Word is Radamacher offered a deal similar to the UAL/Skywest deal for furloughed DALPA pilots in exchange for the CRJ 700. DAL offered it to DALPA and was told to shove it. I guess we're the bad guys! DALPA doesn't care about it's own furloughee's. The talk big, but they (furloughee's) are a bargaining chip like ASA/Comair.
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General, who elected the Delta MEC to representa ASA and Comair pilots? Particularly when it comes to pay cuts? This does demonstrate the issue the RJDC is flighting for REPRESENTATION. You Delta Pilots wanted no part of us and your MEC Chairman lied to keep up separate, but now that the Delta pilots think they can offset some of their pay cuts by securing concessions from other groups, we are all on the same team again.General Lee said:ASACAP,
So, Comair has the highest pay in the regionals. Should they take a major cut also just like we should since we are the highest paid mainline? I am not saying that the cuts should be equal---but everyone who has a stake in this job should make a sacrifice.
Bye Bye--General Lee
[/B]
I will not re hash all the old arguements about how ASA and Comair are profitable. Everyone knows it.
What I will add is that there were rumors of the Delta MEC's tactics coming out of the RJDC 8 months ago and then I did not believe it. Dan Ford was right - just so far ahead of his time that it is hard to believe, but history always comes around to show the correctness of his reasoning.
That having been said, if his track record remains on track, ALPA should settle this and lasso that runaway MEC of yours, pronto! Dan Ford for ALPA President! Lord knows we need some leadership at National.
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FlyComAirJets
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Three years ago the Delta MEC strenuously opposed the PID between mainline and ASA/Comar because it was convenient for them to say we were separate companies on any number of minute reasons.
Now in a time of prolonged economic downturn, they say, hey, we are all one company after all and so every employee group should share in the paycuts ... because it is convenient .
Hypocricy has no bounds here.
Now in a time of prolonged economic downturn, they say, hey, we are all one company after all and so every employee group should share in the paycuts ... because it is convenient .
Hypocricy has no bounds here.
General Lee
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Man alive! I got responses from all of the regulars. I will try to respond to each:
Afellowaviator,
You sir, don't like me, and it shows. I am not trying to be "full of myself." I am trying to give you a point of view---or an opinion---and I am not trying to make anyone mad. Just because you don't like my conclusions or my own opinions---you like to tell me to "go away." That's not going to happen, and you know it. I am not the one handing down your paycut, or anyone's paycut. I really don't know what is going on behind closed doors. I respect your opinion on this opinion board, so why don't you return the favor?
Comrcap,
Word is that there was no "word is." How do we know that happened? A serious rumor that we heard was that the 100 seater order just went to "purchasing." Maybe when we order some 100 seaters you will get a larger 70 seat order. You can't expect us to sit by and watch you grow huge with 1060 of our guys on the street---and the "offer" by Randy is moot now because most of our furloughs would not want to go to Comair for "CRM" reasons. That really really made us mad---you have no idea. Mention it in the ATL crew lounge and you should see the responses. Unfortunately, that is how it is. You guys are chomping at the bit for new expansion--even after you have grown huge in the last 2 years. Now you see Chataqua growing--and you are getting nervous. Remember--this is my opinion and I have nothing to do with this.
Fins,
We so not represent you, but our contract, which Leo signed, gives you a "road map" to follow. Leo, who is in charge, signed it. That is reality. As far as the RJDC goes, Dalpa just received a letter from Ford and Cooksey that seemed a little desperate. Think about it, your suit is against ALPA---not Dalpa. We could actually split from ALPA (along with 4 or 5 other majors), leave it as a former shell that would go bankrupt, and create our own union, which still has a contract with Delta. That way, you can sue and really get nothing. Then the union that does represent you would have little funds to protect you, and our new union would get our dues and fight for us, along with the 4 or 5 other majors. Is that what you want?
Sleepy,
I've got one. Non rev seating. Your ASA seniority can bump junior Delta pilots out of first class. Welcome to our family.
Flycomairjets,
Whether you choose to or not believe that you are part of this corporation is up to you. We all receive pay from the same unit.
If your negotiators choose to participate, great. IF they do not, I bet your growth will go to anothe DCI carrier, and that won't be our fault---it will be yours. Our management team probably remembers your strike and will probably award new flying to Chataqua and others---and that isn't Dalpa's fault. Even if we had taken the ridiculous 31% pay cut that management was asking, they probably would still come after you guys because you too make higher than normal wages between you and your peers. That is the truth.
Thanks guys!!
Bye Bye--General Lee 
Afellowaviator,
You sir, don't like me, and it shows. I am not trying to be "full of myself." I am trying to give you a point of view---or an opinion---and I am not trying to make anyone mad. Just because you don't like my conclusions or my own opinions---you like to tell me to "go away." That's not going to happen, and you know it. I am not the one handing down your paycut, or anyone's paycut. I really don't know what is going on behind closed doors. I respect your opinion on this opinion board, so why don't you return the favor?
Comrcap,
Word is that there was no "word is." How do we know that happened? A serious rumor that we heard was that the 100 seater order just went to "purchasing." Maybe when we order some 100 seaters you will get a larger 70 seat order. You can't expect us to sit by and watch you grow huge with 1060 of our guys on the street---and the "offer" by Randy is moot now because most of our furloughs would not want to go to Comair for "CRM" reasons. That really really made us mad---you have no idea. Mention it in the ATL crew lounge and you should see the responses. Unfortunately, that is how it is. You guys are chomping at the bit for new expansion--even after you have grown huge in the last 2 years. Now you see Chataqua growing--and you are getting nervous. Remember--this is my opinion and I have nothing to do with this.
Fins,
We so not represent you, but our contract, which Leo signed, gives you a "road map" to follow. Leo, who is in charge, signed it. That is reality. As far as the RJDC goes, Dalpa just received a letter from Ford and Cooksey that seemed a little desperate. Think about it, your suit is against ALPA---not Dalpa. We could actually split from ALPA (along with 4 or 5 other majors), leave it as a former shell that would go bankrupt, and create our own union, which still has a contract with Delta. That way, you can sue and really get nothing. Then the union that does represent you would have little funds to protect you, and our new union would get our dues and fight for us, along with the 4 or 5 other majors. Is that what you want?
Sleepy,
I've got one. Non rev seating. Your ASA seniority can bump junior Delta pilots out of first class. Welcome to our family.
Flycomairjets,
Whether you choose to or not believe that you are part of this corporation is up to you. We all receive pay from the same unit.
If your negotiators choose to participate, great. IF they do not, I bet your growth will go to anothe DCI carrier, and that won't be our fault---it will be yours. Our management team probably remembers your strike and will probably award new flying to Chataqua and others---and that isn't Dalpa's fault. Even if we had taken the ridiculous 31% pay cut that management was asking, they probably would still come after you guys because you too make higher than normal wages between you and your peers. That is the truth.
Thanks guys!!
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee
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FlyComAirJets
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My point, which apparently eludes you GeeLee, is that the argument that we are all one company seems to vary with the prevailing attitude of your MEC. One day, we are separate companies like the aforementioned PID or on pass bennies (which you guys sued and lost over). On another, we are the same company when management seeks paycuts.
What I choose to believe is beside the point. Indeed, I have always thought we were one company.
What your MEC thinks, well, which way is the wind blowing today?
What I choose to believe is beside the point. Indeed, I have always thought we were one company.
What your MEC thinks, well, which way is the wind blowing today?
PBRstreetgang
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Wake up,
Divide and conquer, we are all acting as managment tools by this silly infighting.
Some one is gonna have to offer the olive branch or this whole mess will slide into Pay-for -Training, food stamps and goverment cheese for all.
General, managment is eyeing your slice of the pie and are working 24/7 to figger a way to bring your paycheck inline with the DCI carriers pilots.
DCI pilots, the infighting we all are engaged in is preventing US from mainline pay, or something closer to it.
You ask how do I know this, Mainline 1060 pilots on the street and how much are they asking for? 31%. General your pie has already shrunk, DCI guys Comair guys especially when did you say your Delta interview was scheduled for? I guess your Delta mainline hire date will be, what the day after never.
WAKE UP
PBR
Divide and conquer, we are all acting as managment tools by this silly infighting.
Some one is gonna have to offer the olive branch or this whole mess will slide into Pay-for -Training, food stamps and goverment cheese for all.
General, managment is eyeing your slice of the pie and are working 24/7 to figger a way to bring your paycheck inline with the DCI carriers pilots.
DCI pilots, the infighting we all are engaged in is preventing US from mainline pay, or something closer to it.
You ask how do I know this, Mainline 1060 pilots on the street and how much are they asking for? 31%. General your pie has already shrunk, DCI guys Comair guys especially when did you say your Delta interview was scheduled for? I guess your Delta mainline hire date will be, what the day after never.
WAKE UP
PBR
Bill Mostellar
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FlyComAirJets
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The outcome of the grievance is, you lost.
Remember the grievance over Comair doing shuttle flying in the spring of 1999? Perhaps you were one of the pilots informational picketing outside the terminals handing out leaflets to passengers.
You lost that one, too.
Proud family member for over a third of a decade.
Remember the grievance over Comair doing shuttle flying in the spring of 1999? Perhaps you were one of the pilots informational picketing outside the terminals handing out leaflets to passengers.
You lost that one, too.
Proud family member for over a third of a decade.
General Lee
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Sleepy,
I am sorry you don't feel the love. There is not much I alone can do but say that hopefully you, along with other ASA pilots, will get preferrential interviews at Delta and then you know you will get pay increases. That is really how it is. You will get paid more if you go to mainline. I am not one of those cocky pilots that puts down the regional guys---primarily because I was there too. I was not an F-15 guy with an attitude.
Flycomairjets,
I get your point, I do. I don't really see it that way, but then again I am not behind closed doors with him. Buergey is finishing his term soon and then our lead negotiator for the C2K contract will take over. Maybe he will have a different stance---but he is the one who negotiated the scope clause. I know you guys want to grow, and we just want to sustain what we have atleast. I still think that another order of 70 seaters will eventually be on the way---but Delta will be the one who assigns where they go. They might ask you to take some sort of cut to get those new ones--and then you can't blame that on us. Your negotiators will have to get you those jets after Dalpa signs off on them--and that probably will eventually happen. In the mean time Chataqua is growing.....Also, you are right about the Shuttle flying. Recently the Comair RJs have been put on STBY service for overbooking passengers too. But, after some thought about customer wants and needs---they just added STBY lines back to Delta Shuttle pilots. If our planes are full and extra passengers expect a larger 737---they should get it. Those passengers pay the highest fare and expect larger airplanes.
PBR,
Our paychecks will always be larger than DCI's--and I am not bragging. They will not be able to do that(get closer to DCI's) without Chap 11, and they cannot just go into Chap 11 without being sued by every stock holder. Our CFO has said that we are far from it, and everything is slowly getting better. Managment is actually trying to get concessions now before things get a lot better---they are running out of time. We know that we have a debt problem looming, and we will address that with some sort of temporary pay cuts shortly. And, I know our pie has gotten smaller---the percentages have gone up in DCI's favor lately--and that is why we are trying to atleast sustain what we have. We have to keep a certain amount of higher paying jobs, or those jobs will be lost forever. As those percentages rise, so do the lower paying jobs. I want everyone to get higher paying jobs---but that is getting harder and harder all of the time.
Bye Bye--General Lee
I am sorry you don't feel the love. There is not much I alone can do but say that hopefully you, along with other ASA pilots, will get preferrential interviews at Delta and then you know you will get pay increases. That is really how it is. You will get paid more if you go to mainline. I am not one of those cocky pilots that puts down the regional guys---primarily because I was there too. I was not an F-15 guy with an attitude.
Flycomairjets,
I get your point, I do. I don't really see it that way, but then again I am not behind closed doors with him. Buergey is finishing his term soon and then our lead negotiator for the C2K contract will take over. Maybe he will have a different stance---but he is the one who negotiated the scope clause. I know you guys want to grow, and we just want to sustain what we have atleast. I still think that another order of 70 seaters will eventually be on the way---but Delta will be the one who assigns where they go. They might ask you to take some sort of cut to get those new ones--and then you can't blame that on us. Your negotiators will have to get you those jets after Dalpa signs off on them--and that probably will eventually happen. In the mean time Chataqua is growing.....Also, you are right about the Shuttle flying. Recently the Comair RJs have been put on STBY service for overbooking passengers too. But, after some thought about customer wants and needs---they just added STBY lines back to Delta Shuttle pilots. If our planes are full and extra passengers expect a larger 737---they should get it. Those passengers pay the highest fare and expect larger airplanes.
PBR,
Our paychecks will always be larger than DCI's--and I am not bragging. They will not be able to do that(get closer to DCI's) without Chap 11, and they cannot just go into Chap 11 without being sued by every stock holder. Our CFO has said that we are far from it, and everything is slowly getting better. Managment is actually trying to get concessions now before things get a lot better---they are running out of time. We know that we have a debt problem looming, and we will address that with some sort of temporary pay cuts shortly. And, I know our pie has gotten smaller---the percentages have gone up in DCI's favor lately--and that is why we are trying to atleast sustain what we have. We have to keep a certain amount of higher paying jobs, or those jobs will be lost forever. As those percentages rise, so do the lower paying jobs. I want everyone to get higher paying jobs---but that is getting harder and harder all of the time.
Bye Bye--General Lee
sidseal
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General Lee said:
Yep, I forget ASA guys are the only ones that will be able to move higher because Delta is and will be the only game in town. Jeez...I better just quit now since I stand no chance of going anywhere. I guess all the airlines will never hire again. Ya know Gen, Delta has never even been on my list. Please, please, for the sake of everyone's mental health, please get off this "Comair will never go to Delta" crap. Okay, so we are not welcome at Delta. Hmmm, what were you saying about being part of the family?
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