's gonna get support from NW/DL pilots.

"Politics is the art of the possible" - Otto von Bismark

A non-displacement clause would fix all for the current crj captains. They may not hold anything else for 15 years, but they have their base and seat locked regardless.

Eliminates the whip saw and helps raise all salaries for all pilots.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

PS - if you have any ideas on how to get all redtail regional flying on the NWA list in a manner acceptable to the pilots at XJ, 9E, and CP as well as the NWA guys, I'm all ears. Hell, I'll write the MEC. Bonus points if you can figure out how to do the same thing with DL and the DCI carriers.

I say staple them all with DOH... Most senior at the top of the "staple" and so on.

I wonder how big of a workforce that would make the combined carrier? 20,000?

 

[Monster Buck]

Mr Reading Comprehension,

Here's what I wrote. I've highlighted the important part, since you apparently missed it the first time.

Here's what you wrote. The important part is highlighted in black.



Moving on... It appears that Compass is different from "any other regional." Not because we fly a different mission, or different airplanes, or any other operational reason, but because we are represented by NWA MEC and have a flow agreement where all of our seats belong to NWA in exchange for flow up. It has nothing to do with years of service, hard work, or *gasp* entitlement, it has to do with what was negotiated. That's it.

Career progression in this industry has to do with timing, negotiating, and a host of other factors. "Hard work" is near the bottom of the list. Sorry to break it to you. This is not the "American way," but it is the way of the American airline industry. Has been for a long time and probably will continue to be for a long time.



By now you are probably asking what this has to do with Compass pilots. Everything. Our career progression from here on out will be determined by factors that are out of our hands. Specifically NWA/DAL negotiations and the economy. The fact that I flew 98 hours this month will not factor in when it comes time to furlough, when my number comes I'll be on the street.

So there is no sense in arguing that Compass pilots should or should not get one thing or another. We will get what is negotiated and that will be what is in the best interests of DAL/NWA pilots not Compass pilots. If Compass pilot's interests happen to be aligned with DAL/NWA pilot's interests then good for us.

I quess I'll never agree with you. Thanks for the comment though. I don't think you will be on the street. Especially with all that experience and your MEC. You are definately a cut above the rest. Good luck on your next interview.