Combining the seniority lists

[skydiverdriver]

I also like the part you say about us getting no support from Delta pilots because of the rjdc. Well, we didn't get any before, and now, at least your talking about it. I think the party at fault would be the first one to do something improper, which was you guys. We came to you and asked to TALK, and were told that we should go work on a flowthrough. I think it is YOU guys who should take the blame for making us go to court to seek our redress. You see, we wouldn't have had to file a lawsuit if YOUR guys would have agreed to speak to us.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

The Disadvantages of not having a onelist situation is multiple managment groups, the lack of the ability to maximize the use of company assets, and the inability to fly the right aircraft in the right market.

No need to comment further cause Big D will never convince the Delta mainline pilots that it would work to their advantage.

Crow,

With all due respect, I think you are missing the point. It is not the mainline pilots who need to be convinced. It is management, who has stated on numerous occasions that they will never merge the lists. The cost savings you mentioned are more than cancelled out by the added expenses from increased salaries, retirement, etc.

The point of this thread is how we can convince management, and the Delta pilots, that onelist can benefit both.

Any ideas would be appreciated. As of yet, I have heard none.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

SDD,

All of your points have been rehashed over and over. I think the rjdc is at fault. You do not. I think you should come to us. You think we should come to you.

It is all academic, and not at all relevant to this discussion.


Let's assume we all agree it is a good idea.


How do we achieve it? Let's hear some concrete ideas.

 

[skydiverdriver]

FDJ,
Do you see my questions? I tried to answer yours, so, what do you think?

 

[skydiverdriver]

Well, I think we should talk about it first, to set some strategies. But, since your guys refused to talk about it, perhaps they should come to us. Why do you think they won't? Anyway, they are going to talk on the 2nd of April. Call the Comair VARS, and look at my post on Delta, Comair and ASA MEC's to meet for more info.

 

[rjcap]

Flydeltajets

I agree with you rj. You guys are winning right now. All I stated is that you failed to get meaningful scope. We did get it, though it is being ignored.

My post was in reponse to your request that we should accept that we are competitors. I agree with that assesment, but think it is direct contrast to the actions of the rjdc who is attempting to abrogate our contract

I guess that I was not too clear. I apologize. I shouldn't have gotten into it. I would love it if this thread continues with my original intent, garnering ideas for onelist.

No sweat.

This whole thing has become quite frustrating. Unfortunately the pilots among mainline and ComAsa are becoming divided when they need to focus the anger at the source - the CEO.

Good luck

 

[Draginass]

The regional guys aren't "winning" anything. They may be getting some more jets and routes in the short term, but for the same low compensation and weak scope . . . . and soon as management feels they're getting too upity . . . . . then bring on the outsourcers. Why should they pay an RJ captain $80k a year when they can get somebody to do it for $45k? Retirement plan? What's that?

 

[skydiverdriver]

FDJ,
Honestly, I don't know the answer to your question, and that's why I've been asking it for so long. Personally, I think if we sat down with our respective MEC"s and came up with a onelist plan, that Delta would go for it. It's just my own opinion, and even if I'm wrong, that would be a useful first step.

We tried to talk, and were turned down. We tried to do the PID, and were turned down. Now we are in litigation, our last resort, because our rights were being ignored. I think the rj pilots are the injured party here, and since we are in litigation, any private contact between the parties involved would probably be incorrect. However, if your MEC went to ALPA and proposed a settlement, I'm sure that would be considered by all the parties.

I'm not a lawyer, or a party to the rjdc. I'm just a line pilot who believes in their cause. I've been asking this same question for so long, and now, someone else is finally tackling it. People keep telling me that a lawsuit was a bad idea, and we should drop it, but nobody has ever given me an alternative idea. I suppose the only alternative is to do nothing, which I think wouldn't help.

So, since it was Delta and ALPA that said no when we wanted to talk, they should be the ones to make the first move. However, I think they are. Comair's current VARS message says that they will be meeting on the 2nd of April. It doesn't say what the meeting is about, but I'm guessing this issue will be discussed. So, perhaps it's allready being taken care of. I hope it works out for the best for everyone involved, I really do.

 

[rjcap]

Draginass

The regional guys aren't "winning" anything. They may be getting some more jets and routes in the short term, but for the same low compensation and weak scope

I agree. I wouldn't phrase it as winning but merely a momentary shift dictated by cost and opportunity as viewed by management.

This will continue till the cost benefits of RJ's vs mainline reverse or become irrelevent.

Keep in mind gentlemen, while we all want greater benefits and compensation/retirement, the best job is the one you have at the present moment that is paying your mortgage and expenses. The prospects of mainline compensation and workrules are very enticing but improving your present situation ( meant to read new contract) is definitely more relevent in todays airline industry enviornment.

Just another worthless 2 cents worth.

 

[publisher]

Review

Let's go over this once more:

1. . There will be the elimination of most tubo props and regionals will consist of almost entirely regional jets.

2... The major carriers will make every effort to spin off their regional carrier positions in order to raise cash and profits over the next year and a half. See Northwest and Continental for starters.

3. Delta will likely do the same.

4....Nothing that might impair that negatively will be accepted. See Comair strike history. One list of any kind across companies they may not own tomorrow is not even a consideration.

5. Delta has made it clear through ComAir and taking their current stance how important it is that regionals stay separate and apart, not more together.

6. It is likely that Delta will face, along with the other majors, severe competition from other carriers who will be separate carriers, more from people like Southwest and the other niche players, and more from overseas.

7... Against the above senario, you do not have, nor is it likely to come, any unity among pilot groups and union leadership.

8.. Scope is not going to work either for the exact same reasons.

9.. As we have discussed before, there are issues that in labor negotiation that are not negotiable, deal breakers, if you will. Leave the table stuff. This is one of those type issues.

10... Why do you think that union leadership really wants to avoid this like the plague. ALPA thought the Comair deal was nothing but a pain in their rears that they were stuck with. This would be 10 times worse.