comair to buy aca dojets

[RJPilott]

33... and i'd hope if Delta takes those FRJ's that they bring back furloughed pilots (ie. friends).

 

[sleepy]

The DO Jet, what an excellent replacement for the E-120's that we just retired at ASA. The E-120 was a piece of poo, and so is the DO Jet.

The only reason I can see to give them to ASA is that our on-time performance is already dead last. The DO Jet can't really hurt us in that respect.

Give them to General Lee for the furloughed DAL pilots who can't find a job that pays more than $30K a year to fly.

 

[RJPilott]

if ANY of these rumors are true. Everyone at Comair and ASA should be polling for Delta furloughs to take FRJ slots short of refusing to fly the FRJ to get some brothers and sisters back in the air. Nuff said...

PS. Crew experience on the aircraft has alot to do with mx write-up's... just a bit of trivia... the FRJ is a fine machine when operated properly...

to answer your edit... some FRJ FO's make in excees of 45k per yr at ACA... not that im saying it is fair compensation.. DC-3 drivers got 50k per yr in the early days.... we all need to be thinking of the furloughed more often...

 

[sleepy]

if ANY of these rumors are true. Everyone at Comair and ASA should be polling for Delta furloughs to take FRJ slots short of refusing to fly the FRJ to get some brothers and sisters back in the air. Nuff said...

PS. Crew experience on the aircraft has alot to do with mx write-up's... just a bit of trivia... the FRJ is a fine machine when operated properly...

to answer your edit... some FRJ FO's make in excees of 45k per yr at ACA... not that im saying it is fair compensation.. DC-3 drivers got 50k per yr in the early days.... we all need to be thinking of the furloughed more often...

I doubt they would pay much at Comair or ASA. No with Chit around anyway.

 

[northeast]

PS. Crew experience on the aircraft has alot to do with mx write-up's... just a bit of trivina... the FRJ is a fine machine when operated properly...

Dude, just what are you saying? Have you any time in the equipment? Nice way to slam an entire pilot group while all along not being able to tell your a$$ from a hole in the wall. Some trivia for you:

1. Name another glass aircraft that has had complete and total screen failures, multiple times. Can you say bad 1VE panel? Do you have any idea what a 1VE panel is?

2. No flex T/O, mandated by the now defunct Fairchild Dornier Company. We're smoking motors left and right due to this. Our motors are a variant of a biz jet engine, not a military powerplant. Being REQUIRED to perform a TOGA takeoff everytime, is destroying these engines. But I guess you'll blame the inexperienced crews for this.

3. Boots. BF Goodrich designed a new, and improved, silver boot. It maked it look as if we have a hot wing. Too bad it's been poping left and right. That boot also wasn't designed for 'continuous duty'. Our boots are required to be operated in a continuous mode after the first trace of ice is detected. I hope that you aren't blaming the crews for following MANDATED procedures?

4. Bad generators. I guess an experienced crew will just ignore that an operate on a single gen.

5. Early on, the windsreens would shatter. It was a design defect. Care to blame the crews for that?

6. Let's not forget a mx dept that would rather 'Ops check good' an issue, rather than fix it.

6. What about ACA's 'self disclosure policy'. The company has never hesitated to hang a crew for a mx issue. We can do the 'right thing' while on line and ACA has no problem turning us into the FAA.

7. Does your perfect CRJ have FADEC? That d&%n thing causes more problems than it's worth.

I chalange you, Mr. Rocket Scientist, what could an EXPERIENCED CREW do to improve the DOJet's reliability?

 

[Patriot328]

Dude, just what are you saying? Have you any time in the equipment? Nice way to slam an entire pilot group while all along not being able to tell your a$$ from a hole in the wall. Some trivia for you:

1. Name another glass aircraft that has had complete and total screen failures, multiple times. Can you say bad 1VE panel? Do you have any idea what a 1VE panel is?

2. No flex T/O, mandated by the now defunct Fairchild Dornier Company. We're smoking motors left and right due to this. Our motors are a variant of a biz jet engine, not a military powerplant. Being REQUIRED to perform a TOGA takeoff everytime, is destroying these engines. But I guess you'll blame the inexperienced crews for this.

3. Boots. BF Goodrich designed a new, and improved, silver boot. It maked it look as if we have a hot wing. Too bad it's been poping left and right. That boot also wasn't designed for 'continuous duty'. Our boots are required to be operated in a continuous mode after the first trace of ice is detected. I hope that you aren't blaming the crews for following MANDATED procedures?

4. Bad generators. I guess an experienced crew will just ignore that an operate on a single gen.

5. Early on, the windsreens would shatter. It was a design defect. Care to blame the crews for that?

6. Let's not forget a mx dept that would rather 'Ops check good' an issue, rather than fix it.

6. What about ACA's 'self disclosure policy'. The company has never hesitated to hang a crew for a mx issue. We can do the 'right thing' while on line and ACA has no problem turning us into the FAA.

7. Does your perfect CRJ have FADEC? That d&%n thing causes more problems than it's worth.

I chalange you, Mr. Rocket Scientist, what could an EXPERIENCED CREW do to improve the DOJet's reliability?

FWIW there killer, rjpilott flies the Dornier and probably has more time in the dorkjet than about 80% of the pilot group.



I think you missed the point of his post. There are somethings in the dojet that get written up that can be taken care of at a later date or just fixed outright by the crew if they know how to do it.

I've heard guys calling in on mx freq for items that most of the more experienced pilots can take care of themselves.

 

[RJPilott]

FWIW there killer, rjpilott flies the Dornier and probably has more time in the dorkjet than about 80% of the pilot group.

i'd say 90%.. but who's counting .. 1VE? hmmm.. must be a typo for "I've"... now excuse me while i try to plug up the hole in my wall without confusing it for my a$$.. dont forget to make sure you write up all those NWS FAIL CAS's and abort for BLEED SOV FAIL

 

[Carl_Everett]

I think you missed the point of his post. There are somethings in the dojet that get written up that can be taken care of at a later date or just fixed outright by the crew if they know how to do it.

Please give an example of something the crew can fix. If I recall correctly, the FAA requires all discrepencies to be repaired by mechanics, or at least have printed guidance for the crew to fix it. You are sticking your head in the noose if you try doing MX on your own.

 

[RJPilott]

Thats cool Carl, while you're flying around by hand cause of an FGC Fail... i'll reboot... When you're delayed cause of a NWS Fail, we'll move the tiller. When you're waiting on MX for a NWS Power up fail, i'll press the little button on the panel and off we go... when you're delayed at an outstation to defer the coffee pots, some of us will be making our commute... shall i go on?

 

[northeast]

i'd say 90%.. but who's counting .. 1VE? hmmm.. must be a typo for "I've"... now excuse me while i try to plug up the hole in my wall without confusing it for my a$$.. dont forget to make sure you write up all those NWS FAIL CAS's and abort for BLEED SOV FAIL

RJPilott,

My bad. I thought you were slamming the entire group without anything to back it up. I've only seen one instance where the NWS FAIL CAS was written up. I also don't see any reason why the minor issues shouldn't be written up at a mx base. Ground a plane at an outstation for a busted light - hell no, write it up at a mx base ---- hell yes. That's what a mx base is for.

I've been looking at the new mx board on the crew portal for the past month or so. We consistantly have 4-6 DOJets down hard. You can't blame the inexperienced crews on that. This plane does have issues.

Peace

 

[RJPilott]

apology accepted

 

[zkmayo]

I agree with both of you. The FRJ is a maintenance pig overall, but there are a few folks flying it who dont seem to know when to use their head when troubleshooting a problem. There are no low timers flying this plane or any plane at ACA anymore, so this should be less and less of a problem.

In my opinion, if ACA can get rid of these airplanes without costing pilot jobs or losing a bunch of cash, they should by all means do it. these airplanes do a great job when everything is firing on all cylinders, but it is an absolute bear when its being tempermental.

good luck to all.

 

[SkywayFO]

This is a true statment. After last week everybody flying at ACA has been here at least a year. Well I really hope the Do's stay at ACA for awhile or I am SOL. I will get the F notice. I have flown both the Do and The RJ know and there is things I like about both. I flew the Do for 2 years, not at ACA. And you know what we didn't have near the problems, not saying we didn't have problems, just not as much as ACA. I think part of it is the cycles. At Skyway we used it as a wanabe RJ, MKE to BDL or RDU or IAD. At ACA CVG to DAY. You see the difference. Major abuse of the of the Velcro. God I miss the climb!!



"Mav, you got that number to that truck driving school? Truck Masters I think. I think I'm going to need that number!"

 

[BlueRidger]

In regards to the whole issue of anyone else taking the airplanes. There is a section in our contract that states if the planes are transferred then an appropriate number of pilots should be given the ability to go with them. Too lazy to look up the actual wording. Anyways, FWIW It is our contract and similarly if DALPA forces the dojet to leave ACA then ACA ALPA can force the new company to take our pilots.

 

[Patriot328]

Please give an example of something the crew can fix. If I recall correctly, the FAA requires all discrepencies to be repaired by mechanics, or at least have printed guidance for the crew to fix it. You are sticking your head in the noose if you try doing MX on your own.

Uhh.. yeah.. what he said..

on edit...
Allow me to eleborate... i shouldn't cycle a bleed to get it to open? or pehaps I shouldn't bump the power up for a sticky bleed.. or the nws pwr up fail?

how about a tcas fail... write that up too? or a gear light bulb at an outstation where contract mx will take 1 hr to get there?

I'd NEVER do anything against the FOM, but these planes would never, ever get off the ground if the crew didn't have a little common sense and initiative....

 

[rjcap]

I'd NEVER do anything against the FOM, but these planes would never, ever get off the ground if the crew didn't have a little common sense and initiative....

DITTO

 

[Treme]

silly

It's a rediculous discussion in any event.

ACA pilots were not BORN with a savvy knowledge of Dornier systems. Over the last several years of flying the airplane they developed a skill for handling its quirks.

They are no different than pilots for PSA, Skyway, Great Plains, Aspen Mountain Airways, etc.

Over time you learn the intracacies of the machine you fly.

Big deal.

ACA could sell those airplanes to Waffle House for all it matters. After flying them for a few months the pilots would learn the little tricks of the trade which are specific to FIDO.

 

[sleepy]

Re: silly

It's a rediculous discussion in any event.

ACA pilots were not BORN with a savvy knowledge of Dornier systems. Over the last several years of flying the airplane they developed a skill for handling its quirks.

They are no different than pilots for PSA, Skyway, Great Plains, Aspen Mountain Airways, etc.

Over time you learn the intracacies of the machine you fly.

Big deal.

ACA could sell those airplanes to Waffle House for all it matters. After flying them for a few months the pilots would learn the little tricks of the trade which are specific to FIDO.

You are quite right Treme. It would be the same way if ACA suddenly got the CR7's that ASA has been operating for over a year. It has it's share of quirks too.

 

[Carl_Everett]

Thats cool Carl, while you're flying around by hand cause of an FGC Fail... i'll reboot... When you're delayed cause of a NWS Fail, we'll move the tiller. When you're waiting on MX for a NWS Power up fail, i'll press the little button on the panel and off we go... when you're delayed at an outstation to defer the coffee pots, some of us will be making our commute... shall i go on?

And when you get violated and suspended for deliberate disregard of FAR's, I'll continue working. When someone takes a broken airplane from you with no idea what is wrong, and gets into serious trouble, I'm sure he will be waiting for you next time you come to work.

The only way MX can fix problems is if they are documented. Sure you can patch things up to fly, but lets get to the cause of the problem and fix it.

When the company gives specific directives for the pilots to follow for clearing nuissance messages, then I will do all of the things you do. Of course with people like you out there, the company will not be compelled to do so. Thanks a lot!

 

[Patriot328]

And when you get violated and suspended for deliberate disregard of FAR's, I'll continue working. When someone takes a broken airplane from you with no idea what is wrong, and gets into serious trouble, I'm sure he will be waiting for you next time you come to work.

The only way MX can fix problems is if they are documented. Sure you can patch things up to fly, but lets get to the cause of the problem and fix it.

When the company gives specific directives for the pilots to follow for clearing nuissance messages, then I will do all of the things you do. Of course with people like you out there, the company will not be compelled to do so. Thanks a lot!

"MX control.. yeah hey.. ship 428.. yeah the push crew left the nosewheel cocked just a little and we get this nws pwr up fail msg... i'm waiting for the control #"

"Hey MX control.. yeah see it's cold outside and the left gen didn't kick on at 55% like it 'spoze ta.. instead of bumping the power up on the engine and kicking it online, i'll need a mx control #.. thanx"

that darn bleed valve light is out... better go ahead and write it up at the outstation (nevermind the light is only switch position, it doesn't actually show the valve position)..

right...

 

[Carl_Everett]

"MX control.. yeah hey.. ship 428.. yeah the push crew left the nosewheel cocked just a little and we get this nws pwr up fail msg... i'm waiting for the control #"

"Hey MX control.. yeah see it's cold outside and the left gen didn't kick on at 55% like it 'spoze ta.. instead of bumping the power up on the engine and kicking it online, i'll need a mx control #.. thanx"

that darn bleed valve light is out... better go ahead and write it up at the outstation (nevermind the light is only switch position, it doesn't actually show the valve position)..

right...

You are missing the point. By writing those things up, you are forcing the company to deal with these little problems. If you keep writing these things up, the company will be compelled to fix the problem. Right now you are playing mechanic, and the company and FAA will hang you if something goes wrong.

Start writing the stuff up. Then you will see FOM guidance on leaving an outstation with a burned out lite. You will see a QRH section with pilot actions for annoyance messages. Then you will not have to be a cowboy to keep the 328 flying, and those new to the plane will not have to use the "force" to determine what should be written up or what should be ignored.

 

[StaySeated]

The "force"?

Is that what we are calling common sense today?

 

[Cappy]

Re: cappy

Now the day these message boards go to "facts only", then that's the day they will shut it down. Message Boards are filled with rumor, inuendo, and speculations.

Speaking of facts, maybe you could point to me where it was said ACAI will have the kind of money you are quoting. In everything I've read, the maximum they will have is close to $250M at the beginning of the 3Q/04.

As far as the 170 speculation, there have been many threads in the past 2 weeks on Chautauquas new TA, and the possibility of the 170 order. Will it happen? I don't know for sure, but you can't discount the possibility.

Incidently, if you care to go over to the ACAI board on CBS Marketwatch, you'll see a thread posted by Bob10e about the subject of Embraer being brought into negotiations by ACAI. Bob10e is a longtime AAI poster who has connections with Boeing. He has a high level of credibility, and it makes sense to me. If you don't buy it, so be it.

In any case don't let it keep you up at night.

According to Raymond James and Associates (investment research firm) ACA, should it continue to work as UEX and DelCon through April 2004, will have between $300 and $330 Million in cash. That does not assume that ACA will dip into this before commencing operations to pay for some new costs. Even if ACA only has $250 mil by then it really doesn't matter, I was just sharing factual information based on those who are in a position to provide such.

I don't believe that many of the threads on this site are of much value except the interview section.

So some guy named Bob10e posted something on a public website and it's truth? To say that someone has a "connection" to Boeing really doesn't mean anything unless the connection is clear and the poster is known by his real name and not a pseudo.

Chow

 

[lowecur]

cappy

Now as far as I know, the quote of $250M came from the CEO for ACAI. I think he has a better handle on things than Raymond James.

Try and lighten up a bit, supposition is all apart of the board. Why I even believe that $300M is possible, even if it comes from an analyst who is guessing. If pax revenue picks up the next 3 Q, I really think it's doable.

I really don't believe most posters would use anything other than a psuedo moniker. There are guys on these boards with testosterone coming out their arz, and a few would be glad to find out where one of us lives.

 

[acaTerry]

to answer your edit... some FRJ FO's make in excees of 45k per yr at ACA

AT LEAST. Heck, I made well more than that as a J41 CAptain over 4.

Oops....forget it, I thought you were talking about Captains....

 

[Carl_Everett]

Re: The "force"?

Is that what we are calling common sense today?

No it is when you approach the borderline of common sense and neglegent.

For example the ACA circuit breaker policy is quite strict. It says a pilot can only trip/reset a breaker if it is specifed in the QRH or MEL. If the GPS goes out would you trip the breaker to fix it? (It usually works) Would you ignore it since you really don't need it and write it up the the MX base? Would you do this on a line check or FAA inspection? Why/Why not? How about a burned out NAV light? Would you write it up or wait until you get to the MX base? Would you do it with FAA on the ramp? Why/Why not?

I am all for common sense. The current system doesn't allow for it. If you exercise common sense and something bad happens, you get hung. The FAA and company will not back your actions. That is why they put that stuff in the procedures, to cover their butts. Its on your back if something goes wrong. The only way to fix this: Write everything up by the book. When delays rise due to it, the company will either allow common sense, or write common sense procedures into the manual.