Comair MEC resolution

InclusiveScope

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Comair Master Executive Council
MEC Meeting - Erlanger, KY
May 14-15, 2002



SUBJECT:

Comair MEC support for the USAirways wholly owned and code sharing pilots.


SOURCE:

J.C. Lawson, MEC Chairman


BACKGROUND INFORMATION:

WHEREAS the USAirways wholly owned and domestic code share carriers have borne the brunt of the most restrictive scope language in the industry, and

WHEREAS the pilots of these airlines, because of restrictive scope language, have been placed in the untenable position of negotiating with their respective managements and in competition with one another to operate modern small jet technology, and

WHEREAS, most recently, the mainline MEC has boldly drafted language in "Letter 81" proposing to annex the small jets they previously considered undesirable, without consideration for Association unity, seniority list integration, and the future, growth, and welfare of their wholly owned and domestic code sharing partners, and

WHEREAS the creation of an alter-ego airline, against ALPA's long-standing policy, is offered as the solution to this problem.


RESOLUTION:

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED the Comair MEC supports, to the fullest extent, the pilots of the USAirways wholly owned and domestic code share carriers in their quest for small jet airframes to keep their companies viable, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Comair MEC supports and encourages the pilots of these airlines to resist concessions and hold the line on current contractual Agreements, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Comair MEC encourages the ALPA leaderships of these airlines to continue to develop unified strategies to combat and defeat whipsaw efforts from every direction, internal and external, including direct whipsaw generated by the mainline MEC "Letter 81", and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Comair MEC will pursue with it's management preferential hiring for both those recently terminated pilots and any possible future pilot terminations from these wholly owned and domestic code share carriers.
 

Anaconda

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Source?

where did you get that? i couldn't find it on the OH ALPA website...
 

trainerjet

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Nobody could be peeing down your back if you weren't standing there letting them.
 

becket

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Isn't it funny how the Comair pilots didn't have any trouble at all cashing my check when they went on strike. I seem to remember funding their job action for about three months. I see, the only pilots who should be able to protect themselves and their livelyhood are rj pilots. Clearly, the rj pilots are the only ones under attack. Nevermind the fact that US Airways managment has sold nearly 100 mainline aircraft, (which BTW is in direct violation of our contract in about 15 sections.) with the very public intention of REPLACING THEM ALL with regional jets with commuter carriers. Thank God for Scope. Will the Comair pilots be sending my a check to supplement what will be my very long furlough from US Airways...of course not. It's the mainline pilots who owe everything to the commuter pilots. It's a one way street. Here's my Proposal

WHEREAS Comair et.al could care less how many mainline pilots jobs they replace, and

WHEREAS many of these pilots are the same ones who pulled out their check books a few years ago and actually bought their jobs and then were shocked to discover that managment didn't have any resepect for them or what they thought they should earn because they clearly demonstrated zero consideration to job quality when they penned their 10,000 dollar checks for training at Comair. and

WHEREAS Comair pilots went on strike to try in vain to reverse the damage that their own pilots have caused the profession, and

WHEREAS the other ALPA pilots, most of whom didn't pay for training, got the distinct privilege of funding their mission of healing self inflicted wounds:


THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that ALL Comair Pilots agree to refund all monies previously paid by all furloughed ALPA pilots whose jobs have been replaced, in total violation of their ALPA contract, by wholly owned operators of RJ's.
 

FamilyMan

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Dude,

Becket you need to get a life. Could you be anymore negative, I think not. This is one pilot supporting another pilot.

The one thing I have learned from Comair pilots, they have a backbone AND heart.

Get a heart.
FM
 

Marko Ramius

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It is excellent that the Comair MEC is helping out the pilots at the UsAirways Express carriers. It's the right thing to do. That said, Becket does raise some good points. Comair's MEC hasn't lifted a finger for any of the other carriers that supported them during their strike. When I raised these questions a few months ago on these boards, I was told that Comair's MEC didn't get involved with who the company hires, had no power to do so, so why bother trying. Funny how none of that stuff applies in this UsAirways WO situation, isn't it? My opinion is that this is likely politically motivated. The Comair MEC throwing their weight behind the volatile scope situation at UsAirways, throws a nice bone to the RJDC supporters and make the OH pilots feel like they are fighting the good fight. Politics ends up shafting a lot of people, but at least some pilots should be able to take advantage of them in this case, which is good for them.
 

FLYnMONKEYS

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This isn't a message from the Comair MEC supporting USAir Express. I you think it is you're a fool.

This is a message to DAL. Comair's MEC doesn't want this type of thing happening there with DAL pilots.
 

becket

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Familyman,

Spend 15 years as a professional pilot and then come talk to me. A private liscense does not really qualify you to make serioius judgments on scope and airline issues. BTW, before you go off and start quoting airline economics to explain why I'm an idiot just remember this. If there was a flow through agreement between comair and Delta, You can bet your life that Comair would be SILENT on this issue and would be doing all they could to promote mainline growth. Total Hipocisy. The RJDC would not exist if there was a flow thru. Period. So when you say this is just pilots helping pilots remember that loyalties change directly with ones own pilot groups interests. Call me negetive whatever it's just the simple facts.
 

surplus1

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becket said:
Familyman,

Spend 15 years as a professional pilot and then come talk to me. A private liscense does not really qualify you to make serioius judgments on scope and airline issues. BTW, before you go off and start quoting airline economics to explain why I'm an idiot just remember this. If there was a flow through agreement between comair and Delta, You can bet your life that Comair would be SILENT on this issue and would be doing all they could to promote mainline growth. Total Hipocisy. The RJDC would not exist if there was a flow thru. Period. So when you say this is just pilots helping pilots remember that loyalties change directly with ones own pilot groups interests. Call me negetive whatever it's just the simple facts.

The simple fact is becket, you just don't know what you're talking about.

First off you can quit flaunting you 15 years as a professional pilot and act like one. I'm one of the regional pukes that can double that with no problem. If you want to come across as professional, start by not talking down to other airmen. Don't demean another person because he has a private license. It's high time you people figured out that the only one that thinks you're God's give to aviation is yourself.

Apparently you didn't get very informed during your 15 years of whatever. You may be able to blow smoke up some people on this board and impress others, but not all of us.

Your flow-through comment is as riduculous as the rest of your remarks. Comair pilots have been telling Delta pilots that we are not interested in your flow-through ideas for more than 10 years. Probably before you even became a Delta pilot.

Just so you get it straight, we've told you repeatedly that we're not interested in a flow-thorugh to you. What part don't you understand? Is it the F or the N?

When you want to talk to Comair pilots recognize that you're talking to equals. If you can't deflate your unfounded ego enough to do that and speak in a civil tongue, then don't bother to talk at all.

The hypocrisy is resident in your attitude. You think you're a lot more important than you really are. Get over it.

You pushed my button. If there's anything I can't stand its a prima donna in a pilot suit.
 
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Slim

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Beckett,

You are way off base with your statement on flowthrough.

In other threads, I have consistently said that flowthrough is not a solution. Like a poster in another thread stated, I wish Comair was not owned by DAL. Flowthrough, as we know it via the CAL/CALEX and AA/AE models, is unacceptable.

My reason is the seniority of a new hire pilot at Comair IS NOT the fringe benefit of a mainline pilot. I was an AMR employee when flowthrough was created and saw it for what it was...job security for a junior AA pilot at the expense of an AE captain who was senior to the AA pilot by DOH. The junior AE pilot also pays for the AA pilot's job at AE by being furloughed. That's unacceptable! The CAL/CALEX flowthrough seems a little more palatable, but not by much.

Rumor has it the DALPA offered the CMR/ASA MECs a flowthrough and both MECs turned down the offer. If true, the CMR MEC did what I, and several other CMR pilots told them too...say no thanks to a flowthrough offer. Before you ask, no, I did not come to CMR with the belief there would be a flow through or with aspirations of becoming a DAL pilot.

Fly safe!
 

skydiverdriver

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Beckett,
You are correct that some Comair pilots paid for training. However, I have met a lot of them, and they are much nicer to fly with than you must be. YOU should have supported the USAirways wholly owned airlines many years ago, and now it is coming back to bite you. The USAirways corporate stock reports in the early 90's credited their wholly owned regionals with keeping the company from going under. So, yes, you do owe them your job.

Good luck to you sir.
 

FlyComAirJets

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Beckett,

By all accounts, the concept of a flow through was brought up and summarily rejected YEARS ago. Perhaps with your fifteen years of accrued knowledge you can explain why at present there is not a single ALPA mainline carrier that has a flowthrough agreement with an ALPA regional partner (wholly owned or otherwise).

This August, I will be able to show you my 20 year ALPA pin. I paid my Continental and Eastern assessments. You can bet your sweet backside I honored their picket lines. Those Eastern pilots strike pay was greater than what I was making as a Saab captain!

And you can bet I am donating money to my furloughed brothers and sisters at Delta.

Delta MEC
Airline Pilots Association
Attn: Delta Pilots Furlough/Emergency Relief Fund
P.O. Box 82232
Atlanta, Ga. 30354-0232

Give generously ... and often.:cool:
 

LAPD Airship

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We at CAL/CALEX have seen the good and the bad of FTA's (Flow Through Agreements). Despite the negative effect that our current FTA has had on our junior pilots at CALEX, the FTA we have in place is better than nothing, and re-upping the FTA this next contract negotiations is wanted by over 70% of our pilots.

This is mainly to continue the movement of our senior pilots off the top of our seniority list and into major airline jobs.

ALPA is way behind the curve on RJ's as have been many mainline pilot unions. CAL pilots have realized this entirely too late.

If guys want to fly CRJs for the rest of their lives at Comair...fine. I don't. All jet aircraft, seat numbers notwithstanding, should be flown by mainline carriers with mainline work rules and pay scales, period.

These issues are not simple, and sometimes too easily simplified. From what I have seen of what is going on at the USAir code shares, it is very much unfair, while becket makes some good points, mainline pilots have dropped the ball on the RJ issues. Ask any CAL pilot who is seeing CALEX grow 26% a year and now mainline Continental flying less block hours today than they did in 1998.

RJ's = WSCOD (whistling shi* cans of death)

If it ain't a Boeing, I ain't goin.
 

FlyComAirJets

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LAPDAirship

You wrote, "Despite the negative effect that our current FTA has had on our junior pilots at CALEX, the FTA we have in place is better than nothing, and re-upping the FTA this next contract negotiations is wanted by over 70% of our pilots."

You speak of the Flow Through Agreement in the present tense, in fact, hasn't it been terminated by management?
 

FlyingSig

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FlyComAirJets said:
You speak of the Flow Through Agreement in the present tense, in fact, hasn't it been terminated by management?

I believe the recent IPO did not sell off the required 51% of the company to terminate the FTA, therefore it still exists.

With that said, I do beleive there are plans to sell off more of XJet that will push it over the edge.



p.s. To FlyComAirJets.... Thank you very much for donating to the Delta MEC furlough/emergency fund! I haven't had the need for it personally, but I know that to date the fund has distributed over $305,000 to furloughed pilots families and has gone to pay for mortgage payments to prevent forclosure, kept kids in college, and put food on the table. Again, Thank you.
 
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ATRCA

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The flow-thru here at Calex is dead for now. I personally am glad to see it go. Our flow thru is at a one to three ratio. So if your number 2000 on the Express list, than CAL has to hire 6000 pilots to get to you. In the mean time your position at CALEX is basically being held for a CAL pilot in the event CAL reduces its force. NOT A GOOD DEAL!

I would personally rather handle my own career progression and not have an agreement that gives my job to a pilot who has never worked for my company while I go home and wait for his company to recall him. NO THANKS.

If you want to work for a major than go ahead and except the fact that you will be on the bottom of their list. You have no right to be on the top of my list if your company decides it no longer needs your services.

Now if you would like to offer me a position on your list, than maybee we could discuss this. Otherwise take a hike, and I'll interview and obtain my job the way everyone else did and except the fact thay my new position is a precarious one.
 

FlyDeltasJets

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FlyCOmairJets,

We have had our differences, but please allow me to add my thanks for your contribution to our furloughed pilot fund. I have no needed to avail myself of a loan from it yet, but it is nice to know it is there, and it has helped many of my fellow furloughees.

Even though we disagree on many things, you have my gratitude for your generosity.

Thanks.
 

FlyComAirJets

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FlyDeltasJets,

It may be a surprise but hopefully not a big one because we are all in the same boat. Where that boat is headed seems to be the bone of contention.

Getting the furloughees back in the air should be OUR union's number one priority.

Keeping the dogs from the furloughees' door should be each working pilot's moral obligation.

Whatever you do, don't be silent. Don't be out of sight, out of mind. That is the power of the internet, it makes sure that everyone's voice is heard.
 

skydiverdriver

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LAPD Airship says:

If guys want to fly CRJs for the rest of their lives at Comair...fine. I don't. All jet aircraft, seat numbers notwithstanding, should be flown by mainline carriers with mainline work rules and pay scales, period.

.....Isn't this a contradictory statement? Should Comair pilots stay at Comair, making mainline wages with mainline work rules? Isn't that what we are fighting for?
 

LAPD Airship

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FlyComAirJets said:
LAPDAirship

You speak of the Flow Through Agreement in the present tense, in fact, hasn't it been terminated by management?

Nope. Not yet.
 
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