Comair Strike Vote???

[JustaNumber]

I just heard a rumor that in addition to the ASA pilots, the Comair pilots are getting ready to take a strike vote soon. Has anyone else heard anything similar?

In my personal opinion, the possibility of a Comair strike bears closer watching than a DALPA walkout. When it comes to the 11th hour (or is it 7th hour?), I believe the Delta pilots will abide by Judge Judy’s decision, whatever it may be, as they have the most to lose from shutting down Delta. The Comair pilots, on the other hand, could work at any other regional for better than the proposed pay rates, and so (other than the loss of seniority, which isn’t worth nearly as much as it once was at Comair anymore) would have no problem walking away. A basic law of economics says that the group receiving the lowest compensation in any industry (or in this case the lowest proposed compensation) has the greatest bargaining power, and the group receiving the highest compensation has the least bargaining power.

So I believe if the Comair pilots have their contract voided, they WILL walk. How long could Delta survive a Comair strike this time around? Probably not 89 days.

It’s interesting that the annual amount of pilot savings that Delta is looking for from the Comair pilots is very close to the amount of money lost per day in the last strike. The only reason Delta would allow a strike would be to set another precedent, that could/would influence the ASA negotiations. But with LM gone, are they still that hardheaded that they would spite the shareholders in the name of precedent? Do you think Delta will fold on this one? For the industry’s sake, lets all hope so.

 

[amcnd]

Why would Delta care about ASA's contract anymore? SkyWest owns them now.

 

[Launchpad]

I don't think Delta could survive a day without Comair.


So I believe if the Comair pilots have their contract voided, they WILL walk. How long could Delta survive a Comair strike this time around? Probably not 89 days.

 

[JustaNumber]

Okay, good point. Delta certainly has an interest in the downward pressure on all pilot contracts within the Delta family, but I guess in the end, they're primarily concerned with those of Comair and Delta mainline. Still not good for any of us.

 

[Launchpad]

Okay, good point. Delta certainly has an interest in the downward pressure on all pilot contracts within the Delta family, but I guess in the end, they're primarily concerned with those of Comair and Delta mainline. Still not good for any of us.

You missed the sarcasm, and to add on...... I don't think Delta gives a rats azz about anyone at Delta or Comair. The "Family" is long gone-

Peace out-

 

[RichO]

You know, someone needs to take one for the team.......UAL and USAir should have been allowed to fold.....the market is naturally self correcting unless compaines (GE) and the Gov step in and screw it up...that is why we find ourselves in the situation we're in......someone needs to go under....

 

[Plug]

Actually, an ASA strike could be the final nail in the DAL coffin. ASA is huge for DAL in ATL (DAL's bread & butter hub) and a strike would have a disasterous affect on DAL's bottom line. Food for thought!

 

["GO AROUND"]

Delta should be concerned with any interuption in service from anyone flying for DAL.

 

[FDJ2]

I just heard a rumor that in addition to the ASA pilots, the Comair pilots are getting ready to take a strike vote soon.

Are the CMR pilots in a section 1113 hearing? If not, then how could they strike if they still have a contract negotiated under the RLA? A strike vote might seem a little premature at this point, although I have no doubt that they will strike if their contract is rejected.

 

[flaps30]

strike?

Nobody is gonna strike no mater what happens with their contract. Idle threat and Delta mgnt knows it.

 

[makersmarc]

Talk of a strike vote at CMR is very premature, though we'll be ready if/when the time comes.

 

[flaps30]

no way....

Comair will not strike, never. You just lost over 25% of your flying, the other 75% could just as easily be flown by Republic or Mesa. Ask the NW mechs if it worked ? You can and will be replaced.

 

[fugghedabowdit]

Comair will not strike, never. You just lost over 25% of your flying, the other 75% could just as easily be flown by Republic or Mesa. Ask the NW mechs if it worked ? You can and will be replaced.

Overnight? Will Delta survive until that all happens? Will Republic and Mesa fly struck routes? Does Delta want the negative press? It may be our last best hope, and if it ultimately comes down to this, there is nothing left here anyway. Thats the difference between here and mainline, anyone can go get another 30-50K a year job with crappy health care and no retirement, and be home every night. At mainline, the income is much harder to replace.

BTW, we didn't just lose 25% of our flying. We lost 25% of CVG, which is about 8% of our flying.

 

[DAL737FO]

Here is an honest question since I don't know. We all know what the definition of struck work is by union definition. How does that bear with a company that is not union? For instance XYZ company goes on strike at ABC hub. Also at ABC hub there is MNO company that is non union and has over lapping routes to company XYZ. Since there is no union at MNO company would it be considered struck work or just taking advantage of the plight of another company? I know that some pilots at some 135 operators were talking about not flying NetJets passengers if the NetJets pilots went on strike, however I think that they wouldn't have a leg to stand on when they got fired for refusing a trip.

 

[FDJ2]

Nobody is gonna strike no mater what happens with their contract. Idle threat and Delta mgnt knows it.

Can you name an ALPA carrier that hasn't struck when its contract was rejected?

 

[saab fixr]

Im surprised that you folks dont think for a moment that management is already preparing for such a strike? Much like the dispute between ACA and united When are you all going to learn your going to lose that battle. To say that delta wont survive is not only a foolish statment but one that is not well thought out !! There are many people that would step in and take your jobs Can you say GO jets and others? No one is that important anymore to any company its all about the money !!

 

[OCP]

Im surprised that you folks dont think for a moment that management is already preparing for such a strike? Much like the dispute between ACA and united When are you all going to learn your going to lose that battle. To say that delta wont survive is not only a foolish statment but one that is not well thought out !! There are many people that would step in and take your jobs Can you say GJs and others? No one is that important anymore to any company its all about the money !!

Really... Don't know if you've seen ATL lately, but if ASA stopped flying one day Delta would grind to a near halt that same day. 80 % of ASA passengers connect to a Delta aircraft.

 

[CFIT]

The most lethal weapon a union has is to strike.

It's the only weapon it's had since the dawn of time.

Don't you think management has figured this out by now?

 

[cmrflyer]

Well they can have all the $25000 a year jobs they want, Comair will strike if we get a chance, this job is worth more than the sh!tty pay that some of the new pilots at DCI are prepared to do it for. You can have it.
So long suckers, just remember that are a lot of eager idiots at the flight schools you just left that will do "your" job for less than you.
Don't get to use to your rented apartment, you may soon have to live out of your car if you keep on lowering that bar.

 

[BenderGonzales]

You guys won't strike.

When push comes to shove mortgages have to be paid, children have to be fed.

Big talk is easy -- action is a little more tricky.

We're not in a pre-09/11 world anymore. A strike today would have a fraction of the support that it did a few years ago. You will be promptly replaced by a mix of the remaining Delta Connection feeders and maybe a few new ones. (UAL's feed in Dulles suffered only briefly with the loss of ACA).

Beating your chest on a message board is one thing. Feeding your family is quite another. If you think you can find a better job, then quit and give it a shot. I have a feeling you're going to discover what the furloughees have known now since 2001... It's a lousy environment for job hunting.

Tough it up. The rest of the industry suffered after 09/11. You were foolish if you believed that you were immune.

 

[cmrflyer]

OK Bender (by the way, the irony of the name is the fact that bender in most english speaking part of the world means homo).
You sound very similar to the morons (mgt) who said we wouldn't strike back in 2001, do you really think that the same people who gave up three months pay to improve their lives (and yours) are now going to roll over and take it in the arse because we now have mortgages and families, guess what, while you were sat in that 152 picking your nose we already had those mortgages and families, we still went on strike for what we beleived in. Don't judge us on what you would do.
The support you talk of was a massive $640 every two weeks before tax, that might sound like a lot to most DCI pilots, but for people who live in reality it is nothing. Half what the eastern pilots got ten years earlier. Yes we a sh!t scared, run, run MESA are coming. Grow up, one day you may want a salary you can live on, maybe even buy a car and not have to get your folks to drop you off at the airport.
You just watch, if Delta don't do it we will if we get the chance. You can pick at the crumbs that are left, you might enjoy that, you are after all very good at that.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Buddy, i am furloughed from USAir along with 2000 of my peers.

Chances are you were melting crayons when I started flying in this industry.

I don't think your group will try it again. If i'm wrong i'll be the first to say so.

 

[cmrflyer]

Wow, bet you wish you were a 170 pilot. That would be a perfect move buddy.
You have no knowledge of Comair or its people and how they feel about the company screwing us and give companies like CHQ all the flying just so their mgt can give the profits to us airways.
It sucks you are out of work, but it is not the same as seeing your parent company giving away flying to non alpa union airlines. It is sad when i see people who have been hear for twenty years , who see their job (and mine) being given away to some dude who has been out of flight school for two weeks. Even sadder is seeing our buddies at Delta signing deals with mgt to give flying away to none alpa pilot groups. NICE
We will walk, we have nothing to lose, worst comes to worst, we could get a job with MESA or CHQ, by the way,Comair mgt is telling us we have to take less than mesa get, so why would we stay here, washing windsheild at the traffic lights pays better.
So long buddy know everything.

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

communist air er, i mean comairs days are numbered. strike or not the pilot group should make some newplans. delta will soon sell off comair to some other regional. republic or mesa are possiblities. the comair pilots will be simply stapled to bottom of some senority list and given a united sized pay cut.

just my opinion.

 

[incubus]

gojjet pilots will be right there to take any strike breaking work.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

comairs days are numbered

This unfortunate assessment is real, nonetheless sad. Comair has been ‘trapped’ in a major power play in which there is no way out. Allow me to explain.

No one doubts or discredits what RJ pilots ‘should’ make, and CMR pilots did raise the bar back in 2001. The problem is no one went with them (for various reasons that would take a book to cover). Regardless, they found themselves standing alone. When Main Line Management realized in late 2002/early 2003 that this industry trend toward the toilet wasn’t going to stop; they naturally set their eyes on ALL available means of cash to survive. In the DAL case, having owned ASA and CMR together, they began shopping for a buyer. ASA was a hard enough sell, but they convinced Skywest to do it; with their southern laidback style of passive resistance Skywest management will attempt new ground as it tries to assimilate ASA pilots into a “management friendly” company (I still bet DAL had to coherence them into buying ASA, buts that another post). The Comair Pilot group has a different reputation within the business. The strike of 2001 was a major eye opener for regional airline management, much less DAL management. Had 9/11 not happened, 2002 was shaping up for what could have been the big push to level the bar at the regional level, and JC Lawson/CMR/ALPA was getting ready for the fight. That changed overnight, but CMR’s new attitude didn’t. No one wants to touch them with a ten foot pole. The CMR MEC/pilot group has shot more cannons off at ALPA National, DAL Pilots, DAL management, CMR management and the Republican Party than I can remember. Their viewed as a wild-eyed band of knuckle heads in most circles.

Now the trap: CMR most likely makes money on their operating model, DAL looses money, and it is like paying your kid to wash your own car for 50 bucks when the car wash will do it for 40. No matter how low the wage in which CMR pilots agree to work, it doesn’t matter at this point, the bar has been set by Shuttle America and others. CMR got left holding the bag, while all the others ran like crazy. And all DAL wants is the cash. The entire bankruptcy issue is nothing more than a point of opportunity for DAL and CMR management. I look to see CMR take a middle of the road contract either through negotiations, or through a Judge imposed ruling. Once this change to the contract is in place, its time to get serious about selling it. There is no other choice for CMR. If the airline survives, it will be nothing more than what it now, a regional airline. Of course, if CMR pilots did go on strike after having their contract abrogated; that would spell the end of CMR overnight. DAL is in no position to play those games anymore. And unfortunately, there are too many ‘bottom feeders’ standing by.

 

[cmrflyer]

Jet dreamer, what are you goin on about, communist air? Still a little pissed you didn't get hired there? Ended up at CHQ did you? Its real name is clown air or comedy air, but communist air, that is sad, considering they get paid alot more than any other DCI carrier, capitalism is all about money, something Comair pilots like getting for doing their job, as opposed to the other half priced whores in DCI.
What makes me really sick is when a Freedumb guy walks into Comair ops in Orlando and say "Hi guys, hows it going", you just what to say "fukking great thanks to you retard", but then you remember that the guy is clueless and has no idea about the industry he is destroying from the bottom up, ask the Delta guys, they are the top and they are being told the are too expensive.
You erode the bottom and the top will fall. Well done boys the top is falling nicely, lets all climb on the bottom and hope to god no one else tries to go any lower. Now that is a real dream.
Communist air...., you retard.

 

[Jet_Dreamer]

heard 'communist air' mentioned during a friendly conversation. anyways, like i said it was my opinion. this is america,right? no i am not a f8 guy. and no i DO not want to work for clown air. way to far east.

besides, i am sure comair wont be around much longer. they just dont fit the mold for regional airlines. pilots make more than anyone else in 50 seat aircraft and delta is in deep dodo. wake up, and smell the coffee.

 

[BenderGonzales]

It's pretty easy to see the direction Comair is going. Just take a look at the leadership. Over the last year you've lost an F/O rep...and F/O rep candidate, and a Captain rep (and LEC chairman).

When the even the rats start to abandon the ship...

(not that those guys are "rats", but you get the idea)

 

[mac36]

but then you remember that the guy is clueless and has no idea about the industry he is destroying from the bottom up, ask the Delta guys, they are the top and they are being told the are too expensive.
You erode the bottom and the top will fall. Well done boys the top is falling nicely, lets all climb on the bottom and hope to god no one else tries to go any lower. Now that is a real dream.
Communist air...., you retard.

The Comair guys showed a great deal of resolve in striking to get the best contract among the regionals. They are to be commended.

There is, indeed, a race to the bottom taking place industry wide.

BUT, who was it that brought us "buy a job for $10,000"? Created an "academy" where a mid-life crisis could take a guy from a cubicle to the right seat of a CRJ in a matter of months?

Make no mistake about it, the "erosion" began when progressively larger jets began being flown by contractors.

When mainline pilots negotiated to allow same.

There is a lot of dirt on many hands in this debate.