Coming to Netjets

[800 Driver]

Hey all,

I am being furloughed from a "major" carrier on the fifth of february. I am starting class on Feb 14th in the Hawker 800XP.

This was not an easy decision. I have flown 121 for 10 years now and the change scares me a little. Especially after reading some of the posts on this site. However, I am looking forward to working at Netjets.

Before you all jump on me, I want to see if I have my info right.

1. Pay sucks. True, but I feel that will change in the near future. Besides, from what my buddy there tells me, with all the nontax income, it's about what I take home now making $60000/yr. A little less, but not by much.

2. Long hours. Well, for those that have never been at an airline, you will run 10 to 14 hours days there also. So that's a wash.

3. You don't know where you are going when you are flying. Big deal. I figure they own me for my tour so I don't care where I go.

As far as I can tell, that pretty much covers the bad. Now the good as I see it.

1. Live pretty much where you want to.
2. Airline to work positive space with NO jumpseating. For commuters, this is a dream.
3. Rarely work any days off. Not so if you are a commuter at an airline.
4. Company paid health insurance. Yes, I have looked at it and it is outstanding coverage compared to the airlines.
5. Crew meals.
6. A few other perks that I can't think of right now.

Anyway, I am looking forward to joining y'all on the line in the 800XP.

Take care,

Fed-up airline pilot Matt

 

[Grizz]

I'm not sure how you get from $27,000 a year to $60,000. As to the rest, PM me your number and I'll fill you in.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

1. Pay sucks. True, but I feel that will change in the near future. Besides, from what my buddy there tells me, with all the nontax income, it's about what I take home now making $60000/yr. A little less, but not by much.

1st year is $28k. MY 3rd YEAR CAPTAIN's W2 came to $51k...and THAT was WITH overtime and holiday pay. Your buddy is LYING to you or just an idiot.

2. Long hours. Well, for those that have never been at an airline, you will run 10 to 14 hours days there also. So that's a wash.

You have NO idea. A day at Nutjets doesn't even compare to a day at the majors. If you thought a day at Brand X Major airline was tough, this will KILL you. (I am furloughed from brand X major too).

3. You don't know where you are going when you are flying. Big deal. I figure they own me for my tour so I don't care where I go.

Yes, this is no big deal and your "buddy" was right on this one.

As far as I can tell, that pretty much covers the bad. Now the good as I see it.

1. Live pretty much where you want to.

Well there are "rules" regarding your gateway...but you will get all that in indoc. ALSO, the company WANTS DESPERATELY to FORCE all new hires to live within NINETY MILES of an RCA. There are only FIVE RCA's currently identified. This was voted DOWN in the last contract vote but don't be surprised if this happens in the future. I'm sure your "buddy" forgot to tell you this too.

2. Airline to work positive space with NO jumpseating. For commuters, this is a dream.

If you don't live at your gateway you WILL have a crashpad and you WILL miss jumpseating. If you LIVE at a gateway, it is an advantage as you will start/end each tour at your "gateway" (hub). NOT having jumpseating privileges is NOT a dream dude. Again, you will see.

3. Rarely work any days off. Not so if you are a commuter at an airline.

NOT ! I was just involuntarily extended last tour. The LAST thing anyone wants to hear is, "we are involuntarily extending you because of blah blah blah." Especially when you are **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** READY to go home.

4. Company paid health insurance. Yes, I have looked at it and it is outstanding coverage compared to the airlines.

Were you REALLY at a Major ? Unless the post 9/11 benefits have absolutely TANKED, I can't see what we have here as "better" than at a Major airline. Could be wrong, I have been furloughed for 3 years now.

5. Crew meals.

Of COURSE you get crew meals...your salary is such a JOKE that you NEED crew meals. The company would rather you not die on the road from starvation. They need you to fill a seat.

6. A few other perks that I can't think of right now.

um....I can't either...even after 3+ years here.

Anyway, I am looking forward to joining y'all on the line in the 800XP.
Take care,
Fed-up airline pilot Matt

I recommend you NEVER talk to your "buddy" again. He is either misinformed/lying/stupid. Now don't you fret, some management hack will come on here and say how GREAT it is here at Nutjets and you will feel all warm and fuzzy about it all again...but we all see the ugly truth once we get here. You are coming in, and I am fighting to get out...but I DO wish you luck. Nutjets is better than unemployment...sort of.

 

[800 Driver]

Thanks for the info Grizz.

 

[flyfish]

800 driver,

Welcome aboard. I'll be in CMH Feb. 7-26 for Falcon 2000 intial. Maybe I'll see you around. Hopefully we can all put our efforts into continuing to improve this place, and maybe less just bitching and not doing anything about it. Best of luck to you.

 

[rajflyboy]

800 Driver

401K isn't half bad either. You can put 15% into your 401K and the company will match half

Vacation Months are nice too. With the 17 day schedule you will get 11 days off in a row during your vacation week

 

[hydrarkt]

You will NOT make 60K as an FO.... now way. I'm on 5 year CPT's pay, flying the "flex" schedule, which means I work 19 days per month for an extra $900. Doing this for 3 out of 4 qtrs, I made a whopping $76K last year... that's without per diem. So you are WAAAAAAY overestimating your salary. The other things you say are pretty much on.
You will have to work harder than a 121.. eg.. sling bags, vacuum, wipe, post flight, order fuel, coffee, papers, get catering onboard etc.
As far as not knowing where you're going, this is true. The good part is you will see MANY places a 121 pilot never will.
IF we ever get paid what we're worth, and get the good schdule for everyone and a good scope, this will be a great place to work.
Be that as it may, I have an ap in a SWA and will go there in a heartbeat.

 

[Diesel]

yo hydrkt lets go man..... I'm going to walk the dog. I'm hungry though. Saki saki saki saki

Hey flyfish have you gotten hotel info for the ES? I'm still waiting for hotel info. I wish we could go to the homeboy sweets.

Looking forward to having study sessions at sirens.

 

[800 Driver]

When I made the camparison to 60K it was in terms of NET TAKE HOME.

AT 60K I take home 3000K per month. LOTS of taxes taken out.

At 27500K I should TAKE HOME about $2800/mo (includes per diem, etc)

That was the comparison.

Thanks for all the replies. Still looking forward to something different for a change.

 

[Mach92]

Hey newsflash here........ NetJets is not Delta, FEDEX or SWA. We have an upcomming HUGE labor battle that anyone comming here better be ready to flight (remember the UAL 570 group) While NutJets may be messed up we are TRYING to make this place at least a so so place to work. This will never be a 121 turn left close the door make 200K. We work here and SOME I say some of the benefits are good. Insurance one of them. Pay we wont even talk about it. Thats been beat to death enough.

I will say this......The NetJets pilot group is unified beyond belief. We will not stand by while management drags this contract out. We have a new MEC leadership and its going to get ulgy. If you support us great! Stand up like so many other pilots at other places in the past 20 years. The time is now to make a change and a stance.

 

[flyfish]

Hey flyfish have you gotten hotel info for the ES? I'm still waiting for hotel info. I wish we could go to the homeboy sweets.

Looking forward to having study sessions at sirens.

I haven't got my hotel info yet. If it is ES, then Siren's it is. The first time I walked in there, I thought it was a steakhouse...... they do serve up some prime beef there though. What's good about the Homewood? I haven't been there.

 

[On Your Six]

When I made the camparison to 60K it was in terms of NET TAKE HOME.

AT 60K I take home 3000K per month. LOTS of taxes taken out.

At 27500K I should TAKE HOME about $2800/mo (includes per diem, etc)

That was the comparison.

Thanks for all the replies. Still looking forward to something different for a change.

I have a number of friends at NJA and most like it very much (most enjoy it but a few are looking elsewhere because of the current pay). However, at least you are starting to hopefully understand the pay situation at NJA - not good. There is hope that it will get better soon as a new contract is approved (not sure when that will happen though). I think it will be a good change for you too - I fly corporate and I really enjoy the route variety aspect personally.

Do you know yet whether you will be trained on the regular XP or the newer XPC (Collins full-glass)?

 

[General Lee]

800 driver,


A good friend of mine flies the Citation X as a Captain and really enjoys the job. Yes, he says the pay needs to increase, but he likes the 7 on 7 off and enjoys the variety of airports. He says the work can be grueling every once and awhile, but most days are not too bad. He enjoys it, and you will too----especially after the pay goes up.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[b727captain]

800 Driver...

Welcome to the madness at NJA...it has its good and bad...it really is all about your ability to deal with it! Some days are easier than others but don't drop your guard and get too comfortable...keep your resume updated and keep looking for better jobs...you never know what's lurking around the corner...
Shoot me a PM and I will fill you in on the good, bad and the ugly of it!!!
Good Luck

 

[hydrarkt]

). However, at least you are starting to hopefully understand the pay situation at NJA - not good.

No Schit Sherlock... "starting to hopefully understand the pay situation???" Are you implying that nobody at NJA previously realized the pay situation?? Do you think we're stupid?

Newsflash Moron!!!! Everyone here has known about the "pay situation" for years. We can tell every 2 weeks when we look at our pay sheet.

 

[beytzim]

800 dirver,

Congrats on the 800XP, its probably the best airplane to be on at Netjets. The X works too hard, the F2000 has bratty F/As, and all the other ones are too small or work too hard.

In regarding pay, you are not going to get $2800 a month take home a month. After 401(k) and taxes, it will be more like $2000 including per diem. Your best bet is to contact all your local FBO's after you get typed and see if you can fly as a Hawker contract F/O for a local flt dept. Typical pay is $500 a day. You won't fly much your first year at Netjets so flying as a contractor will keep your head above water. Good Luck.

 

[Grizz]

800 -

Glad to help. If you need anything, let me know.

 

[gump88]

welcome Aboard!!

800 Driver,

Welcome to NetJets! The job is what you make of it. I came from 13 years 121 and have to say that NetJets was an adjustment. Took me about 6 months to get into a "rythmn." However, other than the pay, it is a good place to be! I would NOT go back to 121 now! Don't let the negatism on this board influence your opinion. We are lucky to get ex-121 guys onboard! The UNION and aviation experience that you bring are assets for our difficult battles that lie ahead. Have a good time and FLY THE CONTRACT to the letter!!!!

G

 

[Semore Butts]

Guys are right about the 800XP

The other posters are right about the pay and the fleet.

I'm an FO on the 800XP, the Cpts I have flown with are all great people, and it is a great fleet to be in.

Welcome aboard, there is alot of change coming. All for the good I think.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

interesting...
I still remember FO pay as being about EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS every two weeks AFTER taxes and AFTER 401k deductions. If you DON'T have state tax, it will be SLIGHTLY more.

AND, if you are coming here in HOPES of a FANTASTIC new contract...don't hold your breath. EVERYBODY wants Nutjets to be THE PLACE to work...including me BUT...the current TREND by management shows signs in the OPPOSITE DIRECTION !!!

Did you know that they proposed a $4000 A YEAR raise on this last TA ?
Did you know that a BBJ FA makes more than a FIVE YEAR FO ?
Did you know that a BBJ FA makes the same as a 3 year CAPTAIN - ON EVERY PLANE ?

Oh yeah, I forgot...the NEW IMPROVED CONTRACT will take care of ALL of this and more...

Time will tell...but the koolaid tastes really great !

 

[Heavy Set]

No Schit Sherlock... "starting to hopefully understand the pay situation???" Are you implying that nobody at NJA previously realized the pay situation?? Do you think we're stupid?

Newsflash Moron!!!! Everyone here has known about the "pay situation" for years. We can tell every 2 weeks when we look at our pay sheet.

Great professional attitude! I think he was addressing someone else - not you. You sound like a jacka$$ - maybe you should look for employment elsewhere very, very soon (like the Post Office where you can go postal and shoot everyone).... I'm sure you're fun to fly with.

 

[On Your Six]

800 dirver,

Congrats on the 800XP, its probably the best airplane to be on at Netjets. The X works too hard, the F2000 has bratty F/As, and all the other ones are too small or work too hard.

In regarding pay, you are not going to get $2800 a month take home a month. After 401(k) and taxes, it will be more like $2000 including per diem. Your best bet is to contact all your local FBO's after you get typed and see if you can fly as a Hawker contract F/O for a local flt dept. Typical pay is $500 a day. You won't fly much your first year at Netjets so flying as a contractor will keep your head above water. Good Luck.

How are Hawker 800 pilots allocated between the normal XP and the XPC? Are you trained on both or do you just fly one or the other? Would newhires likely be trained on the normal XP? Is the 1000 a good fleet to be on as well?

 

[sweptwingz]

How are Hawker 800 pilots allocated between the normal XP and the XPC? Are you trained on both or do you just fly one or the other? Would newhires likely be trained on the normal XP? Is the 1000 a good fleet to be on as well?

Six, as of now, the Hawker 800 guys are avionics specific with no crossover between the two airplanes. The 1000 is a good fleet, but they're all going away (i.e. for sale) so there probably won't be any more crew hiring into that plane.

 

[Lrjet55]

Welcome Aboard 800 Driver.

Check your pm.

 

[MalteseX]

When I made the camparison to 60K it was in terms of NET TAKE HOME.

AT 60K I take home 3000K per month. LOTS of taxes taken out.

At 27500K I should TAKE HOME about $2800/mo (includes per diem, etc)

That was the comparison.

Thanks for all the replies. Still looking forward to something different for a change.

I'm a first year F/O.... The take home pay you estimate above is optimistic. Mine is $888 every 2 weeks take home not incl per diem etc. (FL therefore no state taxes). That's slightly less than $1800 per month. On a high month I average $450 in "saved" per diem & overtime--if you want to starve and have no fun. Low month about 210. Therefore expect to take home $2010 to $2250 per month including ALL per diem overtime etc.
Additionally, history is not in our favor. Many folks have gotten Capt pay due to upgrade or bypass--based on numbers now, that's not the case; so plan on about $2250 (high) the first year and $2500 or so after 3-5 years; maybe longer depending on what happens with upgrades contract, etc. This includes all extra pay. If you live in a state that taxes your income, expect it to be a bit lower.

I like working here. With the exception of pay, the working conditions are OK and the flying is great--I like this type of flying and you have a set schedule vs. being on beeper--can't compare it to a 121 operation.

However, not sure I can stay with this low pay if having to stay SIC for more than a couple of years.

 

[Ex-teamster]

After 4 years I quit Netjets last August. It was bittersweet. I thought the job was the best and would only get better with a new contract. Met interesting people and flew to new places. For the most part the pilots are top notch. Had a lot of fun and glad I did it. The years of low pay and long hours slowly wore me down. I became upset at the union and the company. My attitude started to get so bad it was unhealthy. I read a couple books about real estate 2 years ago. Now I do real estate full time. I don't miss the job but I do miss the people I flew with. Today I get to watch the superbowl for the first time in years. Good luck to you 800 driver. I was in the ultra but I heard good things about the hawker.

 

[Freight Dog]

How many NetJets guys work contract jobs on the side?

 

[Semore Butts]

Probably as many can

Probably as many as can. I worked part time when I was at Flexjet, and then kept the job when I went to Netjets.

It was a great idea at the time, but I got activated at my part time job an now reside in Iraq.

The positive side is I got the 100% raise that I wanted.

But let me tell you this. I'm making ok money (Tax free, combat pay, family separation, hostile fire pay). Its not great money, just OK. It's not as much as you think.


It's a shame that many have to work 2 jobs just to make financial goals.
I don't own a boat, my cars are used, and I have 2 kids in college. I have never taken a vacation that didn't involve my family car. My wife works also.

My goal is that I get to eat canned dog food when I'm old instead of that dry stuff.

 

[Freight Dog]

My wife just returned from Iraq a couple of weeks ago having served a year there.

Thanks for serving our country SB and stay safe...

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Bottom line...

You are happy about getting the job at NJA.
You will accept the GOOD feedback and reject the BAD feedback by discounting it as "disgruntled employee speak."
No matter what, you are in the tractor beam and, most probably, won't escape.
Having said that, "welcome aboard and good luck." Hope you can get out of here one day...it's not good.