Comair's contact is gone; will they strike

[~~~^~~~]

Post your dates and I will be there to walk the line with Comair pilots. There is no need for Delta to beat up on their wholly owned using arbitrary figures just because some idiot went to school at Harvard and got educated for beyond his intelligence. Comair is not a Harvard case study. Real people's lives are being damaged for no great effect on Delta's bottom line.

Especially if you plan to walk in ATL, let us know so we can walk with and show our support.

 

[V-1]

Comair will be hiring. They don't have a choice. They can't replace the pilots who are quitting fast enough...even with aircraft disappearing from the fleet.

This is occurring right now, before imposition of contract terms by the company. Comair has lost over three hundred pilots this year...before imposition of contract terms by the company.

The company is lucky to get half of the 600-hour wonders they're forced to hire through the training. Some just don't show up for class, some quit mid-way, and others wash out in the simulator.

At the rate things are progressing at present...before imposition of contract terms by the company, Comair will need to hire almost 900 pilots next year. Two hundred won't bother to show up for class. One hundred will quit during ground school. Three hundred will wash out during simulator training. The three hundred who are left won't be enough to replace the ones who are quitting.

R.I.P. Comair. It's sad, when you look back at the former success they enjoyed.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Mesa was poised to move into CVG during ComAir's last strike. Yet ALPA never even raised it's voice.

 

[bvt1151]

Post your dates and I will be there to walk the line with Comair pilots. There is no need for Delta to beat up on their wholly owned using arbitrary figures just because some idiot went to school at Harvard and got educated for beyond his intelligence. Comair is not a Harvard case study. Real people's lives are being damaged for no great effect on Delta's bottom line.

Its always nice to see support, but it would help so much better if you'd walk the line and get your contract negotiated. Walking the line with us accomplishes little more than giving us the "warm and fuzzy," but taking some of that downward pressure off of our pay scales is what really needs to happen.

 

[bvt1151]

V1,

wash-out rates in the sim are at the same rates they've always been. According to the sim instructors, its about 1 a month for a total of 12 a year.

You are correct on the numbers leaving class though. Out of 12, about 3 or 4 complete ground school.

 

[1013dot25hPa]

Why is it that other cariers will pick up the flying when an airline strikes? Is the aviation industry the only industry that is that cut-throat?

My wife is a heavy equipment operating engineer and unionized. When her local chapter strikes for better work rules, wages, safety, etc, other local chapters WILL NOT and NEVER HAVE picked up their work. Why can pilots not do this? Especially if they're represented by the same union?

I'm new to the 121 world and airline unions. And am a new CMR hire that will walk the picket line right out of groundschool if it comes that far, and hope it will with the FULL support of other Delta carriers.

I'm probably showing my total ignorance, but if I do, please enlighten me.

 

[bvt1151]

I'm probably showing my total ignorance, but if I do, please enlighten me.

You haven't been in the industry long enough to be ignorant. Give it time, then you'll be as ignorant as the rest of us. Your take on unions as they work outside the industry is spot on. Pilots just can't seem to do what it takes.

 

[plunger]

Why is it that other cariers will pick up the flying when an airline strikes? Is the aviation industry the only industry that is that cut-throat?

My wife is a heavy equipment operating engineer and unionized. When her local chapter strikes for better work rules, wages, safety, etc, other local chapters WILL NOT and NEVER HAVE picked up their work. Why can pilots not do this? Especially if they're represented by the same union?

I'm new to the 121 world and airline unions. And am a new CMR hire that will walk the picket line right out of groundschool if it comes that far, and hope it will with the FULL support of other Delta carriers.

I'm probably showing my total ignorance, but if I do, please enlighten me.

I don't know a whole lot about 121 either but I don't think your represented by the union your first year. So, if you walk the line, I'd imagine CMR would dispose of you rather quickly. The best thing to do if they wanted you to cross the line would be to resign I imagine.

 

[N2264J]

Re: Comair's contract is gone; will they strike

So, if you walk the line, I'd imagine CMR would dispose of you rather quickly. The best thing to do if they wanted you to cross the line would be to resign I imagine.

There's a lot of head games going on right now - much of it, on this board.

Really, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[N2264J]

Re: Comair's contract is gone: will they strike

I think you tough guys should carry out all your threats. Slow down, fly low, burn gas, strike, burn the place down. The sooner Delta drops you scumbags the better. I love to hear you all talk about your strike! You think that it was so big of you! It was dumb as sh$$! In the end you all are still going to take your paycuts, or take your pink slips! Rolling on the ground laughing my a$$ off! I hope Captain Ford enjoys the unemployment line!

In the past, I've recommended this site to 737 Pylt. Coprolalia, a symptom of Tourette's Syndrome, is treatable. Good luck.

http://members.tripod.com/~tourette13/

 

[WateryGrave]

I think he might be more comfortable in an anger management class.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Its always nice to see support, but it would help so much better if you'd walk the line and get your contract negotiated. Walking the line with us accomplishes little more than giving us the "warm and fuzzy" but taking some of that downward pressure off of our pay scales is what really needs to happen.

All I can say is we are trying. Trying a lot harder than your MEC did when it signed on for two rounds of concessions for growth aimed straight at our fleet. Why don't you stop kicking the few pilots that support you square in the nuts. It is hard to hold up the profession when both hands are being used to shield the family jewels from your "friend's" boots.

 

[AMANSWORLD]

If there is a sick out, I assure you that the company will slap the pilot group with a restraining order before lunch. They will use your post as evidence. Don't believe me? Ask anyone that was there in December of '99.

"DOWN!"

Screw the company. They could careless about its employees. They have already shown that. Comair guys and gals hold your ground. You are doing the right thing, flying jobs are a dime a dozen. Besides FWIW you can enjoy the fact that you did it your way in the end.

 

[BrazPilot]

Strike ahead boys and gals! I hope I can walk the lines with you. Enough of this corporate greed cr@p. I wish every regional pilot could have the opportunity to strike and show how much more we deserve. A sure thing is that "big guys" will be at home with their families enjoying the holidays and their fat paychecks caring less about you.
Good luck to you all. God Bless and Merry Christmas or Happy whatever you celebrate.

Braz

 

[AuburnRedneck9]

All I can say is we are trying. Trying a lot harder than your MEC did when it signed on for two rounds of concessions for growth aimed straight at our fleet. Why don't you stop kicking the few pilots that support you square in the nuts. It is hard to hold up the profession when both hands are being used to shield the family jewels from your "friend's" boots.

I disagree our pilot group is not earning a good contract. Most of us are still helping the company out and proceeding with business as usual (that's being a professional according to our union). If we did what CA did with their contract six years ago we would have reached an agreement years ago. It's our fault that CA's getting hit. Whoever said that marching around with them in Atlanta is pointless is correct. We can say that times are different (post 9-11) and point out that some work group was sanctioned for illegal self help, but when the day is over and CA has been screwed we're just as spinless as everyone else. CA screwed ASA with concessions for growth, Mesa voted in a substandard contract for massive growth, Skywest pilots can't get it together and get a union, and we can't stand up to our managment to get a contract. The truth hurts doesn't it?

 

[V-1]

V1,

wash-out rates in the sim are at the same rates they've always been. According to the sim instructors, its about 1 a month for a total of 12 a year.

You are correct on the numbers leaving class though. Out of 12, about 3 or 4 complete ground school.

That's not the information I'm hearing...not that it's likely any more credible than any other information out there.

 

[plunger]

That's not the information I'm hearing...not that it's likely any more credible than any other information out there.

What are you hearing?

 

[crjdxr]

This is coming from a non-pilot, non-ALPA member, so take it FWIW...

I think the point is to begin to reverse the trend. From what I can gather ASA pilots are trying like hades to at least hang on to what they have and not give into the concession paradigm. The Comair guys and gals gave in for a whole host of reasons, none of which seems to be saving them right now. OAL ALPA members walking the line with Comair guys and gals during picketing is a simple show of solidarity. Considering the overall lack thereof, perhaps this simple act speaks more loudly than it did in years past. Maybe it helps to begin to rebuild the "union" in Union.

I dunno - I'm tired of hearing that I cost too much and that my wages are out of whack for the industry in which I work. My problem is that I don't have a trade union to help with that, I'm "at-will", and my only real choice is to leave. I'm envious (to a degree) that you ALPA folks at least have a mechanism to change things for the better if not hold on to what you already have. Maybe it's time to quit worrying about who did what to who for how many cookies how many years ago and just get on with it?

 

[uba757]

Acarpe, I hope US Air purchases your sorry A$$. Even FDJ2 and the General have enough sense not to come here and start talking trash at this critical time for the Comair pilot group. Here you have a bunch of pilots worried about their future and garbage like you have to show your lack of class with stupid comments. At least when the Comair pilots said they were going to strike they did you coward. UBA757

 

[Lear70]

I don't know a whole lot about 121 either but I don't think your represented by the union your first year. So, if you walk the line, I'd imagine CMR would dispose of you rather quickly. The best thing to do if they wanted you to cross the line would be to resign I imagine.

Incorrect.

During your first year you ARE protected by the contract, except for the discipline / termination language.

Even then, NO ALPA carrier has EVER allowed the company to take hostages (fire pilots and hold them as a bargaining tool).

They HAVE allowed the probies to continue to fly in a case or two (who cares if they show up if there's not a CA to fly with them except the handful of mgmt pilots)? They have also asked them not to fly and then refused to return to work with a new agreement until the probies are returned to flying status with nothing in their employment file.

Bottom line, if you're a new-hire, stay in touch with your union reps then do whatever they tell you to do come strike time (but keep your options open for other flying in case the strike is protracted or the company liquidates).

You still have a LONG time before you have to worry about it. CMR will get the injunction and you won't be even close to striking until CMR exits Ch. 11, and that's a big IF no agreement is reached before then AND they don't find yet ANOTHER judge to establish a new precedent with the RLA to inhibit the strike AFTER the company is no longer in bankruptcy.

If they do, you can kiss the RLA protections (what few are left) goodbye in this industry.

 

[WSurf]

I think you tough guys should carry out all your threats. Slow down, fly low, burn gas, strike, burn the place down. The sooner Delta drops you scumbags the better. I love to hear you all talk about your strike! You think that it was so big of you! It was dumb as sh$$! In the end you all are still going to take your paycuts, or take your pink slips! Rolling on the ground laughing my a$$ off! I hope Captain Ford enjoys the unemployment line!

Now he wins the 'Tool of the Day' award!!

Good Luck Comair!! We know what its like (ALG, PSA and PDT), having gone thru a bunch of this also!!

 

[plunger]

Incorrect.

During your first year you ARE protected by the contract, except for the discipline / termination language.

Even then, NO ALPA carrier has EVER allowed the company to take hostages (fire pilots and hold them as a bargaining tool).

They HAVE allowed the probies to continue to fly in a case or two (who cares if they show up if there's not a CA to fly with them except the handful of mgmt pilots)? They have also asked them not to fly and then refused to return to work with a new agreement until the probies are returned to flying status with nothing in their employment file.

Bottom line, if you're a new-hire, stay in touch with your union reps then do whatever they tell you to do come strike time (but keep your options open for other flying in case the strike is protracted or the company liquidates).

You still have a LONG time before you have to worry about it. CMR will get the injunction and you won't be even close to striking until CMR exits Ch. 11, and that's a big IF no agreement is reached before then AND they don't find yet ANOTHER judge to establish a new precedent with the RLA to inhibit the strike AFTER the company is no longer in bankruptcy.

If they do, you can kiss the RLA protections (what few are left) goodbye in this industry.

Thanks for the clarification. I have a class date in Jan. Sort of a weird position to be in. I'm still waiting for them to call or email me saying classes have been cancelled. Either way, I hope everything works out the way the CMR pilots need it to. Good luck to you guys/gals and Merry Christmas.

 

[V-1]

What are you hearing?

I'm hearing a large percentage are not making it through the sim once they get there. This information came from a sim instructor and an IOE captain independently. Once again, it's all secondhand information.

I've also heard the company is substantially retooling training in a desperate attempt to get pilots with such low experience levels through the training and onto the line to plug holes in the dam created by pilot resignations.

For any of you low-time pilots who are considering Comair, don't think the "low experience levels" comment is directed at you personally. I'm certain if you find your way onto the line at Comair, the pilots there will bend over backward to help you be successful. Rather, the ire is directed at the failed leadership at Comair and Delta. They've really painted themselves into a corner with staffing levels (coupled with a never ending message that the pilots are liabilities to the company, not assets) at Comair.

Four years ago, Comair had pilots lined up hoping for a job. Highly experienced, many with several thousand hours of quality flight time in part 121 and part 135 operations. Today Comair is scraping the bottom of the barrel (in terms of experience), instead of recruiting the best possible candidates available. They have no choice now. Anyone with a respectable amount of experience is not going to consider investing their time and effort with Comair. There are better opportunities out there.

If you're considering Comair, do so with your eyes open.

 

[bvt1151]

V1,
I'm hearing exactly the opposite from sim instructors. The syllabus has been cut back and messed with for $$$ sake, so they're seeing some extra sim sessions that bring it back to the number of sims we used to have, but washout rate is the same as its been for years.

 

[imacdog]

Thanks for the clarification. I have a class date in Jan. Sort of a weird position to be in. I'm still waiting for them to call or email me saying classes have been cancelled. Either way, I hope everything works out the way the CMR pilots need it to. Good luck to you guys/gals and Merry Christmas.

I would not worry about your class being cancelled. We absolutely need more people due to being understaffed as well as the increase in projected flight hours in the Spring.

 

[plunger]

V1,
I'm hearing exactly the opposite from sim instructors. The syllabus has been cut back and messed with for $$$ sake, so they're seeing some extra sim sessions that bring it back to the number of sims we used to have, but washout rate is the same as its been for years.

What types of things wash people out? Just not getting the hang of the sim or what?

 

[plunger]

I have a class soming up and want to make sure I do the opposite of what ever these people are doing.

 

[txpilot1974]

I think you tough guys should carry out all your threats. Slow down, fly low, burn gas, strike, burn the place down. The sooner Delta drops you scumbags the better. I love to hear you all talk about your strike! You think that it was so big of you! It was dumb as sh$$! In the end you all are still going to take your paycuts, or take your pink slips! Rolling on the ground laughing my a$$ off! I hope Captain Ford enjoys the unemployment line!

What thought process leads you to say something like that?? Holy crap, what a tool!!

You should have listened to your mom when she told you to quit chasing the mosquito sprayer.

 

[stratus72]

Good luck to all you CA pilots. I was there walking the line during the first strike. This game just never seems to end. Stay strong!

For what it's worth, Merry Xmas.


Stratus