COMAIR vs NETJETS?

[Lumber Yak]

How do you like Netjets and the X now?

Hey Joel,

Just wondering what you thought of Netjets and the Citation X now that you are on the line. How does it compare to your job at Comair? Does the Citation X measure up to your expectations? Have you flown anywhere exotic in the X - what are your trips like?

Thanks and good luck!

 

[abenaki]

Hey Lumber Yak!

I thought this thread was long dead and buried.....I too, was at Comair.......thought I'd butt in and respond to your question.....

Prior to the strike, working for Comair management was simply awful......I left during the strike so I haven't got personal experience to relate to you, but after listening to friends still there, my conclusion is that it is BETTER there now. Not necessarily great, but certainly better. Schedules are better, the pay is better, the hotels are better...overall the quality of life is simply better for the Comair pilots and I don't know of a group of people who deserves it more than they do......They fought one hel-luva battle, and while it doesn't seem to be perceived as the vistory that they were hoping for, it was an improvement, no doubt.

Had the opportunity to visit some friends at Comair recently and attend some of the 25th anniversary stuff. My (biased) impression from that and conversations around the place was that not that much has changed about managements attitude towards the airline and its people. In my opinion, it continues to be a lot of lip service as to how great they are at the same time applying some of the same pressures as they did before the strike. But, that's just my limited perspective from an admittedly biased point of view.

I knew when I left that I could not work for such people again. And my visit reinforced that notion. That said, you won't find a better group of pilots and flight attendents anywhere. Just ask around about the unity of the pilot group during the strike and the support that they had from the fllight attendants.

Net Jets is a completely different thing. It's somewhat hard to compare. My pay is lower by a healthy chunk, but for me the lifestyle, the lack of commuting any longer, the treatment and support by management and the atmosphere of the place makes up for that (at least until our next contract!!!!). We stay in excellent hotels (and get to keep the points), get truly fine catered meals on the road (no more grabbing a burger at McD's), fly beautiful airplanes (they wash, wax, polish the birds about every two months) that are well-maintained.

The X is a hoot. Not as crisp in handling as the RJ with that 40 degree swept wing and artificial feel controls, but it goes! A lear will outclimbitoff the deck, but once the X hits about 30000', it's GONE. We generally climb at 1500-2000 FPM in the '30's at .82 Mach and ACCELERATING. I've done 1500FPM at .88 Mach.

I also like the variety of trips that we have. I've been as far west/north as Anchorage and as far east as St. Maarten and a lot of places inbetween.....It's fun stuff. You go to work, get your airplane, fly it around (empty on a lot of legs) and go home.

I love it. Not that Comair is a bad choice. If I were to go to a "regional" (I wish they'd get rid of THAT misnomer), I'd make Comair my first choice in terms of growth, stability, pilot and F/A group.....you can have their management...... I'll take NJA's.

Best wishes.....

 

[Lord Wakefield]

First a disclosure: When Comair went on strike, EJA hired a bunch of Comair pilots. After the strike, most returned taking Ce-750 and DA2000 types with them.

Personally, I think this was stupid but this was pre-911 and some can't get past the notion that EJA : isn't scheduled, isn't 121, isn't an airline, etc. Forget the fact that the dispatch release has a lot more info than any dot matrix printout I've ever seen an "airline pilot" pick up aat the counter.

If you come to EJA, I think you'll find the lifestyle a whole lot better than the Regionals. Retired/furloughed airline pilots have said the same (with the exception that They remind us that the pay sux)

At EJA you won't get tired from working hard. Even Ultra Check pilots only fly 40-50hrs/mo. What will wear you down is the way rest is currently/contractually interpreted as starting after duty ends rather than before briefed duty begins (see previous posts for the 2am wake up call after 10 hrs rest)

If you're hell bent on getting to the Majors, you may want to reconsider . Except for Delta's Plato Rynnes who put EJA management on notice early in 2001 that they intended to recruit agressively from EJA's ranks, most recruiters shy away. Theirs is a small world and despite what you'll hear about the training, dispatch, equipment.......it's still, to them: not scheduled, not 121, not an airline, it's just good ol' part 91 screwin' around. But what do they know? After all, how long did it take them to realise that military pilots weren't the only ones who knew how to fly?

Unfortunately, applicants don't make the rules; employers do.

 

[abenaki]

Just one correction/perception that I'd like to clear up, Lord Wakefield....

Yes, NJA did hire a bunch of us from Comair during the strike in '01. There is NO ONE, to my knowledge, that received a type rating of any kind who then went back to Comair. The time frame involved simply didn't allow that.

Now, I personally know of TWO that started sim training and decided to go back well before getting their type, but, I don't know of anyone who completed any portion of the training and returned to Comair.

According to the secretary in the Chief Pilots' Office at Comair, there were a totalof 47 Comair pilots who went to NJA and who stayed. I beg to differ with you that "most returned". To my knowledge, there were only two or three that had reported for training who decided to return. That does not mean that there weren't more, but, to say that "most returned" after getting types is highly inaccurate to my understanding.

Now, I WILL agree that there may have been quite a number who were OFFERED positions at NJA who ACCEPTED those position who did not show up at NJA for training as a result of the strike ending. Theer may have been quite a bunch of those guys, but I am unfamiliar with the numbers.

Just to throw it in the mix, I don't know of ANY former Comair pilot now at NJA who isn't VERY pleased to be here. And that list would include not only myself, but about 15 or more of my brethren with whom I have maintained some kind of contact since arriving here..
As stated above, I could not work for those s o b 's over there any longer and am very happy to be here under considerably better circumstances.

 

[jppt2000]

If you're hell bent on getting to the Majors, you may want to reconsider . Except for Delta's Plato Rynnes who put EJA management on notice early in 2001 that they intended to recruit agressively from EJA's ranks, most recruiters shy away. Theirs is a small world and despite what you'll hear about the training, dispatch, equipment.......it's still, to them: not scheduled, not 121, not an airline, it's just good ol' part 91 screwin' around.

Not that anyone's going anywhere soon, I've been told the opposite. Hmmm, SWA, UAL, DAL, and Jet Blue recruiters must have it all backwards Lord Wakefield.
I went to a recruiting seminar a couple of years ago, they all said they were very familiar with what Netjets, er EJA at that time, did.

I asked the same question about the "121" time. Really no big deal to them. UAL guy said "that's what we've got groundschool for".

Everyone at NetJets passes a 135 PIC check. We primarily operate part 91, but from time to time we fly 135.

Oh, everyone of them said they knew we were responsible for "everything" with the flight. Along with "121" stuff we're responsible for passenger service, catering, ground servicing, performance planning, essentially everything.

A retired airline pilot told me last trip, NetJets along with the other fractionals have become what the airlines were in the 1930's-50's.

Majors along with their "regionals"overnight have become the buslines of the 1960's and on.

"121" time, wow, I didn't know going back and forth to the hub could be so difficult.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

I've been told the opposite. Hmmm, SWA, UAL, DAL, and Jet Blue recruiters must have it all backwards Lord Wakefield.
I went to a recruiting seminar a couple of years ago, they all said they were very familiar with what Netjets, er EJA at that time, did.

I asked the same question about the "121" time. Really no big deal to them. UAL guy said "that's what we've got groundschool for".

A retired airline pilot told me last trip, NetJets along with the other fractionals have become what the airlines were in the 1930's-50's.

Majors along with their "regionals"overnight have become the buslines of the 1960's and on.

"121" time, wow, I didn't know going back and forth to the hub could be so difficult.

I think we disagree less than you think. I was just sharing the sentiment that I had heard for so long about EJA flying versus "real airline experience" (which could be something as far removed from flying a Boeing as a BE-1900C)

If you look at my post, you'll see that I acknowledged DAL as an exception (even mentioned Plato by name) BTW, I've heard the same about Jet Blue (a name even dumber than NetJets) and SWA. But they were only rumours when I heard them. As for for UAL, I was told to leave EJA and get some 121 time 4 years ago. I declined as I had just left a POS commuter flying turboprops to come to EJA. Now, I'm counseling UAL furloughees. But that was a long time ago comparatively speaking; EJA didn't have 1800 pilots and was only a blip on the radar. Most airline pilots would go: Who?

Back then, every time you airlined you had to explain that you weren't jumpseating. Folks asked: Going to work or going home? Then look puzzled when you said : "Nope, day 4 of 6."

Personally, I think any EJA pilot who wants to be an airline pilot would be well equipt. I know of no EJA pilot washing out at the majors. The reverse can't be said.

But, working at a commuter COULD get you hired by a major BEFORE you even met EJA minimum qualifications.

 

[fanman]

I have to laugh at some of you guys on here glorifying Net Jets versus the Regionals. While I have not worked at a "Fractional", I have worked corporate charter, followed by a regional, then a major, furloughed back to a corporate jet charter job.
I may be just me, but waiting for some jack ass who is already three hours late to show up the airport is really thrilling. Oh yeah, that Citation X really comes in handy, when you need to hurry up because you are already at duty hour fourteen. Dont forget the milk and papers! Can I get your bag sir?
As far as flying a "clunker CRJ", I get to fly a clunker "Hawker 800" around...What a piece of SH*T...Oh yeah I forgot, I get to go to those many different airports...When are you guys going to realize flying is flying....It comes down to quality of life, schedule, days off...Not knowing where I am off to, except when my days off start does not thrill me...Kinda like permanent reserve status. I am not bashing Net Jets...I think they are a great company, however, those who have not been exposed to having an airline type schedule, I think don't know what they are missing.
While I did get furloughed, I would not change a thing in my career. Right now I get 8 hard days off a month, plus 2 soft for the charter company I work for. Pay is comprable to Net Jets salary. I think scheduled 121 is the way to go, I would vote to go the Comair route.

 

[fanman]

Please excuse the above text mistakes...Forgot the grammer check!!!

 

[Diesel]

...Not knowing where I am off to, except when my days off start does not thrill me...Kinda like permanent reserve status

That pretty much sums up your view on this job. This job isn't for everyone. I see it every day, guys who thought this job was like the airlines. It's not it will never be the same. That's what makes us different.

I may be just me, but waiting for some jack ass who is already three hours late to show up the airport is really thrilling. Oh yeah, that Citation X really comes in handy, when you need to hurry up because you are already at duty hour fourteen.

Actually this isn't a problem. If the pax is 3 hours late he has to pay quite a large fee. This fee starts for every fifteen minutes he's late from the departure time. So they are about 90 percent on time. The PM won't even let you leave the chocks if you are going to come close to going past 14.

3 hrs late. There will be another crew to do the trip.

I am not bashing Net Jets

How is this not bashing NJA, FLOPS, FLEXJET, or CS?

While I have not worked at a "Fractional", I have worked corporate charter, followed by a regional, then a major, furloughed back to a corporate jet charter job.

These jobs aren't anything like a fractional. Not even close.

 

[gump88]

I have done BOTH.......over 5000 hours 121 time and recently completed my first year with NetJets. There is NO comparison. I will NEVER go back to scheduled 121. You guys are comparing beer and champagne!

My .02 worth!
gump