comair growth

[Nindiri]

So why are you complaining?

 

[brvopilot]

I'm started to get a little annoyed at those people who think that Comair has not hired any Delta furloughees, which is not true at all. I recently spoke to a HR representative who has indicated that we have actually lately hired quite a few. We may not have done it as quickly as some would have liked. But it has been done...this point needs to be dropped!

 

[standaman]

What don't I get, why wouldn't we get the 12??? We also lost 7 ATR's, we're in the negative...Comair's in the positive. We didn't agree to pay freezes for growth and we won awards for more airplanes (along with Skywest and CHQ) not Comair. I'm relaxed Thanks!

How about spreading the wealth alittle. It is my opinion that it is okay to give to all the DCI carriers. Else we get into an ugly bidding war. If we aren't doing that already.

 

[NickASA]

Then why do all of the Delta boys say that you guys refused to hire them, secondly that your captains will never get a delta interview should they hire again. You guys might have a few of the Delta pilots over there but intially comair was going to make them resign their Delta number which was the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. You people think you're some big airline but in reality you're just another commuter/regional, just like the rest of us. Get over it.

I'm started to get a little annoyed at those people who think that Comair has not hired any Delta furloughees, which is not true at all. I recently spoke to a HR representative who has indicated that we have actually lately hired quite a few. We may not have done it as quickly as some would have liked. But it has been done...this point needs to be dropped!

 

[Texx]

That's funny, I just did some training with someone who claimed to be a furloughed Delta Pilot; he must have been a liar. Jacka**

I think it went this way... No we are not going to hire DAL furloughs.

Not until after DAL guys applied the heat, and JC was running around with his tail between his legs, did CMR start to pick up DAL guys.

 

[V-1]

Forgive me, for I don't post much on these boards anymore...probably due to the overabundance of these types of threads, but I have only one quick question, then I'll leave the children to fight some more...we all need to have lives outside our profession, after all.

Prior to the mess Delta has created for itself, had a Comair pilot been furloughed, would that Comair pilot have been offered a job flying for Delta? With or without the option to retain his/her seniority number?

Delta's ALPA leadership had the opportunity to support integration of the Comair/ASA/Delta seniority lists. ALPA apparently supports the idea that Delta, ASA, and Comair are seperate companies. If the union these pilot groups collectively support believes that ASA pilots, Delta pilots, and Comair pilots are seperate, why should pilots from these airlines direct their frustrations towards one another. It would seem their union leadership would be a more appropriate target.

All three companies involved, as well as the ALPA believe Delta, Comair and ASA are seperate companies. When a pilot leaves a company to pursue employment at another ALPA carrier, that pilot leaves with the understanding that they resign their seniority number. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Comair recently had a Captain whose resignation from the company was very publicly announced. The company, for some as yet unknown reason, placed that pilot back into the seniority liist. The union leadership is protesting this...supporting the basic premise that once a pilot resigns, should that pilot seek reemployment, that pilot should take their place at the bottom of the seniority list.

Sure the ASA union leadership has created some goodwill by "sucking up" to furloughed Delta pilots (who I wish the best for, though I'm sure they're all well-qualified to perform any number of jobs to support themselves and their families), but if Delta pilots believe they are not Comair pilots, or ASA pilots, why should Comair or ASA pilots believe they are Delta pilots? Those Comair and ASA pilots who tell people they fly for Delta are either doing it to avoid a long explanation of Delta's corporate structure, or they do it because the status they feel they derive from being a "Delta Pilot" balances other weaknesses in their personality.

Over the last four years, I can't recall a single Comair Captain who was hired by Delta anyway. I can't even remember hearing a single one say he/she was actively pursuing employment with Delta. All who have a desire to leave are pursuing better opportunities.

Carry on now, my union brothers. Best wishes for all of us while we're waiting for the dust to settle.

 

[Plug]

Forgive me, for I don't post much on these boards anymore...probably due to the overabundance of these types of threads, but I have only one quick question, then I'll leave the children to fight some more...we all need to have lives outside our profession, after all.

Prior to the mess Delta has created for itself, had a Comair pilot been furloughed, would that Comair pilot have been offered a job flying for Delta? With or without the option to retain his/her seniority number?

Delta's ALPA leadership had the opportunity to support integration of the Comair/ASA/Delta seniority lists. ALPA apparently supports the idea that Delta, ASA, and Comair are seperate companies. If the union these pilot groups collectively support believes that ASA pilots, Delta pilots, and Comair pilots are seperate, why should pilots from these airlines direct their frustrations towards one another. It would seem their union leadership would be a more appropriate target.

All three companies involved, as well as the ALPA believe Delta, Comair and ASA are seperate companies. When a pilot leaves a company to pursue employment at another ALPA carrier, that pilot leaves with the understanding that they resign their seniority number. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Comair recently had a Captain whose resignation from the company was very publicly announced. The company, for some as yet unknown reason, placed that pilot back into the seniority liist. The union leadership is protesting this...supporting the basic premise that once a pilot resigns, should that pilot seek reemployment, that pilot should take their place at the bottom of the seniority list.

Sure the ASA union leadership has created some goodwill by "sucking up" to furloughed Delta pilots (who I wish the best for, though I'm sure they're all well-qualified to perform any number of jobs to support themselves and their families), but if Delta pilots believe they are not Comair pilots, or ASA pilots, why should Comair or ASA pilots believe they are Delta pilots? Those Comair and ASA pilots who tell people they fly for Delta are either doing it to avoid a long explanation of Delta's corporate structure, or they do it because the status they feel they derive from being a "Delta Pilot" balances other weaknesses in their personality.

Over the last four years, I can't recall a single Comair Captain who was hired by Delta anyway. I can't even remember hearing a single one say he/she was actively pursuing employment with Delta. All who have a desire to leave are pursuing better opportunities.

Carry on now, my union brothers. Best wishes for all of us while we're waiting for the dust to settle.

Not that I actually expect a response from the RJDC but we have been over this, let it die dude. Do you people take any opportunity possible to bring up RJDC issues with the PID in 2000? I have never met a bigger group of "Nepoleons" like the CMR pilots. You think you are so much bigger, better, and entitled to things that simply aren't yours. Grow up, you are a feeder carrier for Delta Air Lines, the quicker you come to grips with what you really are the happier you'll be in life.

And since you want to bring up issues of one carrier affecting another carrier, how about you guys taking a pay freeze for growth which not only impacted our (ASA) bargaining position but is now leading to assets being transferred from us to you to comply with your agreement. Yeah we are getting GECAS airplanes, but it isn't a 1 for 1 exchange and we have no spare airplanes as is. Thanks a bunch, can I sue you?

Take your argument elsewhere because you ahve no room to talk. The Delta pilots were looking out for their own in 2000 and the CMR pilots were looking out for their own in 2005.

 

[JI Gone OH]

I think it went this way... No we are not going to hire DAL furloughs.

Not until after DAL guys applied the heat, and JC was running around with his tail between his legs, did CMR start to pick up DAL guys.

You think wrong, Texx. First of all, saying that Comair wasn't going to hire DAL furloughs is absolute bullsh*t, but for some reason I think you already know that. No matter how many times you tell yourself that or type it on this board for everyone to see, the truth isn't going to change. Second, even if that were the case, the fact is we now have several Delta guys flying for us, it's great to have them on board, and therefore you, the general, and everyone else that like to rant on and on about how Comair won't hire furloughed Delta pilots really need to put a sock in it. Give it up already, would 'ya...

 

[Texx]

1. Prior to the mess Delta has created for itself, had a Comair pilot been furloughed, would that Comair pilot have been offered a job flying for Delta? With or without the option to retain his/her seniority number?

2...When a pilot leaves a company to pursue employment at another ALPA carrier, that pilot leaves with the understanding that they resign their seniority number. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

3. Sure the ASA union leadership has created some goodwill by "sucking up" to furloughed Delta pilots ...

Ah, where should I begin.

1. DAL HR would make that call, not the DAL pilots. Now would DAL pilots have supported that move? As for the seniority number, once again HR.

2. Mute point that you have made. The DAL pilots did not "leave to pursue employment at another ALPA carrier." The DAL management furloughed them. So they did not have to give up their number.

3. "Sucking Up." The ASA management made a wise choice to interview and hire DAL furloughed pilots. Most of them were ex ASA pilots. The ASA MEC and most if not all the ASA pilots supported this decision by ASA management.

So I have a question for you. What caused or why did the DAL MEC secure a minimum of 25% of total DL flying for ASA and CMR? Could it have been from the relationship of JC and the CMR pilots? Or more likely that the ASA relationship, or as you have put it "sucking up", actually works?

If I were to guess you're still mad that DAL bought CMR. Well sit tight because you guys will be in the same boat as ASA. Yes the word out is that MESA is in the process of due diligence.

 

[Texx]

... First of all, saying that Comair wasn't going to hire DAL furloughs is absolute bullsh*t, but for some reason I think you already know that.

The position that CMR took was that if they were to hire these said DAL pilots that when they were recalled it would have caused a shortage of pilots at CMR and increased training costs. What I know is what your JC was speaking.

 

[chperplt]

Doesn't look like you're "thebest" at anything except blabbering... Enjoy being JOs puppet.

 

[standaman]

You got it right Mary, I am the best! You just sit you're sweet little A$$ down and watch it all happen! The Best....say hello to my new biatch---->chperplt

Now that is one of the best comebacks I think I have every seen. Get a life dude

 

[chperplt]

You got it right Mary, I am the best! You just sit you're sweet little A$$ down and watch it all happen! The Best....say hello to my new biatch---->chperplt

LOL... This guys great.. Should be in the comedy store!

 

[JI Gone OH]

The position that CMR took was that if they were to hire these said DAL pilots that when they were recalled it would have caused a shortage of pilots at CMR and increased training costs. What I know is what your JC was speaking.

Wrong again, Texx. The issue was with resigning seniority. Comair's policy has always been that pilots must give up their number at their current employer prior to being offered a job at Comair. I had to do it, as did the other 1800 pilots here. That created heartburn with some of the Delta boys, as they felt as though they were for some reason above having to do that. Comair, Inc. was simply enforcing Comair policy. Quit blaming JC, the RJDC, and the "unruly" Comair pilot group, because you [and so many others] are barking up the wrong tree. The pilot shortages you speak of would have been a secondary consequence had they not been required to give up their seniority, and Comair, Inc. was smart enough to recognize that. It's not rocket science.....

 

[ThisistheDream]

I know at least 10 pilots maybe more that have been at Comair for 2-3 years now that got hired at comair while being furloughed from another 121 carrier and they never gave up thier seniority with the other carrier and now some of those pilots are getting recalled and leaving comair to go back to the airline that furloughed them. Comair has a weak policy in regards to making you to resign seniority if you are furloughed from another carrier, some weeks they enforce it, some weeks they dont. my advice dont do anything until they say to. makes no sense that comair hires way overqualified pilots that leave with in 6 months to go to SWA, FEDEX, but they dont want a guy to fly at comair for 3 years who is furloughed and then leave to go back to the job they wanted.

 

[chperplt]

Not that I had any intention of going to back to my previous carrier, but I was asked during the 1st day of company orientation to give them a copy of the letter.

The HR lady at the time said they would be sending it to the previous company to make sure they had a copy.

 

[N813CA]

Its up to your previous company if they want to listen to the letter or not. If your old company calls you up and asks if you want to return, than Comair can't stop it no matter what. The pilot just quits and goes back. SO DELTA if your HR Calls you than it doesn't matter.

 

[FDJ2]

Wrong again, Texx. The issue was with resigning seniority. Comair's policy has always been that pilots must give up their number at their current employer prior to being offered a job at Comair. ...

Was that a policy supported by the CMR MEC?

If so what was the CMR MEC's justification for supporting a policy that would deny fellow ALPA pilots recall rights?

What is the current CMR MEC position on this matter? Has it changed and if so, when?


Here's a nostalgic post/response on the subject:

12-06-2002, 16:00 #1

snowback

Registered User

DAL MEC meets Comair MEC

From a recent DALPA Code-a phone message

Item two. At its October meeting, the (Delta) MEC passed a resolution directing the MEC Chairman to meet with the Comair MEC to pursue a reciprocal preferential hiring policy for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair and for Comair pilots at Delta. This week, MEC Chairman Capt. Will Buergey met with the Comair MEC Chairman in Cincinnati to discuss this issue further. The Comair MEC Chairman stated that his MEC administration does not support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. ASA management, at the ASA MEC’s request, has already hired furloughed Delta pilots, who start at the bottom of the airline’s seniority list and retain their recall rights at Delta.



12-06-2002, 16:13 #2

ACE

Registered User




It's not going to happen. Comair management and the Comair pilot group do not want the Delta pilots to come over and work with us. The only way it could happen is if Delta management says too take the Delta pilots. The Comair pilots are ready to cause chaos if we are made to do this against our will. I do not want to see any Delta pilot furloughed, but for them to come to Comair is a conflict of interest. For all you Delta pilots, you guys can call me an ass all you want for saying this, but it is fact.

 

[Texx]

The Comair MEC Chairman stated that his MEC administration does not support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. ASA management, at the ASA MEC’s request, has already hired furloughed Delta pilots, who start at the bottom of the airline’s seniority list and retain their recall rights at Delta.



12-06-2002, 16:13 #2

ACE

Registered User


It's not going to happen. Comair management and the Comair pilot group do not want the Delta pilots to come over and work with us. The only way it could happen is if Delta management says too take the Delta pilots. The Comair pilots are ready to cause chaos if we are made to do this against our will. I do not want to see any Delta pilot furloughed, but for them to come to Comair is a conflict of interest. For all you Delta pilots, you guys can call me an ass all you want for saying this, but it is fact.

Thank you for the post.

 

[bvt1151]

Poor Delta pilots. If they don't have an enemy, they'll make one up.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Was that a policy supported by the CMR MEC?

The CMR MEC doesn't create, enforce, or institute Comair, INC. policy. Never has, and never will. FDJ2, if you really want to work here that bad, PM me your stuff and I'll get it in the right hands for consideration. ;-)

 

[FDJ2]

The CMR MEC doesn't create, enforce, or institute Comair, INC. policy. Never has, and never will.

Nice job of dodging the questions. Try answering them next time.

Was that a policy supported by the CMR MEC?

If so what was the CMR MEC's justification for supporting a policy that would deny fellow ALPA pilots recall rights?

What is the current CMR MEC position on this matter? Has it changed and if so, when?

 

[skyslug]

I believe that it was our MEC's "policy" for what it's worth that we "agreed" with managements policy of requiring one to give up one's seniority number upon hiring at Comair. I also believe that this was our MEC's "policy" due in part to the animosity between our MEC and DAL's MEC.

This has since changed. Our MEC drafted some sort of document (again, for what it's worth) encouraging our MGT to allow the hiring of DAL furloughees without resignation of their seniority number. Goodwill? Political? Whatever...it was done about 2 years or so ago.

So this "policy" has thus changed.

We've got many UAL, TWA, Airways pilots here. Whether our company or not has followed through on the "policy" of seniority resignation is not known but I can attest to the professionalism of flying with these people. They're great to fly with and I for one am glad they're here. I would also look forwared to flying with a DAL person.

 

[JI Gone OH]

Nice job of dodging the questions. Try answering them next time.

Was that a policy supported by the CMR MEC?

If so what was the CMR MEC's justification for supporting a policy that would deny fellow ALPA pilots recall rights?

What is the current CMR MEC position on this matter? Has it changed and if so, when?

I can't speak for the M.E.C. What I can tell you is that in spite of what your M.E.C. wants you to believe, a VAST majority of the pilot group here at Comair wants [and has since day 1] to bring on as many furloughed Delta pilots as we can. There are unquestionalbly a few here that don't share the same opinion as I do, and I continue to respect that.

Do I personally agree with Comair policy in that one must give up there seniority at their previous company? Not really, but I can't change it, and either can our M.E.C. You [and everyone else who is anti-Comair] need to quit blaming me, the CMR M.E.C., the RJDC, and this pilot group for Comair, Inc. enforcing Comair policy.

There you have it, and I only speak for myself. Now, where is your stuff? I hear we have a class we need to fill for later this month...

 

[General Lee]

I can't speak for the M.E.C. What I can tell you is that in spite of what your M.E.C. wants you to believe, a VAST majority of the pilot group here at Comair wants [and has since day 1] to bring on as many furloughed Delta pilots as we can. There are unquestionalbly a few here that don't share the same opinion as I do, and I continue to respect that.

Do I personally agree with Comair policy in that one must give up there seniority at their previous company? Not really, but I can't change it, and either can our M.E.C. You [and everyone else who is anti-Comair] need to quit blaming me, the CMR M.E.C., the RJDC, and this pilot group for Comair, Inc. enforcing Comair policy.

There you have it, and I only speak for myself. Now, where is your stuff? I hear we have a class we need to fill for later this month...

Really? Well, those few guys are really making the rest of you look like chumps. That is not good for you as a group, or really individually. The ASA pilots didn't seem to mind and most also wanted to help, and their MEC leadership did not put up a big protest, or ASK for anything in return. That will be remembered most. They didn't throw up a road block. And, why would our MEC single out Comair and not ASA? Was there an agenda to only show Comair pilots in a bad light, and not the ASA guys? Sounds like maybe your guys were the "bad guys." Otherwise, both groups would have been labeled "mean people."


Bye bye--General Lee

 

[AAv8r]

I'm just curious as to who the guy was that said he was a Delta 737 FO that was in my new hire class. He must just be looking to stir the pot. Then again he was flying back and forth to his home on his Delta senority number. I must have just not understood him when he said that he was furloughed from Delta.

 

[JI Gone OH]

I must have just not understood him when he said that he was furloughed from Delta.

It's just so confusing isn't it. I mean there is no way we would have taken a furloughed Delta guy here, right, because eventually he is going to get called back and we will all be junior manned to pick up those extra hours until we can train his replacement.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

Do the ASA pilots feel funny flying the GE jets they got in their place??

Um, no, my a$$ isn't sore from bending over either. BTW,I saw those fancy handprints on that -700 the other day. I guess thats where you put your hands when ole' Freddie showed up and bent you over.

 

[Nindiri]

I suspect the Comair pilots will take the silly insults a little more serious when some of the big talkers from other airlines grow a set and stand up to their own management.

 

[chperplt]

Um, no, my a$$ isn't sore from bending over either. BTW,I saw those fancy handprints on that -700 the other day. I guess thats where you put your hands when ole' Freddie showed up and bent you over.

180

I don't think Fred is bending over the CMR pilots anymore than Skip is bending your pilot groups happy ass over.

How long ago were you looking to get a new contract? Don't blame the CMR group for taking care of themselves. They held out as long as they could for you guys to get your contract done in the hopes that they wouldn't have to take a freeze.

If anyone has failed anyone, it is the ASA pilots who failed the CMR pilots. You guys failed to get your contract done and now you blame CMR instead of yourselves...or heaven sakes your management team.