Comair's Proposal in Writing

[uba757]

Watery I took the Voluntary. I refinanced my home to come to Comair. I took a 66% Pay cut from my all job because I saw the potential at Comair. But my family and I cant survive at $30 an hour or less for another year. I will vote no and will go on strike if I have to prove my point. I left my old company because I was promised the world and got sh!t. I came to Comair because I was promised the world again and here comes the SH!T. The moral here is to go where they offer you SH!T and hope for the world at least you really know what you are getting your self into. UBA757

 

[WateryGrave]

Watery I took the Voluntary. I refinanced my home to come to Comair. I took a 66% Pay cut from my all job because I saw the potential at Comair. But my family and I cant survive at $30 an hour or less for another year. I will vote no and will go on strike if I have to prove my point. I left my old company because I was promised the world and got sh!t. I came to Comair because I was promised the world again and here comes the SH!T. The moral here is to go where they offer you SH!T and hope for the world at least you really know what you are getting your self into. UBA757

UBA I'm sorry for the position you are in. I understand that there are many Comair pilots in a similar position but that does not change mine. If this company is no longer someplace you wish do work then good luck in all your future endevors. But why would you cast a vote against something that will have no effect on you, it will only lead to putting more of your brothers out of a job. (assuming you believe managements threat to liquidate the company of course).

Vote with your head people!!

89 day strike means absolutely nothing
past profits mean absolutely nothing
insincere management mean absolutly nothing
QUIT LIVING IN THE PAST

All that matters is the current situation that Delta and the industry finds itself in. Anyone who questions Delta's willingness to send every single one of our planes elsewhere to be flown for cheaper needs to go back to high school and take a basic economics class. It could be very enlightening for all of you.

WG

 

[jehtplane]

For the most part this is still better that what ASA has to work under.

How do you you figure?

 

[PositiveRate]

As a former Comair FO, I take the captain-centric mentality personally. paycuts for FO's in the 13-20% range while 50 seat ca's are looking at just 9% cuts? That's total BS. Most 2-3 yr FO's are just getting by as it is... No company funded retirement to the 401k?? Comair used to stand for something...don't piss that away. My impression was that the 3 yrs after the strike were prosperous and helped a lot of pilots live comfortable lives...the fight mentality was dying because of it.


No, No, No...

Lead guys. No one else will.

 

[sweptback]

As a former Comair FO, I take the captain-centric mentality personally. paycuts for FO's in the 13-20% range while 50 seat ca's are looking at just 9% cuts? That's total BS. Most 2-3 yr FO's are just getting by as it is... No company funded retirement to the 401k?? Comair used to stand for something...don't piss that away. My impression was that the 3 yrs after the strike were prosperous and helped a lot of pilots live comfortable lives...the fight mentality was dying because of it.

The deal lately about FOs getting the shaft is nothing short of criminal. First Alaska, then the Mesaba proposal, and now Comair all have much higher paycuts for FOs. For a major, I guess it would be somewhat tolerable, but at a regional it's just pathetic.

Things like defunding the retirement program and reducing the per diem disproportinately affect FOs too. Captains, at least in theory, could fund their retirements easier than a FO making bottom-barrel wages.

Keep in mind the 40% of future CRJ aircraft does not cover EMB-17x deliveries to CHQ, or contract-mandated growth plans for SKYW or MAG (don't think they don't have their own similar growth targets to be met in their DCI agreement either). Basically, this seems to have as much teeth as your LOA, and we all know how well DL respected that one.

Unfortunately, this is just management pandering to the 51% that's needed to pass, and it will probably pass (I'd be surprised if it was rejected).

So now if the DCI mantra is that no pilot group is expected to get payrates greater than the average of the lot, how are any of us ever expected to get a raise?

 

[Homer Jay]

I'm voting NO, it's as simple as that. Let them shut us down. I could make as much bagging groceries.

 

[OPECJet]

UBA I'm sorry for the position you are in. I understand that there are many Comair pilots in a similar position but that does not change mine. If this company is no longer someplace you wish do work then good luck in all your future endevors. But why would you cast a vote against something that will have no effect on you, it will only lead to putting more of your brothers out of a job. (assuming you believe managements threat to liquidate the company of course).

Vote with your head people!!

89 day strike means absolutely nothing
past profits mean absolutely nothing
insincere management mean absolutly nothing
QUIT LIVING IN THE PAST

All that matters is the current situation that Delta and the industry finds itself in. Anyone who questions Delta's willingness to send every single one of our planes elsewhere to be flown for cheaper needs to go back to high school and take a basic economics class. It could be very enlightening for all of you.

WG

You're part of the problem my friend....

You're one of those guys willing to sell the guy in the right seat down the river. You forgot that at one time you were the guy sitting there dealing with a grumpy SOB such as yourself. Now you're the grumpy SOB sitting in the left seat looking at the other guy and thinking "sucks to be you...." What does it matter anyway? You've got yours....

 

[bvt1151]

No, No, No...

Lead guys. No one else will.

The problem is, if Comair leads, they all lose their jobs and the lowest paid pilots get the aircraft. In effect, Comair would leading the race to the bottom. If they decide to accept the proposal, they would take away the bar (which has proven ineffective since no pilot group has been able to even come near) and keep 1800 jobs at "average" pay. I like "average" better than "lowest."

To the Comair pilots, be very suspicious of pilots from other airlines telling you to vote this down. They have everything to gain from a no vote, specifically 165 of Comair's aircraft, and absolutely nothing to lose. There is no support until they all refuse to accept ex-Comair airplanes, and this is as unlikely to happen as Delta is of turning a profit this quarter.

If all Comair pilots lose their jobs, it actually affects them favorably. Don't base your decision on what pilots from other airlines say. Especially other DCI carriers who stand to gain so much at such a high cost to Comair pilots.

 

[mrnolmts]

Taking a stand is the stupidest reason anyone could give for voting this contract in. If Comair pilots take a stand, the aircraft will be transferred to Mesa, ASA, or Skywest and will be flown by newhire pilots at less than the Comair proposed pay. What kind of statement is that?

When Comair pilots vote this down, I want to see every pilot group standing behind them. This means actual support, not "gee nice try but thanks for the airplanes." Mesa, Skywest, ASA, and Chautaqua pilot groups need to put out resolutions that say they will refuse to fly any aircraft that is transferred from Comair. Without this, there is no tangible support whatsoever from the other groups, regardless of what you "say." Without those resolutions, Comair taking a stand will only result in the lowest paid pilot groups benefiting, and Delta management winning the labor war in greater fashion than if the Comair pilots voted this in.

Very well said, my friend. Very easy for people at other airlines to tell the Comair guys to "stand strong", when they themselves have nothing to lose in this. You must know that the pilots at Mesa, SKywest, ASA, etc will never refuse Comair flying... Is that not what happened the last time when Comair went out on strike? DAL had other regionals do some of the flying? I would not be surprised to see Comair dwindle down to nothing if their pilots do "the right thing" and tells management to shove it. Why would management want to deal with a pilot group that actually has a backbone???
That said, I wish you Comair guys luck, no matter what you decide to do.

 

[StaySeated]

Jesus when are we ever going to stop with the "hores"...

Wow, that proposal is significantly worse than I imagined it would be. I am impressed by some of the company's techniques. The feb loa longevity freeze holds everyone back and then these new rates are applied to the "frozen" position. If you compared the proposed rates to where everyone should be the pay cut percentage would be MUCH bigger. What the f is with DH pay, and Vacation pay, and 401k, and binding arbitration for new equipment pay. If you vote for this thinking it will save the company as you know it you are mistaken. There is nothing in this proposal that gurantees anything if it is approved. The predictable threats have already started. I have always maintained that the company is going to do what they are going to do, regardless of the outcome of this or any vote. I am truly sorry that everyone at comair is in this position. One thing to consider, UAL is recalling and the bypass rate is staggering. Most of the fuloughees have found other jobs. While some are still in aviation, a lot of them have come to the reallization that this job just isn't worth it anymore. Good luck with your vote, if it does pass I wonder how long it will be until they come back for more?

 

[Max Powers]

For all you puss that are going to cave because you think if you don't the show is over and they are going to shut you down...your nuts have some balls your worth more than you think and no they won't shut it down they will just give you a little bit better deal to take home.

 

[bvt1151]

For all you puss that are going to cave because you think if you don't the show is over and they are going to shut you down...your nuts have some balls your worth more than you think and no they won't shut it down they will just give you a little bit better deal to take home.

From my previous post:

To the Comair pilots, be very suspicious of pilots from other airlines telling you to vote this down. They have everything to gain from a no vote, specifically 165 of Comair's aircraft, and absolutely nothing to lose. There is no support until they all refuse to accept ex-Comair airplanes, and this is as unlikely to happen as Delta is of turning a profit this quarter.

If all Comair pilots lose their jobs, it actually affects them favorably. Don't base your decision on what pilots from other airlines say. Especially other DCI carriers who stand to gain so much at such a high cost to Comair pilots.

That didn't take long.

 

[Nindiri]

Question for the Comair guys. Can Delta liquidate Comair without the judge's approval?

Also, from reading the board here, I understand that the pre-strike pilots have furlough protection. Can Delta violate that no-furlough provision if they do decide to shrink or close down Comair because it isn't economically competitive? It seems they would need the judge to allow them to throw out that provision, and from her comments she doesn't sound like she would approve of that sort of tactic.

How many pilots are still protected by that no-furlough clause?

Thanks, and goodluck no matter what you choose.

 

[bvt1151]

Question for the Comair guys. Can Delta liquidate Comair without the judge's approval?

I don't think so, but there's no reason she would deny it. If someone is willing to pay more for the parts than for the parts and pilots, its an obvious decision.

Also, from reading the board here, I understand that the pre-strike pilots have furlough protection. Can Delta violate that no-furlough provision if they do decide to shrink or close down Comair because it isn't economically competitive? It seems they would need the judge to allow them to throw out that provision, and from her comments she doesn't sound like she would approve of that sort of tactic.

She will never see the contract. The company is already violating the recent furlough protection and the judge has no say in that. No reason to believe the first furlough protection would do any better than the second.

How many pilots are still protected by that no-furlough clause?

I believe its roughly half, although I question your choice of the word "protected"

 

[Nindiri]

Not very encouraging.

Well, fwiw, if it comes to a shutdown of CMR, I for one will be doing everything in my power to avoid flying any former Comair equipment. MX write-ups, sick calls, whatever it takes as much as possible. The problem will be knowing which equipment that is; hopefully the union will provide some info.

 

[OCP]

How do you you figure?

The pay rates are not, but the work rules are still better. i.e. Schedualing.

 

[ILS2DH]

Of course the FO rates are the worst!! You think the Negotiating commitee sat around and tried to figure out ways to keep FO pay. HELL NO! They did everything they could to keep the 70 scale for the Captains only and the top end pay for the Captains. The Union could give two Sh**s about someoned who has been here less than 10 years or anyone who is not planning on trying to make a career at this company.

Aren't you glad that 2% of your paycheck is going to represent you????

The fact that our MEC deemed this proposal unacceptable, yet still put it out for member vote is just further proof of how weak they really are. Thanks for nothing!

 

[ThisistheDream]

What happens if it is a NO vote? , DAL will take it to the judge and the same or very close to same proposal will be enforced. It sucks to think that this is happening but what did people expect? The Comair group had not taken any concessions until lately with the pay freeze while everyone else has taken or been forced into cuts so why would the Comair pilots think that nothing bad would happen and that they would skate thru this bad downturn totaly uneffected? even after this cut they still will be better off than alot of other RJ fleet airlines. But!!!!! I will still vote NO becuase there is nothing to lose as far pay. Anyone can get a job making FO and even CA pay be home every night. 50% or more pilots say that if they knew what situtation the airlines would be in 5-10 years ago they would have never got in this industry, well here is our chance!!!!!!!!!

 

[RCA]

Delta airlines is losing $5million dollars per day. If 17.3 million is that important they probably will and should shut CMR down. Im voting no, If the company fails at least I did my best to make a living as an airline pilot. Cant survive on 30 bucks and even if the upgrade comes in 3-4 yrs 62 isnt that much either.

 

[goodto50meters]

The fact that our MEC deemed this proposal unacceptable, yet still put it out for member vote is just further proof of how weak they really are. Thanks for nothing!

Maybe this is a briliiant way to shove it up Phab-Phive-Phreddo's a$$ by showing him and Delta that this wont fly, and a huge NO vote by the Comair pilots would certainly make the point.

Show support for your MEC and vote NO then!