Communism Gaining Ground?

[Typhoon1244]

The Bible claims to be the inspired word of God.

We've been down this road before. The Koran also claims to be the inspired word of god. How do you tell the difference? They're both equally effective at "moving" certain elements within the population. Does the real one glow in the dark?

Just like I said to Timebuilder, Tony, you're insisting on an extremist point of view:

...since the Bible CLAIMS to be inspired, we are left with but TWO alternatives.

1) We accept that the Bible is indeed the inspired word of God.

2) We admit that the Bible is a complete fraud.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't it be viewed as a summary of the beliefs of the men who wrote it? They weren't trying to trick anyone. They just wanted to share their message.

Yes, if it claims to be inspired, but it is in fact not inspired, it can only be described as a fraud. There's really no middle ground.

"There's really no middle ground." Why, because you say so? Admit it: there can be no middle ground because that would require open-mindedness...something which is very threatening to most religious faiths.

 

[TonyC]

I'm not saying that it's true, but it does eliminate the need to ignore all the evidence that the Earth was not created in six days!

Oops, I forgot to address this point in my prior post.

"[A]ll the evidence"????

What evidence? I mean, scientific evidence. Not conjecture, not hypothesis, not postulations, not theory... where's the cold, hard evidence?


Let me close with a quote.... I'll leave it to y'all to try to attribute the speaker.

"Geology assuredly does not reveal any such finely-graduated organic chain; and this, perhaps, is the most obvious and serious objection which can be urged against the theory. The explanation lies, as I believe, in the extreme imperfection of the geological record."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Originally written by ??????????

OK, name the author.

 

[TonyC]

Why can't it be viewed as a summary of the beliefs of the men who wrote it? They weren't trying to trick anyone. They just wanted to share their message.

IF they start out by claiming inspiration, and they aren't inspired, then the whole thing is predicated on a LIE. I don't know about you, but I find the idea of a bunch of liars handing out their ideas on life to be absolutely repulsive.

Kinda like Jesse Jackson giving Clinton advice on marital fidelity.

Kinda like Clinton giving your daughter advice about honesty.

Why is that so hard to see?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by TonyC
What evidence? I mean, scientific evidence. Not conjecture, not hypothesis, not postulations, not theory...where's the cold, hard evidence?

Does it matter, Tony? Look, I spent four years studying geology and geography. I could go into stratification and radiometric soil studies and a hundred other things...and it won't make a bit of difference because you can always just say "well, God made it that way." That's the beauty of religion: there's no need to understand anything. God is the answer to all questions. Anything else, no matter how rational, is heresy.

Tell me why your God would give us a mind capable of understanding such complexity...only to demand that we conform to simple-minded religions.

There was a time when human beings did exactly as you suggest, rejected rationality in favor of the "inspired word of God." It was called the "Dark Ages."

 

[Typhoon1244]

IF they start out by claiming inspiration, and they aren't inspired, then the whole thing is predicated on a LIE.

Or the whole thing is predicated on religious fervor. On misunderstanding.

Suppose your son tells you there's a yellow elephant in his closet because he really believes it's in there. Is he lying?

Suppose the appostle Paul had an epilectic seizure during which God appeared to speak with him, then he writes about it. Is he lying?

The answer is "no" to both questions.

Here's another example...you'll love this: three days after Christ's burial, his followers return to his tomb to find the cover removed and Christ's body gone. This suggested two possibilities:

(1) Somebody stole the body for some unknown purpose, or...
(2) Christ "rose from the dead."

Guess which one they went with.

Now the fact that they guessed wrong (for whatever reason) doesn't make them liars. They're not trying to pull one over on you when they tell their story.

Liars? No. Gullable...?

 

[TonyC]

This sentence--particularly the use of the word "creating"--proves that you've chosen to reject evolutionary theory without bothering to understand it.Good idea.

I notice you didn't offer an example - - I'll rephrase to make you happy, and then you can provide the example.

Show me one example of any species evolving from another, and I'll change my mind.

Let's tear out the heart of modern biology and replace it with magic and mysticism.

While we're at it, let's make our women wear veils and prohibit them from going to school.

Specious argument, and it really does nothing to further the edification of any of the parties to this discussion. LET ME RE-REVIEW. Snakum suggested that we stick to facts - - FACTS. I said OK, let's remove all the theories - - including the Theory of General Evolution. Nowhere did I suggest replacing facts with myths, or suggest the oppression of women. Give me a little bit of credit, or just a modicum of respect. If we can't discuss the topic like intelligent adults, why spend the time?

 

[TonyC]

Does it matter, Tony? Look, I spent four years studying geology and geography. I could go into stratification and radiometric soil studies and a hundred other things...and it won't make a bit of difference because you can always just say "well, God made it that way."

Go for it.

 

[Typhoon1244]

I notice you didn't offer an example...

Okay: whales.

Most modern balleen whales--the Right whale, for example--have teeth buds during the early stages of fetal development. As the infant matures, these buds gradually disappear...but why were they there in the first place? Did God make a mistake?

Or is this evidence, real concrete evidence, that balleen whales and toothed whales have a common ancestor? Add to it that there are whales in the "fossil record" that have both teeth and balleen, and Mr. Darwin's voice can be heard.

See, the trouble is that people think evolution entails an organism giving birth to a radically different organism. It doesn't work that way. A minor mutation takes place, and if the creature's environment favors it, the mutated animal survives. If not, it becomes extinct before it even had a chance to reproduce.

Toothed and balleen whales formed all over the world. In some seas, the food supply demanded that whales have teeth, and the plankton-strainers were wiped out. In other parts of the world, it went the other way.

It's actually a pretty elegant way of running an ecosystem...and it's a way of thinking that's way beyond the understanding of the authors of the Bible because they lacked the science to study the issue. They weren't lying, they just didn't know any better.

So what's so wrong--assuming you're going to insist on believing in God--with thinking that maybe God wound up the evolutionary clock and let 'er run?

 

[Typhoon1244]

(How the fukc did we go from Communist goals in '63 to balleen whales?)

 

[skyking1976]

I could BBQ or beer-jack this thread. Just say the word...